Non-viable baby, born alive -parent won't hold him, what do you do? - page 7

OK, so here's what happened - and it's not the first time we've had this dilemma. We had a pt come in with severe, unmedicated schizophrenia, homeless, and imminently going to deliver a 21-22wk... Read More

  1. by   fergus51
    Quote from cardiacRN2006
    It doesn't matter when you have sex, it matters when you ovulate. The day you ovulate your egg either gets fertilized within 12 hours or it dies. That's the day of conception. Many women chart their cycles and know exactly when they ovulate (some down to the hour). I could write a book on this-but thankfully it's already been written (Take charge of you Fertility). Are you trying for another??? I've got some great tips!
    It's pretty accurate for women with consistent cycles and those that are paying attention. I've worked in mat-child too long to think that it's the case for all women. I can't tell you how many "42 weekers" I've seen come out with vernix and how many "24 weekers" come out looking much older.
  2. by   cardiacRN2006
    Quote from fergus51
    It's pretty accurate for women with consistent cycles and those that are paying attention. I've worked in mat-child too long to think that it's the case for all women. I can't tell you how many "42 weekers" I've seen come out with vernix and how many "24 weekers" come out looking much older.

    By no means do most women chart their cycles. Those that do know more than you would ever want to know about their personal fertility. You don't need to have regular cycles though, just a thermometer.

    I am also suprised that people don't know that they are pregnant or how far along they are. The wheel that they use to determine dates is only accurate for a very small amount of women. So women will go in and find out they are pregnant, a doctor will spin the wheel and base it on a 14 day ovulation and give the woman her due date. Those are rarely accurate.
  3. by   CEG
    Not a nurse yet but I just wanted to add my .02 on the dating.

    I charted/used Taking Charge of Your Fertility with my pregnancies. With my DD I knew I conceived 2 weeks later than my doc calculated due to delayed ovulation. When I brought it up with docs I was told that I was wrong. DD arrived 14 days after my due date...

    This time I know my due date is accurate based on my charting.

    I know most women don't use this method. In fact most people say "You check your own cervix!!???!" but those who chart should be pretty accurate.

    Quote from cardiacRN2006
    By no means do most women chart their cycles. Those that do know more than you would ever want to know about their personal fertility. You don't need to have regular cycles though, just a thermometer.

    I am also suprised that people don't know that they are pregnant or how far along they are. The wheel that they use to determine dates is only accurate for a very small amount of women. So women will go in and find out they are pregnant, a doctor will spin the wheel and base it on a 14 day ovulation and give the woman her due date. Those are rarely accurate.
  4. by   cardiacRN2006
    Quote from CEG
    Not a nurse yet but I just wanted to add my .02 on the dating.

    I charted/used Taking Charge of Your Fertility with my pregnancies. With my DD I knew I conceived 2 weeks later than my doc calculated due to delayed ovulation. When I brought it up with docs I was told that I was wrong. DD arrived 14 days after my due date...

    This time I know my due date is accurate based on my charting.

    I know most women don't use this method. In fact most people say "You check your own cervix!!???!" but those who chart should be pretty accurate.

    Definately. Unless a woman has a perfect cycle with no chance of stress in the last month or illness and she always ovulates on day 14 there is a big chance that the doctor who uses the wheel is inaccurate in their due date estimation. And yes, this is just an estimation, but it can vary by several weeks, especially if the woman had implantation bleeding and irregular cycles. This can change the dates by up to 6 weeks.
  5. by   Liddle Noodnik
    You guys, I am weeping - God bless you for what you do - not letting them die alone (and I really wanted to do maternity at one point - my hospitals said you had to have L&D experience)

    I don't know how you do it - so sad - I wouldn't be able to let them be alone either. God bless you guys and thank you so much for being there!
  6. by   Liddle Noodnik
    Quote from shannymar
    wow. thank all of you for being angels on earth. you truly are what makes this world great. i don't have the courage that which you do. thank you. :kiss

    Shannon

    Shannon
    -Loving wife to Zechariah
    -Mommy to Kayla Maylin born April 3, 2005 7 lbs. 3 oz. Had two strokes at birth due to the a high homocysteine level caused by the MTHFR genetic mutation. And she is absolutely PERFECT!!! Kids have strokes too! All life is fragile...
    -and future CNA and Nurse!

    {{{{{{{{{{{{Kayla}}}}}}}}}}] that is a hug but also a prayer hedge of protecton - she's a tough girl, huh? Bless you Mom and Dad
  7. by   Liddle Noodnik
    Quote from mjlrn97
    Please, let's look at this from a parent's point of view and not be quite so judgmental about "not wanting" the baby.

    I was a 25-year-old emotional train wreck when my full-term, 6-pound 9-oz. anencephalic daughter was delivered by C-section, many years ago. I couldn't handle the idea of seeing her, much less holding her, at that time, and while I wish to Heaven I'd been strong enough, I simply wasn't. My husband did see and hold her during her 7 hours on earth; he was also with the priest when she was baptized, and with me when my doctor came in to tell me she was gone.

    I thank God he was able to deal, because I couldn't, and the guilt I felt then still is with me in some ways. But as much as I wish I could've done things differently, I've come to the realization that I did only what I could at the time.........if anyone had forced me to hold my dying child, I think I'd have literally gone crazy. I was young, emotionally immature, and I was so close to hysteria that I spent an entire night with the blankets over my head, screaming silently, wishing I were dead alongside my daughter.........the only thing that kept me from crying out loud was the desire not to end up in the psych ward.

