Hospitals illegally firing nurses for refusing flu vaccines - page 7

by AQEELSMOM

Apologies if this has been posted somewhere else. I'm using the mobile app and am still getting the hang of things. What are your thoughts? Hospitals illegally firing nurses for refusing flu vaccines in violation of state law,... Read More


  1. 0
    Quote from elkpark
    Again, they're not holding anyone down and giving them the vaccination against their will -- they're just saying that, if you don't want to take the shot, you're welcome to seek employment elsewhere, somewhere that doesn't have that as a condition of employment. Aren't employers also "the free and the brave"? They have the right to set whatever workplace and employee conditions they see as necessary to promote good care and outcomes in their workplaces, as long as they're not violating state or Federal labor and EO laws. And employees have the right to work somewhere else if they don't like a particular facility/organization's requirements. "Freedom" cuts both ways.
    In my case,it has not been determined as yet if it is against employment law.Just might be. I was laid off (some of my co-nurses were fired!)for refusing the vaccine. Of course I contacted the Unemployment bureau which is now tying to determine the legality of that.I am the first person in the state to bring this forth.It is not state law to mandate only a hospital mandate.They are also aware of the discrepancy(me laid off,other fired).We ill see.
  2. 0
    You are aware that OSHA will not get behind mandating the flu shot, yes?
    Quote from MeggieA
    In my case,it has not been determined as yet if it is against employment law.Just might be. I was laid off (some of my co-nurses were fired!)for refusing the vaccine. Of course I contacted the Unemployment bureau which is now tying to determine the legality of that.I am the first person in the state to bring this forth.It is not state law to mandate only a hospital mandate.They are also aware of the discrepancy(me laid off,other fired).We ill see.
  3. 1
    anytime there is an avoidable change in condition of your employment and the end result for example is that a person with a higher salary ( been there longer) is replaced by a lower salaried person ( new hire) then yes that is illegal.
    The trick question in this case "is this avoidable". The answer is yes--it is.
    Hospitals are acting independently on this mandated flu vaccination. There is no national standard, there is no national mandate. This is singularly motivated by CMS's misguided quality requirements that began in 2013. Look it up. CMS states that acute care facilities etc need to have 90% of their staff vaccinated by the year 2015 or face possible penalties. Mandating it is the cheapest and easiest way out. To hell with what others think about that!
    Administration forgets that they are suppose to work FOR us--we dont work for THEM. We work for the facility and our patients.
    In time this is going to backfire on a lot of management types---but until then look at the damage it will cause.
    Damage not in just loosing Nurses and having reduced staffing, but more so, the damage in the relationship between the staff and management, you know motivation, trust, fairness those type of things. It helps to change the " OK we are all in this together and lets be a team"---to" it's every person for themselves" --Thats kinda extreme--but I hope that illustrates my point?
    Even OSHA does not recommend that this vaccination be mandatory.

    But the question about legality--I dont think in a court of law that it will past muster.
    I wonder if it is mandated for CDC employees? lol.
    sharee1027 likes this.
  4. 0
    Have we really gotten rid of most of the diseases in this world, or has the world just created new ones? If the earth puts out new diseases, viruses, bacteria every day...does that mean the human race will become nothing but pin cushions, getting vaccinated for everything from anthrax to Syphylis? think I spelled it wrong..but you know what I am saying?
    They already tell you what to eat, what to wear, where to go on vacation, what news you watch, whats going on in the world, where you paycheck is going.. monitering your every move on the highways now....how much can they control?
  5. 4
    Quote from lumbarpain
    Have we really gotten rid of most of the diseases in this world, or has the world just created new ones? If the earth puts out new diseases, viruses, bacteria every day...does that mean the human race will become nothing but pin cushions, getting vaccinated for everything from anthrax to Syphylis? think I spelled it wrong..but you know what I am saying?
    They already tell you what to eat, what to wear, where to go on vacation, what news you watch, whats going on in the world, where you paycheck is going.. monitering your every move on the highways now....how much can they control?
    Who is "they"? It seems like there are a lot of conspiracy theories here. Side note: I wish there was a vaccine for syphilis. I have administered the Bicillin injections to treat it, and people walk out of the exam room with a limp.
    Laidback Al, elkpark, tewdles, and 1 other like this.
  6. 0
    Agree with Missnurse.....I worked for 17 years as a LTC/Subacute RN....saw alot happening back then, saw things I didnt like, saw too many patients getting too many meds and not getting any better. What are we doing wrong..?? we missed the mark on being Human and caring and become a techno high profile texting, emailing, computer ravaged, paperwork innudated more complicated, less compassionate society. I am sure there are many many people out there that agree with me, but how come we are all so silent when all this is taking place. What do we do about all this forced vaccine stuff before we are forced to do other things in this country just to survive.?
  7. 0
    Nursing by profession is at times too complacent. Why do ya'll think that occurs?
    What single patient focused standard has Nursing on a national level said they will not do? I am not speaking about the general statements--we will not do anything not ethical etc.
    What specific thing has Nursing on a national level taken a stand on? Nurse to patient ratios--no? Proper infection control techniques enforced--no. Working mandatory overtime--no. Working too long of a shift ( 16 hrs+) --no. Professional autonomy --no ( I know of nursing departments being managed by non nurses, nursing policies developed without nursing input--etc).
    Unfortunately Unions are the only thing that can bring a single voice to others that I am aware of. Now I am not pro union, but if it gets down to them versus us--unions may become more prevalent.

