Mass application vs Eggs in a Basket Approach

William_SRNA · Aug 14, 2005

Well that's good to know I still cannot imagine asking someone for a reference. Heck, I was too shy to ask people to even sign my year books in school. As to the school that had 240 applicants that is precisely why schools should have more of a "looking glass" policy when it comes to their admission standards. For example if I knew that the schools I were interested in only accepted 22 out of 240, I would be much more inclined to apply to more schools than if I thought they would be getting say 40 for those spots. Keep in mind that most of our cogitations apply to the "borderline" applicant. Those with high GPA's, years of CC experience, and good GRE scores will tend to get in even with a small number of applications. It's no great challenge to find a date for Tom Cruise or Tom Hanks that goes well. However, setting Danny Devito (without his money or fame) up on a date with a model that ends in a marriage is much more of a challenge and requires far more deliberation, cunning, and calculation.
I've stated before and firmly believe that some schools tend to have higher average GPA's and lower applicant to accepted applicant ratios than do others. For example, I would wager that the schools in Penn, and Tenn as a whole receive fewer applicants per slot than say the schools in California. Also, I bet that the classes that start in the Winter/Spring receive fewer applicants than those which start in the fall (since more people will tend to graduate in the Spring, and thus hit their one to two years CC experience level in the Spring). I would also suppose that schools which have a 24 month program tend to get more applicants than those which require say 30 months to graduate. Also, those schools which require less Chemistry, and don't require Physics, and or the GRE probably get a few, fewer applicants per open slot (keep in mind for example that there are those with high GPA's who don't do well on standardized tests for whatever reason). All of these factors (and probably many others) can be considered and potentially utilized to give "Danny Devito" a better chance of finding love.

All schools are seeing massive amounts of applicants and it ain't getting any better. I didn't get an interview at Newman University because of the competitive nature. I do believe that schools which have higher "requirements" like upper level chem and physics will get less applicants, but those schools are just as competitve. Even getting an interview does not mean acceptance. Had that happen twice before I was accepted. My advice sit down and decide what you want and go from there. Also remember not all schools offer the same degree some offer a MSN while others a MSNA, and atleast one offers a Master's in HCA.

DSAC · Aug 14, 2005

I would tend to say you are partially correct with your analysis on most schools and there acceptance procedures. Schools are looking for nurses that will be successful in their program, and pass the certification exam. With that said, there are a few schools that actually look at the individual, other than just grades and scores alone. I have seen and talked with people that were incredible canidates as far as grades and scores went, but did not even get an interview. They lost out to others with lower grades and scores, but more experience and better references. I will tell you that your "booksmart" nurses are not always your best nurses. Believe it or not, personality, attitude, and willingness to learn are what tend to make your better nurses. With all of that said, do the best you can in school, to increase your chances.

I can tell you that, I did alright in school, but not as good as I could have or should have. I feel that my experience and desire to do whatever it takes to get in school is what separated me from others with better grades. I retook a couple of classes and applied to multiple schools. All it takes is one school willing to look at you as an individual and not statistic. I can promise you that you increase those chances by applying to more schools. The question is are you willing to do what it takes to get in. I was in the military when I got accepted to school. I had to schedule leave for each interview, along with make a couple of day trips. I would wake up at 2 am, drive to New Orleans, get on a plane at 5-6 am, rent a car, go to my interview, and reverse the process. I made a 3 trips in 3 weeks, and had 3-4 more lined up for the next few weeks. It all depends on what you are willing to do to accomplish your goal. I was willing to do whatever it took, and for that I was rewarded. Now comes the hardwork graduating.

As for shyness. According to your profile, you have not graduated Nursing School yet. When you graduate and begin working as a RN, you will develop relationships with both nurses and physicians. You will not be as shy with people, you can't afford to be. It is not that difficult to ask friends, managers, and physicians/ CRNAs for references. I promise you if you are too shy to ask for a reference from people you work with, then you will have difficulty with 4-6 people testing your personality, knowledge, and critical thinking skills. I went to 3 interviews, and with each one there were 4-6 people sitting across from me, grilling me with questions. Very intimidating.

