Circumcisions-Question - page 3

I am currently posting on another board regarding circumcisions. Nonono... I'm not here to debate the topic all over again! :) What I want to know is this, for you OB nurses or Peds nurses, are you... Read More

  1. by   Spidey's mom
    Quote from StuNurseUP
    Feamle genital mutilation cannot be compared with male circumcision.
    Totally different procedure done for totally different reasons
    I agree - and it actually would preclude orgasm in women if the clitoris was gone . . . not the same as foreskin at all.

    steph
  2. by   fergus51
    Quote from Bipley
    I'm looking for an education here so I am not claiming this is fact, I'm asking.

    IF only the clitoral hood is removed (assuming skillfully however we all know it isn't done in a skillful manner) wouldn't that be similar to a male circ? It doesn't stop sexual stimulation, it just ... slows it down a bit, isn't this true?

    I'm trying to understand the difference between JUST the removal of the cliteral hood vs. removal of the foreskin in a male.

    Yes, it could well be Sunna vs. Summa. I was going by memory.

    I can't find any useful reasons for either type of circ, female or male. It's painful, it removes a functioning part of the human body, and it is for silly reasons. I just don't understand the reasons behind circs done on a routine basis.
    If they just remove the clitoral hood, I do think it's similar to male circumcision. The reasons most opponents of FGM have worked very hard to stop people from calling it female circumcision is that it isn't similar to male circumcision most of the time. It usually involves far more cutting and is done for a different reason entirely. It is truly mutilation. No one is doing a male circumcision because of the fear of male sexuality and men who are or are not circumcised in our culture don't deal with the same issues as women who don't undergo FGM in other cultures.

    Routine male circs are done for parent preference period. There are no true health benefits to warrant routine infant circs, that's why no pediatric group recommends it anymore. It is generally done because parents think it's cleaner, better looking, what they are accustomed to, they want baby to look like dad, they don't want their son to be made fun of or they have heard about some man needing to get it done later in life and want to avoid that chance.
  3. by   fergus51
    Quote from stevielynn
    I agree - and it actually would preclude orgasm in women if the clitoris was gone . . . not the same as foreskin at all.

    steph
    That's actually not necessarily so. Women who can climax from penetration are sometimes still able to climax despite the outer genitals being removed.
  4. by   Spidey's mom
    Quote from fergus51
    That's actually not necessarily so. Women who can climax from penetration are sometimes still able to climax despite the outer genitals being removed.
    hmmmm . . . . the penetration included rubbing against the clitoris, which triggers the orgasm and penetration alone does not . . . . in my own little personal opinion anyway.

    Still, even if some women can still achieve an orgasm (which I cannot imagine), you are right about the reason being completely different than circumcision.

    And if I had it to do over again, and I had a husband who agreed of course, I would not do it.

    I can barely even watch anymore. Especially when the doc who uses no pain med prior is the one doing the circ.

    steph
  5. by   MNlpn
    I use to float to our OB unit now and then, and I got in on watching a circ being done one morning. OH MY GOD...that poor little boy....screamed bloody murder Maybe I'm biased because I'm a guy but I say leave well enough alone!! If it aint broke...dont fix it! Poor little guys don't even get a say in the matter
  6. by   daisybaby
    Quote from Bipley
    I found my thread! ;o)))) (Thanks to staff for moving it!)

    Question... how does circing breast babies disrupt breastfeeding? This is something I have never heard of before.
    According to our LC (a transplant to our NY facility from the west coast), circing a newborn (ours are sometimes done within 12 hours of delivery) disrupts breastfeeding because often a recently circ'd baby will go into 'recovery mode', ie, sleeping lots and being fussy while awake, so that it's sometimes difficult to get a good latch that next 12 to 24 hours. By then, mom and baby are usually d/c home without a solid two days of breastfeeding. Not too many staff share her views, however.

    ETA: I just read through the thread and saw the link for the circ/breastfeeding article. Guess our LC (according to that article) was right!
    Last edit by daisybaby on Dec 14, '05
  7. by   Bipley
    Quote from stevielynn
    I agree - and it actually would preclude orgasm in women if the clitoris was gone . . . not the same as foreskin at all.

    steph
    No, not all FGM requires removing the clitoris. They remove the hood, or in some cases they split the hood but the clitoris is otherwise intact. It does not stop orgasm, it does essentially the same as male circs, it reduces sensation.

