Can a surg. tech. "circulate" a case -give medications? - page 4

At the hospital where I currently practice we sometimes have 2-RNs and 1-Surg. Tech in a room (on good days). In some cases the Surg. Tech. is allowed to "ciculate" the room with one of the RNs. My... Read More

  1. by   Marie_LPN, RN
    It's clarified for me just fine, probably because i read it for what it is, isntead of thinking too hard on it. As long as i'm within my scope, and doing my job, that's what matters to me.

    Bye
  2. by   callbabe
    Quote from carcha
    Same old, same old, we have this question every week about the role of the tech vs the role of the rn. I'm surprised people are not hostile towards the whole thing. Just a few observations here from england. One, in response to "Dawneyes" and the comment I believe about the 2 year tech course vs the 2 year rn course. I myself took a three year rn course, a two year midwifery course, and a one year or course. I can tell all of you out there , any or tech working with me in the past did not circulate and was closely supervised while scrubbing and if I'm in charge of the room I will take those responsibilities very seriously. I just cannot understand why if there are CST who feel they are as good as the RNS, then go back to school do your rn training and you will be as good as us. This whole topic just annoys me, lots of people bash the RNS for their attitude but lets face it when the s%t hits the fan those same people are quick to hide behind the RNs as the innocents who were just doing what they were told by the RNs. The only way to settle this argument is to just have RNs in the OR and I look forward to the day.
    Amen, I to also look forward to this day.
    AMEN
  3. by   carcha
    :angryfire
    Quote from Rn2b204
    Let's everyone calm down and take a breather. I am currently a nursing student and reading these post about the field of nursing that I am highly interested in makes me sick to here the nurse bashing the ST or CST. I hope I don't develop the "HIGH AND MIGHTY" attitude making others feel beneath me. What seems to be the problem no one is trying to take your job as a RN but everyone has a role and why blame, which I hear a lot of nurse say about techs they are not licensed and they won't be named in the lawsuit if something goes wrong. Why would something go wrong if you are a prudent nurse and know what your role is while you are in charge of the OR. If your hospital policy is to have a CST in the OR for whatever reason then they have to be there but to say that they can't be blamed or named if something goes wrong so you don't want them there. Seems to me that you don't want to be the only fall guy or do you think all CST are not competent enough to work in the OR? To suggest for someone to go back to school so they can be as good as you is a ignorant thing to say so when you become an RN that makes you better than the next person that is not a RN? RN's can't run the hospital by themselves nor the OR by themselves. Let's not bash each others occupation because everyone in the health care field MD, RN, LPN, TECH, HOUSEKEEPING, ETC. all have the same priority and that is the PATIENT/CLIENT.

    excuse the rambling and all the typos and such

    I am commenting to Carsha about what she posted.
  4. by   carcha
    Ok RN2BE, lets go around again . This post regarding OR RNs and CST, and STs is an old topic which rears its ugly head all the time and to be honest I love it because what I was unable to say in a politically correct climate of the work environment I can freely state here. I feel qualified to state my point because 1, I have worked in the OR, for almost 20 years, 2, I have worked with both STs, CSTs and RNs. I do not want to work with STs ect because simply put they are of little value or support to me in assessing, planning , implementing and evaluating patient care. They are trained to scrub and do so for the most part very well but hey I'm no mean scrubber myself, actually I consider myself a brilliant scrub nurse and I dont care who knows it. Now RN2BE, however I am also excellent at anaesthetics, circulating, post operative care and managing the room dealing with conflict, reps, rotas ect ect. In an emergency I am capable of hanging fluids, drawing up drugs organizing who does what, on the nursing staff, dealing with infected cases, orderlies, does anyone want me to stop. My fellow RNs understand all of these duties for which we take responsibility for and are accountable for if called to account. With other RNs at my side my job is a dream. We work together, challange each other, support each other, we rotate duties, no one person scrubs just because thats all they can do, we all rotate, in one day I may scrub for a laparotomy, do anaesthetics for a neonate, circulate for an aneurysm and recover a craniotomy. We are multi skilled peri operative nurses. I do not need anyone in the room who can do no less then I can. I want someone to share responsibilities with, to pool thoughts. Surly you can understand that. As I have previously said STs and CSTs may be brilliant at scrubbing but thats not good enough. And as for recognizing the whole team, ect ect. I am well aware of the whole team but I am as aware for the need to provide each patient with the best possible team. That to me is a team of highly skilled, knowledgable, dedicated RNs. STs and CSTs are not a requirement in the OR, and are only tolerated because to say otherwise is politically incorrect. In my present employment each and every patient is cared for in every aspect of their perioperative journey by and rn.
  5. by   DawnEyes
    Carcha
    I am also excellent at anaesthetics
    I'm just curious...are regular RN's allowed to do anesthesia in the UK? It's an extra two years of school here post-bac. (master's degree)
    Last edit by DawnEyes on Jul 12, '04
  6. by   stevierae
    Quote from DawnEyes
    Carcha

    I'm just curious...are regular RN's allowed to do anesthesia in the UK? It's an extra two years of school here post-bac. (master's degree)
    I think carcha is referring to conscious sedation, which American nurses do frequently. I don't, because I refuse to do an anesthesia provider's job on a nurse's salary, especially when it done only to keep cases moving. It sometimes seems HERE as if "the desk" wants to "head 'em (surgical patients) up and herd 'em out" like cattle, and I won't deliver patient care that way.

