ASN vs. BSN - page 2

it is becoming more and more popular to eliminate the associate degree nursing programs (asn-rn). do you think that is right? do you feel that a four year degree (bsn) should be the minimum... Read More

  1. by   UVA Grad Nursing
    Here is my state, I have seen two diploma programs transition to BSN programs.

    No ADN programs have closed, but several have deceased the size of their entering classes temporarily because of the slowdown in hiring of new graduates and difficulty in finding clinical faculty. One local CC program reduced the size of their entering class from 70 to 50 this fall.
  2. by   muesli
    Quote from sjfields
    I have a question..I am looking into getting into the field of nursing, quickly. I already have a bachelors in psychology. Would it make sense for me to get an associates to become an RN? I'm trying to figure out the smartest route to become one.
    It depends what the hiring situation is like in your state (it's rough most everywhere for new grads regardless of degree type), how much you're willing to spend, and what your career goals are. You may be able to find accelerated programs out there for BSNs or MSNs since you already have a Bachelors. You also may find getting an ASN is faster for you than for others if you have already completed some of the pre requisites in your previous degree. If you plan on advancing to management, advanced practice (master's) nursing or getting your NP (which will require a doctorate before long), you'd be better served I think going into an accelerated BSN/MSN track, which of course is crazy more expensive than an Associate's Degree and not worth it IMHO if your only passion is bedside nursing.
  3. by   caliotter3
    I agree that the BSN should be the minimum entry for professional nursing, but do not believe that the ASN should be eliminated. Instead, I go along with the proposal to upgrade the LPN level of education to the ASN for the "technical" (or another suitable title) nurse level.
  4. by   caliotter3
    One of the problems with having an ASN is the possibility of working for an employer that decides to give the ultimatum for obtaining a BSN. I would not want to have that pressure if I could avoid it by getting a BSN in the first place. But other than for job security, I totally agree with what JustinT said in his post. My BSN program was literally worthless to me. A diploma program like in the old days would have been much more helpful for job competence.
  5. by   MissJulie
    All levels of nursing, ranging from CNA to Ph. D. are alive and well in Kentucky! There are bridge programs for LPN to ADN, ADN to BSN, BSN to MSN, and even ADN to MSN. One school even has Paramedic to ADN! Around here, an RN is an RN, regardless...
  6. by   Byrnowt
    There are too many levels in nursing not seen in other professions.
    Raising the basic requirement to a BSN will not magically turn nurses
    into professionals. Having a clear definition of the role will.
    Something as simple as having a specific uniform will help distinguish
    nurses from everyone else now wearing scrubs.
    Until nurses stop doing minor housekeeping, filling in for unit secretaries,
    going on equipment hunts, transporting patients, being a waitress
    to families of patients etc., they will continue to be seen as servants.
    The title Registered Nurse could be reserved solely for those
    at the bedside, with an ADN. Stop LVN training. Persons who
    don't want the 2+ years of study can become medical assistants.
    I have worked with excellent LVN's, who owed it to themselves
    to pursue the RN anyway since there is little variation in roles.
    BSN's could use their initials after the title but omit the 'RN'
    unless you are in direct patient care. I know many will disagree,
    but changes have to be made if nurses want the respect they deserve.
    I call myself an ADN now that I no longer do direct pt. care.
    I would rather leave nursing altogether and get my bachelor's
    in another field than waste the time and money on a BSN.
    That would be a menial return on my investment.
  7. by   DAL2010
    Purdue North Central (part of Purdue University) has phased out its ASN and now only offers BSN. However, it is now not fully accredited because BSN programs require more educators with higher degrees (masters & doctorates) to teach the classes, and PNC does not have the appropriate numbers of highly-qualified educators. So, hospitals in this area prefer to hire the ASNs out of Ivy Tech because they have a reputation of graduating "floor ready" which is what hospitals need nurses to be.
  8. by   APN Under Construction
    In most facilities in Texas, Rns are paid the same regardless of degree
  9. by   blondesareeasy
    Well said, JustinTRN.

    Nursing is a job. If you punch a clock and are taking 30 minute lunches, you have a job.

    A profession however comes with autonomy and independent choices and decisions.

    Like it or not, nursing will never become a profession as long as nurses allow themselves to be pushed to the extremes. Introducing silly, yes silly ideas as making a Bachelors Degree the only option to pass meds, wipe ass, suction patients, and TAKE and FOLLOW and CARRY OUT orders does not require a higher degree. Indeed, diploma nurses are working out just fine, no degree required.

