Can you be pro-life and an OB/GYN nurse at the same time? - page 3

I think the subject line sums it up... :chair:... Read More

  1. by   KarenAR
    Originally posted by mother/babyRN
    Refusing to care for a pt to me, is akin to pt abandonment. I would prefer not to take care of some people but that wouldn't make me a great nurse. It would make me a judgemental one...
    Originally posted by howie122832
    Whatever happened to to being non-judgemental? I would never have an abortion myself, but I don't believe that it is professional nor ethical to express my beliefs on my patients. Just make sure you never take a job where you would ever be in that situation!

    I hope that I made it clear earlier in the discussion that I am not talking about abandoning a patient. I simply do not want to have to participate in the ACTUAL PROCEDURE. I am happy to take care of the patient before, after, and possibly even during the abortion. I just don't want to have a hand in what I consider to be taking a human life.

    I am also not talking about judging the patients. I have no interest whatsoever in proselytizing to patients or other nurses about abortion. I do not judge them in the least. My beliefs also tell me, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." So I will be throwing no stones.

    I simply know what I am morally comfortable with. It would be nice to know that my colleagues are not judging ME -- or assuming me to be judgmental -- for having beliefs different from theirs.

    Just because I'm pro-life doesn't mean I'm judgmental of people who aren't. It simply means I don't want to help PERFORM abortions.
  2. by   KarenAR
    Originally posted by HazeK
    As a nurse, you have a right to your own belief and values!

    You have a right to restrict your practice to nursing situations that you are morally comfortable with!

    You do NOT have a right to IMPOSE your belief and values on others!
    *******
    Haze, thank you - you said that so well! I agree with this and the rest of your post wholeheartedly.

  3. by   webbiedebbie
    I am also pro-life and worked in a hospital that does abortions. They were started in L&D then the patients were brought to Postpartum to deliver. I told the manager that on my interview that I was willing to take care of the ptient afterwards, but I didn't know that they delivered on our unit and the nurses did the delivery w/o a physician present. I wasn't comfortable with that part!
  4. by   mother/babyRN
    So, if you had difficulty with some of the high risks behaviors ( "you" meaning any of us), associated with AIDs or hepatitis , would you feel justified in asking or choosing not to care for those patients? In our facility if it can't be worked out between staff members and the particular pt is yours and you refuse, you will be fired...
  5. by   greyhorse
    I work in a catholic hospital. There are no abortions, no tubals (unless during a c-section and has already been approved by board of hospital as medically in best interest of pt). If pts ask nurses about birth control we are to refer the pt to their primary physician, we are not to discuss this with the pt. These are the hospital policies, staff follows them if they want to work in this hospital.
  6. by   KarenAR
    Originally posted by mother/babyRN
    So, if you had difficulty with some of the high risks behaviors ( "you" meaning any of us), associated with AIDs or hepatitis , would you feel justified in asking or choosing not to care for those patients? In our facility if it can't be worked out between staff members and the particular pt is yours and you refuse, you will be fired...
    No, I see that as an entirely different situation. I'm not talking about having difficulty with patients' behaviors or health issues and then not wanting to care for them. We go into this profession to care for others where they are, no matter their circumstances.

    What I'm talking about is *assisting in the procedure*. To me, assisting with abortion is akin to assisting with euthanasia. I can understand the reasons, I can empathize with the people involved, I can care for the patient, but I don't want to help with the PROCEDURE.

    It is frustrating to me that many people don't understand what I mean about caring for the patient but not helping with the procedure. I don't know if I am not being clear, or if people who don't agree just don't want to hear what I'm saying...

    Maybe this will help clarify:
    I will care for a drug abuser, but I won't give him heroin.
    I will care for an HIV+ patient, but I won't get him a hooker.
    I will care for a crack mother, but I won't give her more crack.
    I will care for a dying patient, but won't help her overdose.
    I will care for a patient having an abortion, but I don't think I should be forced to help perform the abortion.

    What about the following scenario?
    Suppose you're a geriatric nurse who believes euthanasia is morally wrong. If euthanasia were declared legal in the U.S. tomorrow, do you feel you should be required to give overdoses anytime your geri patients chose to go that route, even though you feel it is morally wrong? Do you feel you should be required to participate in a procedure that you feel is morally wrong?
  7. by   Owney
    You pro-lifers out there really ought to think some more. How many of you have had to choose? I did. When we found out my wife was pregnant I was in school and the last thing we needed was another mouth to feed. Since abortion was the latest and simplest form of birth control and, wasn't everybody doing it, since the Supreme Court said it was OK? (Actually it never did say it's OK, just none of the governments business). After seeing how delighted my wife was at the news of her pregancy, I quickly banished all thought of "an elective termination of pregnancy."