Roland · Aug 15, 2005

I would tend to say you are partially correct with your analysis on most schools and there acceptance procedures. Schools are looking for nurses that will be successful in their program, and pass the certification exam. With that said, there are a few schools that actually look at the individual, other than just grades and scores alone. I have seen and talked with people that were incredible canidates as far as grades and scores went, but did not even get an interview. They lost out to others with lower grades and scores, but more experience and better references. I will tell you that your "booksmart" nurses are not always your best nurses. Believe it or not, personality, attitude, and willingness to learn are what tend to make your better nurses. With all of that said, do the best you can in school, to increase your chances.
I can tell you that, I did alright in school, but not as good as I could have or should have. I feel that my experience and desire to do whatever it takes to get in school is what separated me from others with better grades. I retook a couple of classes and applied to multiple schools. All it takes is one school willing to look at you as an individual and not statistic. I can promise you that you increase those chances by applying to more schools. The question is are you willing to do what it takes to get in. I was in the military when I got accepted to school. I had to schedule leave for each interview, along with make a couple of day trips. I would wake up at 2 am, drive to New Orleans, get on a plane at 5-6 am, rent a car, go to my interview, and reverse the process. I made a 3 trips in 3 weeks, and had 3-4 more lined up for the next few weeks. It all depends on what you are willing to do to accomplish your goal. I was willing to do whatever it took, and for that I was rewarded. Now comes the hardwork graduating.
As for shyness. According to your profile, you have not graduated Nursing School yet. When you graduate and begin working as a RN, you will develop relationships with both nurses and physicians. You will not be as shy with people, you can't afford to be. It is not that difficult to ask friends, managers, and physicians/ CRNAs for references. I promise you if you are too shy to ask for a reference from people you work with, then you will have difficulty with 4-6 people testing your personality, knowledge, and critical thinking skills. I went to 3 interviews, and with each one there were 4-6 people sitting across from me, grilling me with questions. Very intimidating.

What do you think about my "reapplication hypothesis". Namely, that you will have a better chance reapplying to ten schools where you did not get accepted (I pick ten because it's a nice round number) than to ten new schools the following year (again the actual number could be three or five). Basically, I believe that the schools which rejected you the first time are likely (at least some of them) to give you a bit of a bump for tenacity. Ceteris Paribus obviously applies here we are assuming that the ten schools are not particularly unsuited to your profile (as compared to the other alternative where you might apply). I wonder if there might not be a thread over at student docotor.net or elsewhere where this approach has been discussed relative to medical schools (given that so many more students apply to medical schools each year than CRNA school there is likely to be more data on this approach).

Medic14 · Aug 15, 2005

Sorry I believe that the shot gun approach sends the wrong message. First I think it doesn't make sense to throw away money on mulitple schools, the money adds up, transcript, gre, coping, postal fees, and think of this most schools require references, how would you respond if some one asked you to fill out 8-12 different reference forms.

As placing myself in the interviews spot, I would ask have you applied to any other schools? yea, 12 others, that immediatly tells me that you are not really concerned about the quality of education that you get other than get one, well if that was true then do the Univ of Pheonix on-line corresponence CRNA program.

If you are serious about this, sit down and make a list of requirement "your" ideal program needs to have. Sorry one of them can not be "highest acceptance rate". Some items to consider: Clinical sites(where, quality of hospitals, do they also have MDA residents), Success of the program (call the program and ask what their passing rate on the CRNA exam as compared to the national average, what is their "drop" out rate, do any of those students come back), What support will the program provide for you while you are in the program (finacial, job placement, tutoring, etc.) How many cases does the average student grad with, How does the school handle students with major life issues(sickness, etc.)

I would highly recommend contacting any program you have interest in, ask them for career guidence, ask to speak with a member of the admission board and seek guideance in what would make your packet good.

Sorry for the tone of my post, but It seems quite too often members post here looking for quick fixes, I'm not singling you out, just making a general statement.

Cont. to seek guidance from active CRNAs, I disagree with the crnas that suggested to you to fill out mulitple applications.

I myself have had a desire to become a crna since my soph year in college, after grad in 99, I sought guidance from a program director, he suggested I take a Grad organic chem course. I thought he was crazy, and so did several crnas I've spoken to.

I applied to two programs, interview at each and received acceptance letters the next day. I spent a long time choosing one program over another because it was close, but in the end I leaned on the clinical experiences that I would get over proximity of home.

