Pts abusing "cultural/religious" practices to manipulate RNs - page 5

This has been bugging me for a while. A few weeks ago, we had a postpartum patient who is Jewish (Orthodox), which means that they won't do "work" on their Sabbath (sundown on Friday until... Read More

  1. by   MomNRN
    Warning - thread hijack alert:

    I learned alot from reading this thread. We have very few Orthodox Jewish people in our area (if any). I had no idea of their beliefs.

    Thanks!
  2. by   dragonflyRN
    Regardless of beliefs in whatever faith, things have changed. When I had my first, the nurses wanted him. I had my second....they offered to take him. I had my third and I didn't have a choice. I had him with me all of the time. This is where I would have appreciated a little help.
  3. by   Yuliya3
    Quote from Quickbeam
    I think you meant Jehovah's Witness. There is no prohibition for SDAs against taking transfusions. Individuals may choose that, probably, but nothing in the corporate faith. My church has blood drives!

    No intent to hijack here...just wanted to clarify. I am an SDA and we get confused with other faiths all the time.
    I did mean Jehovah's Witness. I was just typing too fast to think. We did have a lot of SDA patients, that's probably how it got into my head. Sorry.
  4. by   SmilingBluEyes
    I do not think it is reasonable to give a mom a whole night's sleep without interruption, esp if she is breastfeeding. PART OF MY JOB is to ensure mom and baby are bonding and the parents are able and ready to care for the newborn when they go home. I have to document on these things in my nurses' notes, especially if things are not going well or normally. And believe me, if issues come up later, a nurse CAN be subpeona'd to court to give depositions as to mom/baby relations in the hospital, in extreme cases. How do I know? Cause it happened to me in a case of extreme neglect, and my notes along with those of the other nurses, were used and we were questioned by attorneys in the courthouse in this case.

    So it's not about being judgemental, but about doing my job. And if I feel a social service visit is warranted and I don't follow up, I can be called on the carpet for this later on. And rightfully so!

    So yes, it's important new parents be given a break when we can, but we have a short time to help them assume care and to observe how they do taking over the care of their newborn babies. Our priority is not to give uninterrupted sleep to new parents in the hospital if they are well, and their babies are also. It is not our job to entirely defer to their demands, if they are unreasonable. It IS our job to ensure to the best of our ability, they are able to care for themselves and babies and/or have good support networks when they go home.
    Last edit by SmilingBluEyes on Dec 7, '06
  5. by   Josifek
    Give the poor woman a break! She's tired and has paid a lot of money to have the baby in your hospital and would like to use your services of keeping the baby in the nursery overnight. Maybe it's these "call CPS at the drop of a hat" attitudes that keep her from coming out and saying "I'm tired, please take the baby for a while". Instead she exaggerates her religious practices hoping you will be a bit more sympathetic than if she just came out and admitted she's not super mom. Put down your stones and place yourself in her shoes for a moment. Do you want to be reported to CPS when you get tired as well?
  6. by   SmilingBluEyes
    It was not about "please take my baby for a while" that concerned many of us. Refusal to care for a baby, even to feed the child, is a cause for concern and investigation. Not necessarily a CPS call and hold, but at the least, a good and thorough assessment by the nurses responsible for their care and if needed, yes, a referral to social services personnel, if a problem is truly suspected.

    Since none of us was there, it's hard to say what ALL the social dynamics were in the situation, but frankly, it would have me a bit concerned, based on what I read here.
  7. by   SuperFlyRN
    Quote from SmilingBluEyes
    I do not think it is reasonable to give a mom a whole night's sleep without interruption, esp if she is breastfeeding. PART OF MY JOB is to ensure mom and baby are bonding and the parents are able and ready to care for the newborn when they go home. I have to document on these things in my nurses' notes, especially if things are not going well or normally. And believe me, if issues come up later, a nurse CAN be subpeona'd to court to give depositions as to mom/baby relations in the hospital, in extreme cases. How do I know? Cause it happened to me in a case of extreme neglect, and my notes along with those of the other nurses, were used and we were questioned by attorneys in the courthouse in this case.