    Carcha will clarify, however--I am curious about the extent of RN involvement with neonates in the UK--we just start the IV while the anesthesia provider masks, or vice versa. We may also give IM or IV drugs while the anesthesia provider's hands are tied up, masking.
    Last edit by stevierae on Jul 13, '04
  7. by   DawnEyes
    Thanks for the input, Stevierae. I've seen rn's do conscious sedation in the er, but as you mentioned, I wasn't sure to what extent (in regards to anesthesia) Carcha was referring to.
  8. by   giaryan
    I have to agree.....I am so very tired of Nurses and STs feeling hostility....the whole philosophyof the Operating Room is teamwork....how can that be accomplished if there are those that insist that there is competition on the same team!!!


    Quote from DawnEyes
    I originally had a pretty sharp response to the attitude displayed by Mike...until I read the link posted above (Should ST's circulate?). Now I'm just simply curious....what exactly has spawned such an intense (and I do mean intense, from some of the posts I've read) hatred of ST's? I mean, some of the people got downright nasty! I would think that with the amount of condescending comments RN's receive from doctors because the rn's didn't attend four years of medical school, they would think twice before passing the s**t down a level. (Overheard from a doctor once: "There's no way I could have been JUST an RN. I had to be something more than that." I'm not an RN (yet!) but that comment pissed me off just the same.)

    As a cst myself, I take a lot of pride in knowing my scope of practice and doing my job in a safe, proficient manner. Do I believe that st's should be the primary and sole circulator in an OR? No, we are neither licensed nor trained to do so (ie: pt assessment, dispensing of medications, etc.). I also agree with the posters that every patient should have an rn to help oversee their care. However, I do believe our skills can be valuable in a secondary position, working WITH the rn if we are not scrubbed in (ie: opening a room, helping with pt positioning and padding-- which we ARE taught in our 2-yr schooling--running for supplies so the rn doesn't have to leave the room, answering docs beepers, etc.). And as for when the s**t hits the fan...it happens quite often in L&D. Just because I'm a cst does not mean that I lose my head and start whimpering in a corner everytime there's an emergency section or a code on the table (neonatal or adult). I follow my scope (which is usually running during codes unless I'm scrubbed in) and do what I can to help in a quick and efficient manner. I fully realize that there are techs (as well as rn's) that are lazy, incompetent, and pretty much useless. I think every profession has a few of those, I believe it's due to one's work ethic, not whether you spent 2 years getting a st degree vs. 2 years getting an rn.

    And I don't know about where all of the negative posters work, but here the rn's, techs, and doctors all work together to....****, IMAGINE THIS....give the patient the best possible care, and make them as comfortable as we can while they are in the hospital.

    A lot of the posters should be ashamed of the comments they wrote. I think we all (techs, rn's, doctors, lpn's...even housekeeping) have our specific role in the hospital...our little niche to work from. And I think it says a lot about one's character to belittle someone who isn't on your *perceived* level.

    I can't remember who said it, but I believe this rough paraphrase fits this thread well:

    "Judge a man not by how he treats his equals, but by how he treats those beneath him."
  9. by   Marie_LPN, RN
    Quote from giaryan
    I have to agree.....I am so very tired of Nurses and STs feeling hostility....the whole philosophyof the Operating Room is teamwork....how can that be accomplished if there are those that insist that there is competition on the same team!!!
    Treating each other as human beings would be a start, though in some situations, the one who starts that stays as the Lone Ranger for a long time.
  10. by   cristinak
    well i have a question.. i know this is a debate about circulating and such, but i wanted to know outside of the OR do some RN's or other OR staff have the same "attitude" toward the ST's. or is it just in the OR theater? I mean if its also outside of the OR that cant make for a very healthy work enviroment, can it??
  11. by   Marie_LPN, RN
    At my job, the hostility is on the entire floor with just a few, thank goodness.

    One of my preceptors is CONSTANTLY running her mouth about her opinions ("Only RNs belong in THIS dept., LPNs and techs are useless, and will stay that way, so i don't see why the hell they let you people in here."). Nothing like having a preceptor who puts your profession down with any intake of air, but, hey, it's her blood pressure lol.

    And it's her opinion. Which she's entitled to think what she wants, but i have to laugh to myself when she talks about the hostile work enviroment. Hell, she's part of the problem she's whining about!

    Why do i put up with it? Well for starters, it's a daily reminder of how NOT to be when i continue on with my education, or even now. And secondly, i enjoy a challenge and i'll be ****ed if she's going to be my reason for a complaint. She will not get to me that way, i won't give her the satisfaction.
  12. by   cristinak
    i just want to make sure that when i do graduate, i wont find any hostility as soon as i walk in the door to a job interview.. I want to be treated fairly based on my personality and my skills as a ST. I dont want people to judge me based on my career. I could and my be the best ST that comes out of my class but if people or already aggrevated at even the thought of an ST, then I really have no chance at making a good working atmosphere for myself.. what to do ?
  13. by   x3_mom
    Quote from cristinak
    i just want to make sure that when i do graduate, i wont find any hostility as soon as i walk in the door to a job interview.. I want to be treated fairly based on my personality and my skills as a ST. I dont want people to judge me based on my career. I could and my be the best ST that comes out of my class but if people or already aggrevated at even the thought of an ST, then I really have no chance at making a good working atmosphere for myself.. what to do ?
    Cristinak, most Surgery department RNs and Surg Techs do not have a problem, the problem lies with the few who do not or will not understand that Surg Techs are here to stay and so are RNs. Both are useful in the OR, we compliment each orthers strengths and weaknesses. It will be a very rare instance for an OR to be fully staffed by RNs, especially due to the nursing shortage. I have and do work with some excellent RNs, LVNs, and Techs, I have also worked with some very bad ones.

    In my experience a problem is typically created because someone feels threatened, or if someone is incompetent. If you are competent and your co-workers are compent then there should be no problems.

    Remember everyone in the OR is a TEAM, if the RN needs assistance and the Tech is capable and competent at the task then there should be no problems.

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