RNFA 'S - page 6

Are there any RNFA's that are MAD or getting Mad about the Surgical scrub first assisting? Maybe we should be! #1 This is a job we have worked very hard for, we went to school to get a degree and... Read More

  1. by   callbabe
    Quote from Lee75
    I'm a RNFA, however I have not worked as one b/c I moved to England shortly after finishing the program. I will be returning to the states soon and hoping to get the opportunity to utilize my RNFA. My question is, do most hospitals require you to be certified to work as an employee (RNFA) of the hospital? Just trying to decide if it's necessary for me to go back to school for a BSN so that I can become certified. Thanks.
    I would suggest that you get your BSN because in the near future you will be able to bill Medicare and some third party payors. Which will make you more marketable. Right now though it is not neccesary to have your BSN to practice. Most places do not require a certification, but it does show a level of competence. I would be happy to answer anymore of your questions. Also make sure if your are employed at a hospital that you have your own job description. I am employed by a Level II trauma center, I work as a staff nurse part of the time, I have clinical priviledges to work with any surgeon on staff that needs me. My salary changes when I am in my RNFA role. I also work privately for an GYN ONOCOLOGIST and bill for my services myself.
    Have a nice day.
    Last edit by callbabe on Jul 19, '06
  2. by   Lee75
    Thanks, I appreciate your advise. I'll be sure and let you know if I have any other questions.
  3. by   bluegrassboy
    Quote from devilsadvocate
    Ok, I just have to chime in here. I have read this thread from start to finish and all I can say to you elitist nurses is get over yourselves. Before I go on, a little about me. I started as a OR tech, became a CST, then an RN, then a BSN and I am now about to begin Osteopathic medical school.
    From my experience (and I have years of it in most every scope of practice here) the only difference between a OR tech, a CST, an RN scrub, a surgical PA or a RNFA at the bedside, is their title and their check. Each one does a safe, competent job, but each one could do any part of that job with training. You can not tell me that I need a 2 year residency is necessary to learn to suture a wound!
    Each one of you can spout off all you want to about how much "safer" an RN is in the OR, but you and I both know that when the #@8! hits the fan, you stand there and watch like a scared puppy while the Surgeon and the CRNA/Anesthesiologist deal with the problem. You also know as well as I do, that you don't need four years of school to hold a clamp and cut a suture. You don't need 6 years of school to suture a wound, and you certainly don't need initials behind your name to know what you should not do.
    Now that my rant is over, can't we all just get along? Health care continues to specialize. To the point where everyone will eventually have an initial to change a bed pan. Instead of all these infantile turf wars, over things anyone can do, lets focus on the real issues and provide the patient centered care you were meant to provide. You are not focused on patient care at all, you are focused on your on petty rivalries and on ego protection.
    To all you nurses who think you are the only "SAFE" care provider in the OR... HAHAHAHAHA. I will take a surgical tech, who has received one to two years of specific training as a scrub over an RN with her 2 week orientation and his/her full time ego-pushing, elitist peers anyday. I know the difference first hand and you are WAY out classed.
    How many weeks did you spend reviewing specific types of surgical cases and doing case studies? How much time did you spend in a lab getting the hand scrub perfect, or learning to think critically about surgical field contamination. Do you even realize the level of surgical training that a CST gets? Do you honestly think a class in microbiology, physiology and a 6 week clinical rotation through an OR watching from the bed side or documenting the type of suture was used, in any way makes you more qualified than the CST who spent months learning the complete process for each specific surgical case. In fact, the school I attended used a residents surgical text and taught us procedures exactly like a surgical resident learn?
    What do you think a CST studies in school? While you spent 2 years learning a little about all aspects of nursing, a CST spends one or two yeras focusing on surgical procedures and sterile technique only. You are way, way, way, out classed here. You have been instructed how to push meds and document. The CST learned CPR just like you did and I will guarantee you that they have a better understanding of the surgical case, the anatomy & physiology, and how to complete a procedure.
    The word nurse comes from the word that means to nurish. Nurses should spend more time caring for patients needs and less time trying to become Doctors without degrees. We all get it, you didn't go to/get into medical school and now you are just bitter. LET IT GO! Accept the fact that CST are qualified, competent and necessary. Just like nurses, PA's and RNFA's.
    There is a serious and critical nursing shortage out here and it is getting worse every single day. Your jobs are not going anywhere. Now go to work, give everyone a group hug, leave your ego in the locker room and have a great day.
    Yes I am 17, Yes I am still in high school, Yes I am still learning how to be a CNA and some day a RN. I know very little about the medical field as of now, but your post just hit me the wrong way. When I read this the only thing that comes to my mind is that you are a bitter old person that some one once put down, now you are trying to build your self back up by hiding behind screen names and attacking other people. You seem like a bully, or in my generations words "annoying *****".