    So it's not about being judgemental, but about doing my job. And if I feel a social service visit is warranted and I don't follow up, I can be called on the carpet for this later on. And rightfully so!

    So yes, it's important new parents be given a break when we can, but we have a short time to help them assume care and to observe how they do taking over the care of their newborn babies. Our priority is not to give uninterrupted sleep to new parents in the hospital if they are well, and their babies are also. It is not our job to entirely defer to their demands, if they are unreasonable. It IS our job to ensure to the best of our ability, they are able to care for themselves and babies and/or have good support networks when they go home.
    I totally agree. Part of my job is to help teach the new parents. In our facility we do not even HAVE a nursery. Every baby rooms-in and total care is taken by the new parents. When they are given their pre-natal tours they are explained that it is expected that a support person stay (pref. Dad) to assist the new mom. We have had babies that were taken out for the night and they are literally left at the desk (as long as a nurse is there we can do this, but with our current shortage it is hard-emergency bell goes off and someone has to stay behind with the baby so we try to discourage this) and then the mom wants to go home and she is asking a million and one questions that had her baby been in her care she would have picked up on some of those "cues". My "normal" PP assignment when I work PP is 4-5 moms and 4-5 babies. If I take even one of those babies and I am tied up with a patient, someone at the desk (that has a very similiar assignment) is left to care for "my" baby. It just does not work in our facility unfortunately. We have had patients request to baby be removed from the room and mom and dad or mom and grandma are both staying, I don't see the logic in this.
    They are with us such a short time-24 hours for NSVD and 60-72 hours for c/s-that every precious moment counts.
    We have not had a nursery in our hospital in six years.
  8. by   dragonflyRN
    Regardless of faith, did anyone stop to think on how the units have changed over the years? 11 years ago, the nurses got my babe at night. They wanted him....they wanted me to rest. Now? Pop the kid out and take care of it on your own.
  9. by   purplemania
    and who is feeding the baby now that they are home???????????
  10. by   dragonflyRN
    ??? I just went from one hospital experience to another. I wanted to be the l&d nurse at one time. I don't see it in my future. I loved my ld nurse when i had my first. Now? they don't seem to care about the child or me....so what's the point
  11. by   GardenDove
    Yes, some have made that very point. 29 years ago, when I was pregnant with my first son, the hospital in Albuquerque NM had a rule that they took the babe for the first hour of life. Then they let you have it if they decided it was okay. You had to attend a childbirth class with your husband, so he could attend the delivery. I balked at this controlling attitude and had my first homebirth, and never looked back.

    Now, it sounds to me like OB is still a bunch of control freaks, only they've taken an about face. Now they're ready to report you to CPS if you don't 'bond' to their expectations with your babe. They critisize you if your husband isn't staying the night, if you dare put your baby on it's stomach you are viewed as an ignorant nutcase.

    The only consistancy here is that OB nurses want to boss around their pts, and limit their choices. They know best and their pts are 'noncompliant' airheads if they want a different choice. They are not there to meet their pts' needs on the pt's agenda, respecting different philosophies and approaches, but the nurse knows best (even if medicine decides 20 years later that, whoops, we were doing it wrong all along, and comes up with some new way that they want to impose on the hapless moms).

    My point with this rant is, Respect your pts wishes whenever possible. If you don't have the staff to watch their baby safely, explain that instead of putting them on a guilt trip for wanting sleep. Give them choices, give them options, and tolerate them when those choices differ from your own. Ease their way gently, don't intimidate, and respect their rights to take what they want from the healthcare system on their own terms.
    Last edit by GardenDove on Dec 7, '06
  12. by   SmilingBluEyes
    This is room in the middle for what is best. Extremes on either end, never work. I am through with this thread. Carry on.
  13. by   babyktchr
    .

    Oh my. I, too, have learned so much from reading this thread. There are so many different cultural nuances, it is hard to keep up. It is good to know there are so many resources (you as nurses) on the Jewish faith. Thank you for your input.

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