BLUF: Choose what program fits you the best and what your needs are not the program that accepts you first.

good luck

DSAC · Aug 15, 2005

Sorry I believe that the shot gun approach sends the wrong message. First I think it doesn't make sense to throw away money on mulitple schools, the money adds up, transcript, gre, coping, postal fees, and think of this most schools require references, how would you respond if some one asked you to fill out 8-12 different reference forms.
As placing myself in the interviews spot, I would ask have you applied to any other schools? yea, 12 others, that immediatly tells me that you are not really concerned about the quality of education that you get other than get one, well if that was true then do the Univ of Pheonix on-line corresponence CRNA program.
If you are serious about this, sit down and make a list of requirement "your" ideal program needs to have. Sorry one of them can not be "highest acceptance rate". Some items to consider: Clinical sites(where, quality of hospitals, do they also have MDA residents), Success of the program (call the program and ask what their passing rate on the CRNA exam as compared to the national average, what is their "drop" out rate, do any of those students come back), What support will the program provide for you while you are in the program (finacial, job placement, tutoring, etc.) How many cases does the average student grad with, How does the school handle students with major life issues(sickness, etc.)
I would highly recommend contacting any program you have interest in, ask them for career guidence, ask to speak with a member of the admission board and seek guideance in what would make your packet good.
Sorry for the tone of my post, but It seems quite too often members post here looking for quick fixes, I'm not singling you out, just making a general statement.
Cont. to seek guidance from active CRNAs, I disagree with the crnas that suggested to you to fill out mulitple applications.
I myself have had a desire to become a crna since my soph year in college, after grad in 99, I sought guidance from a program director, he suggested I take a Grad organic chem course. I thought he was crazy, and so did several crnas I've spoken to.
I applied to two programs, interview at each and received acceptance letters the next day. I spent a long time choosing one program over another because it was close, but in the end I leaned on the clinical experiences that I would get over proximity of home.
BLUF: Choose what program fits you the best and what your needs are not the program that accepts you first.
good luck

Everyone has there opinion on this, and that is why the question is being asked. I just want you to look at it like this. There are thousands of nurses that were borderline nursing students, however, they are unbelievable nurses. Do you think that these people should not be able to go to anesthesia school? The majority of anesthesia schools offer interviews based on grades and scores. They will not even look at your application if you do not have a 3.5 and a 1100 on the GRE. I can name 3 of my friends off the top of my head that are borderline applicants (3.0/1000), but incredible nurses. I guarantee that these people would make incredible CRNAs also. The point I am trying to make is that these people really want to be CRNAs, so they must apply to several schools to get an opportunity to get in. Judging someone by how many schools they apply to is just plain wrong. As has been said on this forum many times, "which is the best program in the country?" "the one you get accepted to" Yes, I am sure some programs are better than others, but every school still has to meet the minimum criteria for graduation , set forth by the AANA. Should people give up on a lifelong dream, because they could not get into a certain program? I can tell you, that is cutting your dreams short, and not even giving yourself a chance.

You know, I fit into this category also. I was accepted to TWU with a cumulative GPA of 2.9, 3.0 science, and a 990 on the GRE. My experience consists of 8 years as an anesthesia tech, RN--3 years ER, 3 years CTICU, and a year of PACU on a part-time bases. I knew I wanted to be a CRNA at the age of 18 when I started working as an anesthesia tech. I retook science classes last summer to improve my science GPA just so I could get a look. I am not going to give excuses why my GPA was low in school, because that is what they would be, excuses. I could have done better and should have done better, but I didn't and I had to overcome that to get into school. Did I care what school I got into? Yes. My goal was to get into school though, because I have wanted for so long. Does that mean I do not care about the type of education I get? Not at all. I promise you, I care more than most, and plan on graduating in the top of my class. I may not be as smart as most, but I do have the drive to be the best I can. I am definitely more mature now than I was during college, and more focused. One thing is for sure, I am also extremely nervous knowing that if I mess up, it could be over. Getting accepted is not the hard part, graduating is.

I have a friend that was in the military with me, and is going to TWU also. His grades resemble mine. I know he is an exceptional nurse. He actually trained me to the ICU and CTICU. He, like me, has wanted this along time. As a matter of fact, we both separated from the military just to attend school. I never applied to the military anesthesia school, but he did a couple of times. He did not get in because it can be tougher to get into those schools if you do not have the GPA and GRE ( you have to be accepted by the AFIT board first, then the school itself, and you do not even get a real interview). I came across a couple of nurses that were actually in anesthesia school, but failed out in clinicals. This was not because they were not smart, it was because they could not grasp the concepts in clinicals. They were accepted into the program based on their grades and GRE. I like both of them as people, but they were not good nurses either.

As far schools not liking the fact that you apply to multiple places, that maybe true at some, but TWU asked how many I applied to. I told them I applied to 12 schools, they were impressed and said. " You must really want it." I told them that it is was all I ever wanted to do.

You are right about the cost of applying to multiple schools, it is expensive. I could use that money right about now, but I was saving up just for that purpose. I would not change a thing. TWU was my first choice of school, but if they would not have offered, I would have attended another school (if offered). That does not mean I do not care about my education, it means that I care about my life's dreams.