    It is not always done to keep the woman from experiencing orgasm, it is done for similar reasons as males. The "belief" is that without circs the risk of CA is higher, etc. It's done for health issues however just as in male circs, there are no real health issues and certainly none that outweigh the risk and pain for either one.
  8. by   mstigerlily
    I see this a lot. I've had babies that were csection to begin with, thus spitty and sleepy, so haven't latched in 12-24 hrs at all. To top it off, on occasion one will be coombs + or getting jaundiced - even under phototherapy thus getting MORE dehydrated and MORE thirsty - and the peds think nothing of circing this baby at that time. So any tiny progress I made getting that baby latched and feeding is destroyed and I must start all over because now baby is sleeping for 5-6 hours sleeping off his big day. Then by the time he wakes up he's now over 24 hrs old and starving to death, then mom either ends up supplementing or baby goes into a mad clusterfeed and mom ends up sobbing at 2am with raw nipples.
    :uhoh21:

    Apparently the mad rush in getting them circed is a lot of insurance won't pay for it once you're out of the hospital. Or, parents don't want to bring the baby in to the office to get it done there, they want it "taken care of" prior to discharge home.

    Quote from daisybaby
    According to our LC (a transplant to our NY facility from the west coast), circing a newborn (ours are sometimes done within 12 hours of delivery) disrupts breastfeeding because often a recently circ'd baby will go into 'recovery mode', ie, sleeping lots and being fussy while awake, so that it's sometimes difficult to get a good latch that next 12 to 24 hours. By then, mom and baby are usually d/c home without a solid two days of breastfeeding. Not too many staff share her views, however.

    ETA: I just read through the thread and saw the link for the circ/breastfeeding article. Guess our LC (according to that article) was right!
  9. by   RNnL&D
    Quote from daisybaby
    According to our LC (a transplant to our NY facility from the west coast), circing a newborn (ours are sometimes done within 12 hours of delivery) disrupts breastfeeding because often a recently circ'd baby will go into 'recovery mode', ie, sleeping lots and being fussy while awake, so that it's sometimes difficult to get a good latch that next 12 to 24 hours. By then, mom and baby are usually d/c home without a solid two days of breastfeeding. Not too many staff share her views, however.

    ETA: I just read through the thread and saw the link for the circ/breastfeeding article. Guess our LC (according to that article) was right!
    I see this frequently. I always suggest nursing baby before a circ, because, IME, they are very sleepy for HOURS after the procedure. If baby isn't nursing well to begin with, well, there you go......
  10. by   Mimi2RN
    We have around 400 deliveries a month, so say 50% of those are male, only one doc does circs at the hospital, maybe 6 a month. I am assuming that some babies are circed in the Peds office, but not many. In this city, I would think that maybe half of the Caucasian babies are circed, and probably none of the Hispanic kids. We have many different ethnic groups, but it seems to be the white American boys that suffer, not the European or Laotian immigrant babies.

    Most of our newborns are cared for by our Ped Hospitalists, and none of them do circs.

    The doc who does them in the hospital uses what I think looks like an instrument of torture, a Gomco Clamp. We have had the Plastibells around for years, never used.
  11. by   Spidey's mom
    Quote from Mimi2RN
    We have around 400 deliveries a month, so say 50% of those are male, only one doc does circs at the hospital, maybe 6 a month. I am assuming that some babies are circed in the Peds office, but not many. In this city, I would think that maybe half of the Caucasian babies are circed, and probably none of the Hispanic kids. We have many different ethnic groups, but it seems to be the white American boys that suffer, not the European or Laotian immigrant babies.

    Most of our newborns are cared for by our Ped Hospitalists, and none of them do circs.

    The doc who does them in the hospital uses what I think looks like an instrument of torture, a Gomco Clamp. We have had the Plastibells around for years, never used.
    Ya know, I think that every time I see a circ . . . .that it would make a great torture device.

    steph

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