    What is sorely lacking in our culture is any consideration of father's rights or responsibilities. Didn't half of the chromosomes in every human being come from their father? Shouldn't he have some say as to whether his child should be killed or he will be sentenced to 18 years of child support? You mean he wasn't there when his child was concieved? My son is now 31 years old and every time I see him I am reminded of what a treasure God gave me. If we had chosen the ETP route we would have never had any children because three years later, my wife had ovarian cancer and had to have a pan hysterectomy.

    Do any of you remember the first time you saw expelled products of conception? Do you remember being with a co-worker as she looks at them for the first time? The most frequent remark I hear is, "I didn't expect it to look like that--I expected to see something that looks like a fish--but that's a tiny person!"

    Being a male in a profession that is 95% female, I believe in Women's rights. What makes me more liberal than most folks is that I believe in a Woman's right to chose FROM THE TIME SHE IS CONCIEVED. I describe my position not as pro-life (since I have no problem with any SAFER form of birth control). I would say that I am anti-death. Planned Parenthood has sold abortion as the ideal form of birth control since they have made it such a handy way for them to make millions from it.

    I try not to get too preachy about it, 'cause as soon as I am reminded what a tiny minority I am, I get pretty uncomfortable. I tried to discuss my moral position with the chaplain in the last place I worked where we sucked out babies, but they were always too busy to talk to me.

    I haven't worked any place that bumped off babies for a couple of years now but I have managed to help deliver a couple. That's so much more fun than watching folks die. In my next life I wanna be an L&D nurse.


    :roll
  8. by   fergus51
    Owney, I can respect and even agree with almost everything you said.... Except the notion that Planned Parenthood (or any organisation for that matter) has billed abortion as the ideal form of birth control. I don't know how you can even think that's close to true.
  9. by   Dave ARNP
    Edited by Dave.

    Karen, no one can tell you that you have to assist in this procedure. Just like no one can tell me that I have to refer someone for it. Even as an Ob/Gyn, no one can tell my wife she has to perform it.

    If your hospital is so petty and concerned about the almighty $$$ that they force you into something that is aginst your morals, then I personally don't see as how anyone needs to be involved with them

    Fergus, it amazes me that you say PP has not made abortion a birth control alternative. They are one of the head people who we can thank for its popularity.

    Dave, who is very, very, very Pro-life.
    Last edit by MD Terminator on Jan 3, '04
  10. by   fergus51
    I didn't say they hadn't made it an alternative, I said they haven't promoted it as the ideal method. Even an idiot can see that abortions are more time consuming and expensive than getting a shot or taking a pill or buying condoms. Planned Parenthood counsels women about these methods primarily. They don't say "Oh don't worry about birth control, you can just get abortions". I have never even heard my most prolife friends suggest that they do. I don't have to tell you that abortions provide no protection against HIV or other STDs, which is what has made condoms one of the main focuses at birth control clinics.
  11. by   ktwlpn
    Originally posted by KarenAR
    I think the subject line sums it up...


    Sure- Your job is simply to care for the patient-not try to convert them to your beliefs.......
  12. by   acuteobrn
    I guess I stand on the pro-life/pro-choice line. I have my own personal reasons and own personal beliefs and morals. Depends on the situation, as I am not the one standing in their shoes making that choice.

    I strongly believe ethic committees should be involved if the gestation is far enough to bring them to an L/D unit in the first place.

    I also STRONGLY believe in the right to make a professional decision on where you stand and that the hospital should support this, as they made their own decisions whether or not to allow the practice in the first place.

    There are some very good posts that bring up very good points. Interesting discussion re-hashed. This is just my opinion on this and it is especially clear to me that I have made a commitment to take care of patients and not take sides in this unless faced w/ the situation and the facts first. I try and be open minded--which is not always an easy thing to do when emotions come into play.
  13. by   mother/babyRN
    You most certainly be pro life and pro choice....Of course....If you were for euthanasia would that prevent you from caring for a patient who chooses to have everything done for him or her....Or, if against euthanasia in an environment which embraces the idea, would you not care for the patient who needed you?

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