    I came to this form in search of info on RNFA from people who work as/with one. Not sarcasm and rude posts That help NO ONE.
    -wade
  4. by   P_RN
    Well we all know we should not feed the Trolls even though they are crunchy and taste good with a little dipping sauce.......

    Only one post here and that was back in June.
  5. by   heather2084
    My goal is RNFA, and i hope I dont come up against as many obsticals as have been presented in this thread as some have, though I'm sure it's enevitable. One thing i hope more than any of this, is that i don't become jaded and cynical about nursing as one poster has.

    I now am coming to understand why the debate of nurses vs techs is such an issue. Im graduating in less than 3 weeks with a BSN and it's hard work. After putting in so much hard work, its hard to imagine someone who can come in and do your job just as good with less training. Notice i didn't say less hard work, as they put in hard work as well, but the time nurses spend compared to the time of a tech is unmeasurable. I do not believe this in order to say nurses are better and above techs, but there is a reason that nurses are nurses, and techs are techs. It's as simple as that, which i saw first hand this summer working as a patient care tech.
  6. by   sunnyjohn
    A Certified Surgical Technologist and a Patient Care Tech/ Certified Nursing Assistant are two different things. All deserve respect.

    Surgical Technologists will NEVER replace Nurses in the Operating Room. That is NOT our goal. Our goal is to assist the surgeon and the circulating nurse to assure that the patient has a successful surgical outcome.

    As a CERTFIED SURGICAL TECHNOLOGIST I know my 'scope of practice'. I operate as a professional within it and strive for the highest standard of care. Both the nurse and I use each other in our Operating Room roles to attain professional excellence.

    I reconginze that the RN has a license that he/she must protect through sound practice, vigilant patient care and patient advocacy.

    I am not licensed, but I do have a small voice and will help that RN to acheive that goal as far as my training allows and as far as I legally, morally, and ethically can.

    I respect RNs enough to join their ranks. I wish only the same courtesy.