    Consistently, Associate Degree nurses have higher pass rates on NCLEX than Bachelors. Bachelor degree nurses are "rewarded" with approximately $1000 PER YEAR higher salaries than Associates, and are lacking in the necessary skills and hands-on knowledge that is required at the lowly bedside.

    Indeed, elevating nurses self-worth and importance by stating that a higher degree will allow you to advance beyond working at the bedside says nothing to support the true nurse philosophy; taking care of patients.

    The industry is one of labour. Hard, bedside labour, enduring physical, mental, and emotional abuse from the lack of respect from the customer and their friends and relatives. Not to mention a nurses own co-workers who continually play the "I'm better than you" game with a lack of consideration for new nurses. And when a nurse states, "Doctor, I'm sorry to bother you but..." nothing has been accomplished professionally.

    Fight for more respect, but realize this is only a daily job with less benefits, retirement, and worse healthcare coverage than the people you take care of.

    A nursing career is pathetic. Rewarding maybe, but pathetic.
  10. by   MrChicagoRN
    Quote from blondesareeasy

    Consistently, Associate Degree nurses have higher pass rates on NCLEX than Bachelors. Bachelor degree nurses are "rewarded" with approximately $1000 PER YEAR higher salaries than Associates, and are lacking in the necessary skills and hands-on knowledge that is required at the lowly bedside.
    Claims have been made by both camps.

    Do you have data to support your view regarding pass rates and skills? Does the ADN really have greater hands-on skills upon entry?

    According to this site, BSN students have a higher pass rate than ADN, but diploma grads beat them both! (scroll to the bottom)
  11. by   HoosierJumper
    I am from the same area as you (I would suspect since I am a commuter at VU) and I completely disagree. I know many CNO's, nursing directors and a CEO of a hospital and they find most IVY tech students under qualified compared to students who received their degree at a University. However, going to the issue of whether ASN programs should be cut, I think it should. If we want to be looked at as professionals in our field higher level of education is needed. With the advancement in technology and the roles of nurses changing there is a need for a nurse who has a higher critical thinking and strives to be a life long learner. Whether we like to admit it or not, society often views nurses as people who were not smart enough to go through and be a physician. If you don't believe me on this, watch Gray's Anatomy (One Dr. tried dating a nurse and was constantly made fun of because she was dating a "nurse"). I often times even find myself defending my career choice on why I choice being a RN over a Dr. While I disagree with this, it is an imagine that has been on our field for years. Making this a BSN program is going to not only promote the fact that being a nurse requires highly educated professionals in our field but also weed out those who truly don't want to be nurses. If someone is doing it for the money a 2 year degree is easy to obtain compared to a 4 year degree.
  12. by   libran1984
    At Hoosierjumper- that is ridiculous to think an ASN is less apt to "critically" think or that a BSN program gives you the education needed to work with such advancing technology over an ASN. I know so many RNs of varying education that never do much as put a foley into a live person prior to graduating- let's work on the basics before we tote about advancements in technology and even begin to correlate that to higher education.

    Why would anyone ever think an ASN RN isn't a lifelong learner? Many people in this world despise formalized education and test taking. This, by no means, infers that the nurse is not continually learning nor actively seeking new skills and better evidenced based practices.

    In addition, to even cite a bunch of trite hogwash as Grey's Anatomy to emphasize a point is asinine.

    Ivy Tech's "2 year degree " is a minimum of 3 years and generally accomplished in 4 years due to stiff competition, and the order in which prereqs are required to be taken.

    The great thing about registered nursing are all the other professions that bridge into it like practical nursing and paramedics.

    Then finally to just make a, perhaps, unnecessary point, but one that has greatly humored me the last 2 weeks; during my ACLS recertification, I did multiple mega codes with an NP at my side who was highly educated, very smart but she kept wanting to shock PEA. Now, does that really reassure a pt if they had been an onlooker and understood what PEA is? Perhaps, the take away would be a much more highly educated NP can write a thesis on diabetes and research practices regarding diabetes, but as an ASN with a specialty the ASN can be equally or more effective than one with a "higher education".

    Regarding employment... To each his own.
  13. by   dstep102570
    Most hospitals are starting to require RNs to obtain their BSN. That's why I am starting the RN-BSN program next month.