    Conspiracy theory? I think maybe there is a misunderstanding in that regard. I perceive " they" as being those that are mandating this vaccination. "They" do control a lot now a days. Monitoring every keystroke, monitoring your position while at work, video cameras in halls. elevators and outside the facility. "They" are also monitoring your activity while away from work--speaking about something "they" dont like on facebook can get you fired for example. I don't think its a conspiracy ( agaisnt what?) but the fact remains we have lost a LOT of privacy. We have lost a lot of privacy in our lives and now others are telling us we must receive this so called vaccine or lose your job. I think we are getting mad. That could be a good thing.
  8. 0
    Quote from olddragger
    Nursing by profession is at times too complacent. Why do ya'll think that occurs?
    What single patient focused standard has Nursing on a national level said they will not do? I am not speaking about the general statements--we will not do anything not ethical etc.
    What specific thing has Nursing on a national level taken a stand on? Nurse to patient ratios--no? Proper infection control techniques enforced--no. Working mandatory overtime--no. Working too long of a shift ( 16 hrs+) --no. Professional autonomy --no ( I know of nursing departments being managed by non nurses, nursing policies developed without nursing input--etc).
    Unfortunately Unions are the only thing that can bring a single voice to others that I am aware of. Now I am not pro union, but if it gets down to them versus us--unions may become more prevalent.

    Conspiracy theory? I think maybe there is a misunderstanding in that regard. I perceive " they" as being those that are mandating this vaccination. "They" do control a lot now a days. Monitoring every keystroke, monitoring your position while at work, video cameras in halls. elevators and outside the facility. "They" are also monitoring your activity while away from work--speaking about something "they" dont like on facebook can get you fired for example. I don't think its a conspiracy ( agaisnt what?) but the fact remains we have lost a LOT of privacy. We have lost a lot of privacy in our lives and now others are telling us we must receive this so called vaccine or lose your job. I think we are getting mad. That could be a good thing.

    I agree with all you said.

    First I accept the definition of a conspiracy as:any concurrence in action; combination in bringing about a given result.Obviously, there is NOT just one entity taking action to bring about certain results on a population but numerous.When I look at all the WHYs and VARIABLES behind these actions it is very easy for me to come to a conclusion.

    I see things happening on a large scale AGAINST our RIGHTS! More rights are being awarded to those in power to erode the rights of a lot of Americans.

    My take on this is: Americans and GOOD,HONEST,RESPECTABLE,LAW ABIDING,HARD WORKING Americans are NOW being coerced through MANDATES and FEAR.Jobs are now being hung like carrots over people's heads ,as what is happening with some of these mandates we are seeing.

    Could there be a degree of truth that Americans are being"dumbed down"? Whether through drugs(and more and more of them)lack of education through massive education cuts lately(some legitimate-most not),through inaccessibility for continuing and advanced education due to exorbitant costs for those not wealthy enough to afford it or accepted but found to be ILLITERATE!! I definitely question an agenda with that one. In addition there is the insane number of people forced(mostly for legitimate reasons,some not) onto welfare.

    Who,of those who have the power to help,is actually doing so AND succeding?Some mainstream Americans have some really great doable ideas on solutions for resolving alot of the problems we face.Sure we are LISTENED to but that is about all. Maybe succeding in resolutions is NOT an option? Maybe once a good part of society is deemed unintellegent,financially insecure and largely powerless, then VOILA.Hmmmm.

    All in all, I feel we are becoming a society that has less and less resources to fight back against these injustices. Are we becoming too much of a drugged,malnourished(body and soul), sick,poor,uneducated and,by some new laws, unprotected society? We are already on that proverbial slippery slope into a complacent,desensitized,vulnerable state of existence.

    You are so right in stating "we are getting mad".We are just NOT mad enough and I fear collectively we will NEVER be.Sure ,we will continue to complain and spout betrayal amongst our little groups of friends,family,acquaintances while our reactions are monitored as a whole(through polls and activist activities) and found we are NOT going to do too much about it. It will just afford more time,reason and power (for those who CAN) to take more of our RIGHTS away.
  9. 0
    Quote from morte
    You are aware that OSHA will not get behind mandating the flu shot, yes?

    YES, but NOT YET anyway. Big Pharma is gaining more and more influence over the research in OCCUPATIONAL epidemiology and pharmacoepidemiology. Very unsettling to me.
  10. 2
    Random question: How many people participating in this thread are wearing a tin foil hat?
    Laidback Al and elkpark like this.


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