    This RN v Scrub tech thing is uneccessary.
    Last edit by sunnyjohn on Nov 29, '06
  7. by   subee
    Quote from devilsadvocate
    Ok, I just have to chime in here. I have read this thread from start to finish and all I can say to you elitist nurses is get over yourselves. Before I go on, a little about me. I started as a OR tech, became a CST, then an RN, then a BSN and I am now about to begin Osteopathic medical school.
    From my experience (and I have years of it in most every scope of practice here) the only difference between a OR tech, a CST, an RN scrub, a surgical PA or a RNFA at the bedside, is their title and their check. Each one does a safe, competent job, but each one could do any part of that job with training. You can not tell me that I need a 2 year residency is necessary to learn to suture a wound!
    Each one of you can spout off all you want to about how much "safer" an RN is in the OR, but you and I both know that when the #@8! hits the fan, you stand there and watch like a scared puppy while the Surgeon and the CRNA/Anesthesiologist deal with the problem. You also know as well as I do, that you don't need four years of school to hold a clamp and cut a suture. You don't need 6 years of school to suture a wound, and you certainly don't need initials behind your name to know what you should not do.
    Now that my rant is over, can't we all just get along? Health care continues to specialize. To the point where everyone will eventually have an initial to change a bed pan. Instead of all these infantile turf wars, over things anyone can do, lets focus on the real issues and provide the patient centered care you were meant to provide. You are not focused on patient care at all, you are focused on your on petty rivalries and on ego protection.
    To all you nurses who think you are the only "SAFE" care provider in the OR... HAHAHAHAHA. I will take a surgical tech, who has received one to two years of specific training as a scrub over an RN with her 2 week orientation and his/her full time ego-pushing, elitist peers anyday. I know the difference first hand and you are WAY out classed.
    How many weeks did you spend reviewing specific types of surgical cases and doing case studies? How much time did you spend in a lab getting the hand scrub perfect, or learning to think critically about surgical field contamination. Do you even realize the level of surgical training that a CST gets? Do you honestly think a class in microbiology, physiology and a 6 week clinical rotation through an OR watching from the bed side or documenting the type of suture was used, in any way makes you more qualified than the CST who spent months learning the complete process for each specific surgical case. In fact, the school I attended used a residents surgical text and taught us procedures exactly like a surgical resident learn?
    What do you think a CST studies in school? While you spent 2 years learning a little about all aspects of nursing, a CST spends one or two yeras focusing on surgical procedures and sterile technique only. You are way, way, way, out classed here. You have been instructed how to push meds and document. The CST learned CPR just like you did and I will guarantee you that they have a better understanding of the surgical case, the anatomy & physiology, and how to complete a procedure.
    The word nurse comes from the word that means to nurish. Nurses should spend more time caring for patients needs and less time trying to become Doctors without degrees. We all get it, you didn't go to/get into medical school and now you are just bitter. LET IT GO! Accept the fact that CST are qualified, competent and necessary. Just like nurses, PA's and RNFA's.
    There is a serious and critical nursing shortage out here and it is getting worse every single day. Your jobs are not going anywhere. Now go to work, give everyone a group hug, leave your ego in the locker room and have a great day.
    DA - about a year ago I challenged the AllNurses OR nurses to tell me ONE thing they do that is nursing. I got a lot of vague answers about safety, etc., one guy told me he started IV's on kids (where's anesthesia?) but no one could convince me that what they did was nursing. Its SOMETHING that requires a consistent, regulated curriculum that all people who wants these OR jobs should complete - rather than going through someone's orientation that includes God knows what. So these people who do this SOMETHING THAT IS NOT NURSING should have a degree in this specialty - call it an ORN or a CST but please give them a body of knowledge that doesn't require months and month of orientation before they can take call......or get pregnant or just move to another institution now that they've had their free "training."
  8. by   Marie_LPN, RN
    Quote from subee
    DA - about a year ago I challenged the AllNurses OR nurses to tell me ONE thing they do that is nursing. I got a lot of vague answers about safety, etc., one guy told me he started IV's on kids (where's anesthesia?) but no one could convince me that what they did was nursing. Its SOMETHING that requires a consistent, regulated curriculum that all people who wants these OR jobs should complete - rather than going through someone's orientation that includes God knows what. So these people who do this SOMETHING THAT IS NOT NURSING should have a degree in this specialty - call it an ORN or a CST but please give them a body of knowledge that doesn't require months and month of orientation before they can take call......or get pregnant or just move to another institution now that they've had their free "training."
    It's not up to the OR nurses here or anywhere to prove themselves to a person who isn't convinced that OR nursing is nursing . That is why i never answered to the "challenge." I, for one, do not feel the need to explain my job or what it includes to validate that it is nursing. Nor would i even begin to think of asking others to "convince" me that what they are doing is nursing. That would be a very elitist thing to do.
  9. by   subee
    Quote from Marie_LPN
    It's not up to the OR nurses here or anywhere to prove themselves to a person who isn't convinced that OR nursing is nursing . That is why i never answered to the "challenge." I, for one, do not feel the need to explain my job or what it includes to validate that it is nursing. Nor would i even begin to think of asking others to "convince" me that what they are doing is nursing. That would be a very elitist thing to do.
    More evasion of the question. Again I ask, why isn't someone who goes to college for two years specifically to work in the OR better equipped to work there than someone who is "trained" on the job? What is it about nursing school (with no OR rotation) that makes an RN so much better than a student who spent two years doing clinicals ONLY in the OR. Its a lot different than it was even ten years ago where nurses have to deal with a lot of technology and yet aren't required to be computer literate and have no classes is electronics or applied microbiology. Why should hospitals be required to train OR nurses rather than nursing colleges? In smaller hospitals where nurses might have to cover ASU or PACU, that's a different story. Please, Marie, I know you have worked very hard to become an RN.

    What did your RN degree contribute to your job besides circulating? Please, give me one thing that you are able to apply from any nursing class that will change the way you practice. In a shortage of OR nurses that is becoming rather dire, why not make it possible for a student to come out of school on Friday and go to work on Monday as a contributing member of the team? I think there's a lot of kids out there who aren't particularly suited or interested in nursing that would enjoy this kind of work and we need them desperately.
  10. by   Marie_LPN, RN
    Quote from subee
    More evasion of the question. Again I ask, why isn't someone who goes to college for two years specifically to work in the OR better equipped to work there than someone who is "trained" on the job? What is it about nursing school (with no OR rotation) that makes an RN so much better than a student who spent two years doing clinicals ONLY in the OR. Its a lot different than it was even ten years ago where nurses have to deal with a lot of technology and yet aren't required to be computer literate and have no classes is electronics or applied microbiology. Why should hospitals be required to train OR nurses rather than nursing colleges? In smaller hospitals where nurses might have to cover ASU or PACU, that's a different story. Please, Marie, I know you have worked very hard to become an RN.

    What did your RN degree contribute to your job besides circulating? Please, give me one thing that you are able to apply from any nursing class that will change the way you practice. In a shortage of OR nurses that is becoming rather dire, why not make it possible for a student to come out of school on Friday and go to work on Monday as a contributing member of the team? I think there's a lot of kids out there who aren't particularly suited or interested in nursing that would enjoy this kind of work and we need them desperately.