    So that's why I ask that you put yourselves in the place of a young mother for a moment and try to understand why one might not want to see or touch the baby. Yes, she may wind up regretting it---God knows I do---but everyone deals with things in their own way, and our job as nurses is to support them regardless of how we feel about their decision.

    In the meantime, you're right about not letting babies die alone.......I thank the Lord that there was a nurse to hold my child as she took her last breath, and I bless that woman every day for being there for her.

    {{{{{{{{{{{mjl}}}}}}}}}} I think it would have been that way for me too - it's not just immature but some of us feel so much - I think however you had to survive at the time was good - you knew better than anyone!
  8. by   Liddle Noodnik
    Quote from DeeSki
    I read all these posts and cried my eyes out . It is so amazing to see all of the nurses with so much love and compassion. I have to say I have not experienced that brand of nursing care here in NY. My oldest son was born five weeks early, weighed 6 lbs 8oz. Doesn't seem very small but he couldn't breath and eat so he was placed in the NICU. The nurses there were the pits. At least they were when I was around to see, maybe they were loving when I was back in my room :uhoh21: . It got so bad that I had to get my husband (ex now) and pediatrician up to the hospital to "save" my baby from the NICU nurses! He was oozing what looked like ground beef from the sites on his head where the internal monitors had been placed and they wouldn't even let me feed him because they were "busy". Those oozing sites were scars under his hair for the rest of his life. He did leave the hospital in good shape and turned out to be very healthy and so smart (IQ of 141). We survived the NICU. That was eighteen years ago. Tomorrow is the 10th anniversary of his death. He survived at birth but ultimately died accidentally-tragically 8 years later. The Trauma nurses left crying that day. What can I say but that God works in mysterious ways. I often read all the posts in the different specialty areas to help decide what area of nursing I'd like to go into. I know I love L&D, NICU and ED but sometimes I wonder how I could care for a dying child and stay detached. KWIM?

    {{{{{{{{{{Dee}}}}}}}}}}}] Are you in school now, can you get some of those experiences before you graduate?

    I would be scared to try but that's me. It sounds like you went thru a heck of a lot of hurt in so short a time, you got to keep him 8 years, that was priceless. You have to follow your heart - grief is different for all of us. I'm sad for you - glad that you are able to explore this! Take good care Dee!
  9. by   Liddle Noodnik
    Quote from TweetiePieRN
    All of these posts made me cry my eyes out!! I just had my first baby in July 2005 (he is fine). I just noticed that since I have become a mother it is much much harder for me to hear stories or see children/babies in pain or suffering, etc. Before I had the baby, stories like these would upset me, but I actually feel the sadness in my BONES and deep in my heart now. Is this normal? Do others moms feel this too?

    I know I do - mine is 18 - it hits me to the core!

    Part of it I think is that my mom told me some years ago that she almost had me aborted - and she had NEVER seemed happy with me. So I think of these babes that people DESPERATELY wanted - and couldn't - and I have my Tom - and I just cry for those moms and mostly those babies - that have NO idea what is going on. Big sigh ...

    Congrats to you, and to Melissa up above you there!
  10. by   wannabeL&D73
    Oh, I totally agree that those who chart are accurate, and I am also familiar with the book (may be dusting it off again in a few months). But I don't actually know anyone in real life who does chart...I just think those women are the exceptions.

    Shannon
  11. by   cardiacRN2006
    Quote from wannabeL&D73
    Oh, I totally agree that those who chart are accurate, and I am also familiar with the book (may be dusting it off again in a few months). But I don't actually know anyone in real life who does chart...I just think those women are the exceptions.

    Shannon
    Check of fertilityfriend.com
    You will see thousands and thousands of women who chart.
  12. by   LiliRN
    Quote from DutchgirlRN
    I was in a situation about 15 years ago where a young woman came in alone and delievered at 22 wks. It was about 0400 and myself and the other nurse delivered the baby. We were in a small rural hospital.

    We called the ER doctor to come up stat. He picked the baby up from off of the bed and said to the young woman "I'm sorry your baby was born dead". He handed the baby to me and I was going to hand it to the Mom and he said "No clean the baby up first". The Mom was crying so hard she didn't say anything.

    When I got the baby to the nursery I noticed that he was alive. I ran to get the ER doctor. He said to me in the hall. "I know the child is alive but he doesn't have a chance, Let him die, clean him up and let the Mom hold him. We don't need to get sued for doing nothing." I stayed with him for 4 hours in the nursery and rocked him until he died. I let one of the day nurses take him to his Mom and I went home.

    The entire time I was rocking him I felt so guilty that it was me and not the Mom holding him. I've often wondered if he had been born at Vanderbilt would he have lived? I do know that if I had it to do over again I would have taken him to his Mama no matter what the ER doctor had said. At the time I was scared of doctors and was not the least aggressive as I am now.
    I don't understand, maybe I'm not getting something. If the Dr. said clean him up and take him to his mother, why did you hold him for 4 hours? Why didnt' you just give him to the mom right after you cleaned him? Does it take 4 hours to clean a baby?
  13. by   wannabeL&D73
    [QUOTE=cardiacRN2006]Check of fertilityfriend.com
    You will see thousands and thousands of women who chart.[/QUOTE

    I know! it is amazing how many women do! But I have never met anyone in real life who has done it...I guess I just must have really fertile friends IRL or something!

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