Entry into Practice: Direct Entry MSN Programs - page 9
Direct entry msn programs are approximately three years in length. They provide basic nursing curricula during the first year or so of the program (pre-licensure phase), with graduate core courses... Read More
Jan 6, '10This is a very clever strategy for bypassing the traditional rites of passage to enter the nursing profession. In my community, it makes little difference whether one has a 2 year, 3 year or BSN degree - employers simply want to hire RN's at the lowest possible wages. Once a nurse applies for a job with an advanced degree it is another situation entirely. Then it becomes a question of extending a physician for the lowest possible wages with the credentials to be eligible.
Jan 8, '10I couldn't imagine even going through an accelerated bachelors of nursing... and because I wanted to save money, I got my ADN - and it was way harder than my Bachelors in Information Systems. Now I face an extraordinarily slow route to get into Advanced Practice. Thankfully, I really want to be 'just' an ICU nurse for now...
So, even though I envy those in DE APN programs, I don't think that they'd be especially unprepared. Someone brought up the PA earlier - which is 2-3 years of Medicine. Lawyers - 2 years of Law. MDs have 4 years of medical school before they start practicing on patients in Teaching Hospitals. Why is it so different for these NPs who have 3 years of school + all the prerequisites?
Jan 8, '10Quote from BCgradnurseUnfortunately it's very common, especially in ADN programs. They have really silly rules, and are hell bent on enforcing them. And some instructors go beyond petty and want to fail at least 1 or 2 of the 10 in their clinical every semester... But it's typically for personal reasons and since clinical is so subjective you can't really stop this.I don't understand why professors/programs would "try" to flunk students. I would think that would be a poor reflection on the school and discourage future students from applying.
Also unfortunate is the school being totally aware of bad instructors because of sooo many serious complaints, but are unwilling to get rid of them because they are unable to fill that position. I do believe I would have been respected more in a Bachelors level or higher program... or at least be treated somewhat humanely.
Jan 24, '10I am posting to offer 2 things: 1. the perspective of a DE MSN dropout (where are they now?) and 2. advice to the ADN who recently posted that they had a long road ahead to advanced practice (I encourage you to search for a RN to NP bridge program. I came across a few in my search for MSN programs that would accept a nurse like me in my state of educational limbo! They made me wish I'd never enrolled in a DE program!) I was enrolled in a very competitive Boston DE MSN program. I absolutely loved it. The faculty was supportive and my fellow students were all extremely motivated (a bunch of nerds like me really!) I dropped out after receiving RN licensure b/c I just wasn't sure what I wanted to do, what type of NP if even a NP at all, and paying all of that money for another degree I wasn't sure about just seemed ludicrous at the time. After coming from a non nursing background, all of the options that became apparent to me once becoming a RN were dizzying. Not to mention the realizations I had about myself after struggling through phase I of this very grueling program, and my first year as a nurse. After becoming a RN I found I really liked the hospital setting and was kind of confused about which direction to go in for advanced practice. I originally chose the DE MSN route into nursing as a career changing non nurse b/c I already had a BS and MS from my "previous life" and as another poster said, I did not want to "work backwards". However, as touched upon in other posts, I am in a bit of a pickle now. I am still considered a "non degree" RN despite a BS and MS in the sciences, which severely limits my career and educational options. Hardly any MSN programs will accept a nurse in my situation (I've found two and one of them is Phoenix Online which seems to have a dubious reputation depending on who you ask so there's no way I'm spending $50 or so grand on a degree through them.) The big teaching hospitals won't hire me b/c I don't have a BSN. So far I've been happy as a RN in the community hospitals I've been working at, but I don't have the energy to be a floor nurse forever, and figuring out my next career move is quite stressful given my limited options. I would encourage anyone who does not have first hand experience in the nursing/hospital environment to think long and hard before entering a DE program that does not offer a BSN for phase I. I've since moved about an hour away from my DE MSN program & am in my mid 30's so commuting back to the big city for class and clinicals for the next 2-4 years sounds thoroughly exhausting and just about incomprehensible. I just don't have the motivation or lifestyle that had back when I first enrolled. I've applied to the only other reputable MSN program that will accept a nurse like me, but it is a CNL program so if I want to become a NP I will have to do another 32 credits after that for a post masters certificate. If I'd done an accelerated BSN or even a ADN instead of DE it would have made a world of difference (cost, financial aid, marketability, graduate study options). I wish I'd had someone experienced to offer me such an opinion while I was making my decision about the best way into nursing for me. If any other DE MSN dropouts are reading I would LOVE LOVE LOVE you to post what you've been doing (or planning) for work and education since leaving!
Jan 24, '10Quote from rockinRN1975Does this school require you to go through the CNL program before going the NP route? I would think if you could be accepted into the CNL program (which is an MSN, right?) that you could just as easily be accepted into the NP track. I may be equivocating CNL with CNS since I don't know much about CNL programs, so maybe I'm missing something. An old coworker of mine completed her CNL program during her first year as a nurse--it may have been the program you are talking about since I think it's in the same region. Could you get a BSN from this program? Thus opening up more MSN program and job opportunities...I've applied to the only other reputable MSN program that will accept a nurse like me, but it is a CNL program so if I want to become a NP I will have to do another 32 credits after that for a post masters certificate.