    I'm only replying to this to state that i'm in school to become an RN, i am not an RN yet, still an LPN (quite sure that puts a whole new 'slant' on things ).

    And as i've said before, whether someone calls it "evaison of the question" or not, hey whatever floats the boat there , i do not feel the need to explain my job or what it includes to validate that it is nursing (I am, however, using plenty of nursing skills that i learned in school). Nor would i even begin to think of asking others to "convince" me that what they are doing is nursing. And i am not arguing this any further for those reasons.
  11. by   Mudfever
    Excuse me for budding in here but I have to comment. What a scrub school you went to where you have 2 years of clinicals in the OR!!! I recently finished scrub school and we had about 2 weeks lab, then extern for 2 months. The rest was book, this was 9 month program at a tech school. I can totally understand why some tech's have a bad reputation from what I saw at my school. We had terrible teachers ("this is where your piss comes out"), skipped or skimmed many chapters, many open book tests, there was cheating en mass and more I'd just like to forget. Not all were this bad but its sad to say that many were. I'm glad you learned so much but it was very different for me. I'm headed to nursing school as soon as possible. I'm hoping and praying nursing school will be completely different from scrub school. I believe its the quality of the instructors that makes the difference in education, a lesson I wished I'd have learned earlier. Peace and best wishes to all.

    Quote from subee
    More evasion of the question. Again I ask, why isn't someone who goes to college for two years specifically to work in the OR better equipped to work there than someone who is "trained" on the job? What is it about nursing school (with no OR rotation) that makes an RN so much better than a student who spent two years doing clinicals ONLY in the OR. ...
  12. by   sunnyjohn
    Quote from Mudfever
    Excuse me for budding in here but I have to comment. What a scrub school you went to where you have 2 years of clinicals in the OR!!! I recently finished scrub school and we had about 2 weeks lab, then extern for 2 months. The rest was book, this was 9 month program at a tech school. I can totally understand why some tech's have a bad reputation from what I saw at my school. We had terrible teachers ("this is where your piss comes out"), skipped or skimmed many chapters, many open book tests, there was cheating en mass and more I'd just like to forget. Not all were this bad but its sad to say that many were. I'm glad you learned so much but it was very different for me. I'm headed to nursing school as soon as possible. I'm hoping and praying nursing school will be completely different from scrub school. I believe its the quality of the instructors that makes the difference in education, a lesson I wished I'd have learned earlier. Peace and best wishes to all.
    This is why the Association of Surgical Technologist is working so hard to standardize tech education.

    My program required 12 hours of prereqs BEFORE calsses even started. A&P I, A&P11, Speech, English Comp. and Basic Health Care Skills (which included CNA training and Med terminology) We also had to take a seperate Pharmacology class (with the nursing and other allied health students) along with a Wellnes/Health Care Promotion class. Our Director/ classroom instructor could be scatterbrained at times, but she was an EXCELLENT teacher and was a fantastic CNOR. My clinical instructors were tough but good teachers.

    We starte Surgical tech classes in August and were in the hospital OR by October. I did 2 days-6:30a-noon the first semester, 3 days 6:30am to 2pm second semester and 5 days 6:30am to 3:00pm summer semester. We had to rotate through EVERY single specialty in the OR including hearts and transplants. The nurse managers in our hospitals LOVED students in my school because they knew we were well trained

    How will students from your school ever be able to past the AST exam for certification? Is your school ABHES or CAAHEP accredited?

    Surgical techs from proper school really need to support the efforts of AST and have these shady schools shut down.
  13. by   tntech1
    Quote from Mudfever
    Excuse me for budding in here but I have to comment. What a scrub school you went to where you have 2 years of clinicals in the OR!!! I recently finished scrub school and we had about 2 weeks lab, then extern for 2 months. The rest was book, this was 9 month program at a tech school. I can totally understand why some tech's have a bad reputation from what I saw at my school. We had terrible teachers ("this is where your piss comes out"), skipped or skimmed many chapters, many open book tests, there was cheating en mass and more I'd just like to forget. Not all were this bad but its sad to say that many were. I'm glad you learned so much but it was very different for me. I'm headed to nursing school as soon as possible. I'm hoping and praying nursing school will be completely different from scrub school. I believe its the quality of the instructors that makes the difference in education, a lesson I wished I'd have learned earlier. Peace and best wishes to all.
    What surgical tech program did you attend!! Most Surgical tech programs are 12-24months(AAS). Clinicals are normally 9 months and the other 3 months class work. That an uncanny surgical tech program and can not possibly be accredited.

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