If I had a friend ask me to fill out 8-12 applications I would not have a problem with it. Most applications take about 10-15 minutes to fill out. I had 1 co-work/ friend, 1 nurse manager, 1 CRNA, 1 MD, and 1 Nursing instructor, that filled out my references. They had no problem filling them out for me. Of course, it was over a 8 month period that I had them done. They were happy to do it, and they were even more excited when I was accepted.

This message is not a flame in anyway. I just don't think it is right to judge people, and say they do not care about the quality of their education because they apply to muliple programs. Everyone will be sacraficing alot to go to school, and to achieve their lifelong goals.

The Gunslinger · Aug 15, 2005

Sorry I believe that the shot gun approach sends the wrong message. First I think it doesn't make sense to throw away money on mulitple schools, the money adds up, transcript, gre, coping, postal fees, and think of this most schools require references, how would you respond if some one asked you to fill out 8-12 different reference forms.
As placing myself in the interviews spot, I would ask have you applied to any other schools? yea, 12 others, that immediatly tells me that you are not really concerned about the quality of education that you get other than get one, well if that was true then do the Univ of Pheonix on-line corresponence CRNA program.
If you are serious about this, sit down and make a list of requirement "your" ideal program needs to have. Sorry one of them can not be "highest acceptance rate". Some items to consider: Clinical sites(where, quality of hospitals, do they also have MDA residents), Success of the program (call the program and ask what their passing rate on the CRNA exam as compared to the national average, what is their "drop" out rate, do any of those students come back), What support will the program provide for you while you are in the program (finacial, job placement, tutoring, etc.) How many cases does the average student grad with, How does the school handle students with major life issues(sickness, etc.)
I would highly recommend contacting any program you have interest in, ask them for career guidence, ask to speak with a member of the admission board and seek guideance in what would make your packet good.
Sorry for the tone of my post, but It seems quite too often members post here looking for quick fixes, I'm not singling you out, just making a general statement.
Cont. to seek guidance from active CRNAs, I disagree with the crnas that suggested to you to fill out mulitple applications.
I myself have had a desire to become a crna since my soph year in college, after grad in 99, I sought guidance from a program director, he suggested I take a Grad organic chem course. I thought he was crazy, and so did several crnas I've spoken to.
I applied to two programs, interview at each and received acceptance letters the next day. I spent a long time choosing one program over another because it was close, but in the end I leaned on the clinical experiences that I would get over proximity of home.
BLUF: Choose what program fits you the best and what your needs are not the program that accepts you first.
good luck

There is no way that I'm going to tell an admissions committee that I've applied to twelve or more schools! As far as I'm concerned it is none of their business. If they ask me anyone I will probably tell them the acceptable answer of three or four. Perhaps, this makes me a liar, guess that means I'm qualified to be President along with Bush and Clinton! When I obtained my last SNE position I applied to about twenty hospitals and several asked me to how many I had applied. A truthful answer would have probably prevented me from getting the job that I have now.

air · Aug 16, 2005

Whatever makes you comfortable and whatever strategy gets you into the program is the best for you.

CRNA programs follow the national guidelines for admission (BSc, BSN, ACLS, CC. exp). It just so happens that some schools decide what is CC and the quality of that experience i.e SICU Vs ER or cath lab.

If you feel confortable with the shotgun approach then by all means go for it.

I know a particular applicant with 4.0 GPA. Good command of verbal/communication skills but was accepted into my program. He had all the necessary requirements. He laid all his eggs in one basket.

There is a current SRNA on this board that went to 8 interviews in 2003 and several more in the spring of 2004 and later got an admission in April 04. This case is well documented on this BB

I can understand why some prefer the a standard one application approach.

Maybe it makes more sense if the applications were staggered, you have your preference schools, that you apply to first and taking into consideration their deadlines then see what happens and you navigate the maze from there.

I am not advocating any one method. There are pluses and minuses for both methods. Honestly evaluate your situation and determine which method would best suit your needs and goals

Good luck

DSAC · Aug 16, 2005

Whatever makes you comfortable and whatever strategy gets you into the program is the best for you.
CRNA programs follow the national guidelines for admission (BSc, BSN, ACLS, CC. exp). It just so happens that some schools decide what is CC and the quality of that experience i.e SICU Vs ER or cath lab.
If you feel confortable with the shotgun approach then by all means go for it.
I know a particular applicant with 4.0 GPA. Good command of verbal/communication skills but was accepted into my program. He had all the necessary requirements. He laid all his eggs in one basket.
There is a current SRNA on this board that went to 8 interviews in 2003 and several more in the spring of 2004 and later got an admission in April 04. This case is well documented on this BB
I can understand why some prefer the a standard one application approach.
Maybe it makes more sense if the applications were staggered, you have your preference schools, that you apply to first and taking into consideration their deadlines then see what happens and you navigate the maze from there.
I am not advocating any one method. There are pluses and minuses for both methods. Honestly evaluate your situation and determine which method would best suit your needs and goals
Good luck