Quote from rockinRN1975I hear your frustration. I would have thought that a DE dropout with an RN license would be considered equally for positions that require a BSN since any DE student has at least the equivalent amount of training and education. It is foolish to be guided blindly by alphabet soup when making hiring or admissions decisions.If I'd done an accelerated BSN or even a ADN instead of DE it would have made a world of difference (cost, financial aid, marketability, graduate study options). I wish I'd had someone experienced to offer me such an opinion while I was making my decision about the best way into nursing for me. If any other DE MSN dropouts are reading I would LOVE LOVE LOVE you to post what you've been doing (or planning) for work and education since leaving!
Jan 24, '10Please bring me up to speed... what is a DE program? What is a CNL program? Just as a point of information, where I live I HIDE the fact that I am a BSN level nurse because the majority of nurses with whom I work, and in fact those that supervise me, do not have that degree yet! With some people, using a RN, BSN title may be interpreted as snobbish. Believe it or not.
Jan 24, '10DE= direct entry or master's entry, a bridge program for students with a non nursing BS to enter into a nursing MS program. Usually an accelerated RN component (phase 1) and then entry into a regular MSN program (phase 2).
Jan 25, '10Considering the time and money for masters, is this program transferable to another state? It takes aout 18 - 24 mos to finish , but if one moves to another state, one should not lose thsoe credits and be transferable ?
Jan 26, '10I'm not sure if you are asking about educational credits earned in a master's entry program or the end degree and license? As far as a final degree and license goes - if the program is accredited and you complete the MSN program and successfully pass the boards then you take your credentials wherever you go. But keep in mind that different state BON have different rules regarding advanced practice roles so you might find the role drastically different from one state to another. If you're asking about individual classes and credits earned while working toward a degree and transferring those to another program in another state - that is basically up to the institutuion you are asking to accept the credits. Different schools have different policies. Most limit the number of transferrable credits and most require a good number of credits earned on their campus before they will award a degree. Also, as you probably read in previous postings, the state BONs have their own requirements regarding the credentials required as prerequisites to enter a MSN program. For instance, the ME BON does not allow a non nursing BS for entry to a MSN program, while the MA BON does (though not all MA schools offer programs accomodating a non nursing BS student)...hopefully I answered some questions instead of creating more - the world of nursing credentials is awfully convoluted, isn't it?
Mar 1, '10there are many good programs like this. also accelerated arnp programs are coming to be a big hit since the recent adoption of phd
Mar 2, '10Thank you for the answer, and yes it is convoluted. It is also nice if Universities get together and have some reciprocities on the courses, so one does not lost credits if they move to another state. It is the samd thing w/ the nurses license...this especially should have a reciprocity, some sort of standardized accepted discipline and studies and nurses licenses should be acceptable to other states !!!!
Apr 10, '11melmarie23 - if you don't me asking, which school did you attend? and how much longer is the NP route post Entry-MSN?
Apr 10, '11melmarie23 - which DE MSN program did you complete your schooling with? And how much longer is it post DE MSN?
Quote from melmarie23I am a DE MSN student. I just finished my first year and have one more to go.
Ours is year round (summer semesters included) for two years. We receive "provisional" status into the graduate school once accepted. Our status will change once we pass NCLEX, which we sit for after a year and half. So for me, I will be sitting for the boards this upcoming June.
The program is front loaded with the basics: fundamentals, patho, pharm, psych, OB, Pedi, Med/Surg, community health....as well as some of our master's courses. In my first year, I've completed 585 clinical hours. This spring, we have our immersion, in the specialty we're planning on going in upon the programs completion, which is 400 clinical hours. The last summer and fall semesters is mostly dedicated to our research, which will be in the same hospital/unit as our immersion.
After passing the NCLEX we're expected to start working. Its not mandatory, but its strongly encouraged. Additionally, many past cohorts have been hired from their immersion placements, contingent on passing the boards. So needless to say, this upcoming spring is huge for me.
My school's DE MSN is for the CNL role. We were told at the beginning that we mostly likely WONT be hired into this role, but rather we'd matriculate into it after a year or two experience under our belt. To help us gain that experience, we sit for the boards 6 months before graduating and are then encouraged to work as we wrap up the program.
I will likely sit for the CNL exam when I graduate next December. I can also continue on, and become an NP as my school also has a certificate program. However, I plan on working for at least a few years before I continue my education.
Why did I chose my particular school and program? Initially it was to both go to graduate school, and to become a nurse. I already had a Bachelors, so I didn't want to work backwards so to speak. What I liked about the CNL role is that is bridges what I did in my past life (my Bachelors is in Biology and I worked in research for three and a half years before starting the DE program), but still allows us to work at the bedside. Yes, the CNL is still a bedside nurse. I still want to work with patients, but also solve problems, improve patient outcomes and advance the profession as well. Additionally, at my school, I have the option to continue on and become a practitioner, which is a long term goal of mine.
I know this thread is a old, but I still wanted to share my story.