Completely agree. It is all in what you want, and what you are comfortable with.

bluesky, BSN, RN · Oct 19, 2005

Well that's good to know I still cannot imagine asking someone for a reference. Heck, I was too shy to ask people to even sign my year books in school. As to the school that had 240 applicants that is precisely why schools should have more of a "looking glass" policy when it comes to their admission standards. For example if I knew that the schools I were interested in only accepted 22 out of 240, I would be much more inclined to apply to more schools than if I thought they would be getting say 40 for those spots. Keep in mind that most of our cogitations apply to the "borderline" applicant. Those with high GPA's, years of CC experience, and good GRE scores will tend to get in even with a small number of applications. It's no great challenge to find a date for Tom Cruise or Tom Hanks that goes well. However, setting Danny Devito (without his money or fame) up on a date with a model that ends in a marriage is much more of a challenge and requires far more deliberation, cunning, and calculation.
I've stated before and firmly believe that some schools tend to have higher average GPA's and lower applicant to accepted applicant ratios than do others. For example, I would wager that the schools in Penn, and Tenn as a whole receive fewer applicants per slot than say the schools in California. Also, I bet that the classes that start in the Winter/Spring receive fewer applicants than those which start in the fall (since more people will tend to graduate in the Spring, and thus hit their one to two years CC experience level in the Spring). I would also suppose that schools which have a 24 month program tend to get more applicants than those which require say 30 months to graduate. Also, those schools which require less Chemistry, and don't require Physics, and or the GRE probably get a few, fewer applicants per open slot (keep in mind for example that there are those with high GPA's who don't do well on standardized tests for whatever reason). All of these factors (and probably many others) can be considered and potentially utilized to give "Danny Devito" a better chance of finding love.

Not that it's any of my business, but have you even graduated from nursing school yet? Why not start by concentrating on being the best SICU nurse you can before jumping the gun to CRNA. In order to be a great CRNA, you will have to be a great RN first. I frankly think it's completely irresponsible that some schools allow students into their graduate programs with fewer than 2 years at the bedside.

Meeting all these people who are pressed to go to CRNA school because it offers the best money around really actually turns me off to CRNA alltogether. I don't much cherish the prospect of being surrounded by the same med-school-wannabee types who are pursuing status and financial gain over the prospect of excellent pt care. I am not saying that all CRNAs are like this, it just has that same feel as the whole med school thing.

heartICU · Oct 19, 2005

I frankly think it's completely irresponsible that some schools allow students into their graduate programs with fewer than 2 years at the bedside.

Careful what you say here. Some of the best CRNAs I know got in with less than two years of experience. Most programs are pretty good at weeding out those applicants who just rushed through their ICU experience to get to anesthesia school as opposed to those who made the most of their time while in the unt.

It is entirely student-dependent. Some nurses can be successful after one year, some can't handle it until two years, and some never can.

bluesky, BSN, RN · Oct 19, 2005

Careful what you say here. Some of the best CRNAs I know got in with less than two years of experience. Most programs are pretty good at weeding out those applicants who just rushed through their ICU experience to get to anesthesia school as opposed to those who made the most of their time while in the unt.
It is entirely student-dependent. Some nurses can be successful after one year, some can't handle it until two years, and some never can.

How do you qualify the best CRNAs you know?

heartICU · Oct 19, 2005

How do you qualify the best CRNAs you know?

To me, being an excellent CRNA is being acutely aware of patient status, administering a skillful, safe, carefully tailored anesthetic, with a smooth induction, rapid, smooth emergence when indicated, and little to no pain when the patient is awake. Granted, this is generalizing quite a bit, as there are many many aspects to smooth anesthesia, especially when you factor other things into it, like patient status, skill of surgeon, etc. The particular CRNAs I am thinking of routinely take care of ASA 3 and 4 patients, undergoing major procedures, and use their extensive knowledge base to guide them in their decision-making. Now that is not to say that every CRNA is like that - but I don't think it is dependent on years of experience as a bedside RN. For example, I think one year in a large teaching institution cardiothoracic ICU is more valuable than five years in a rural four-bed ICU. It is truly what you make of it.

Why do you think programs are irresponsible to let RNs into graduate anesthesia programs with less than 2 years experience?