Only if you are not in it for the money - page 4
CE, Your post was truly heartfelt. How unselfish you must be...Tell me though, you say that when you went into nursing school it was not for the monetary benefits, is it still that way now? Or do... Read More
Oct 24, '00Mona,
Gee... What changed your, um...perspective? Why? Was it something I said or was it a combination of what others have said as well? What do you mean by "enlightened"?
The other day you were apparently disagreeing with me and now ????- How come?
I'd really like to know.
Also, you say that when you first began reading my posts that you were shocked. Why were you shocked? What did I say that was so shocking?
Part of the reason why I want to know these things is because I have always had these feelings about nursing since I entered nursing. Granted, I didn't just come out and tell my bosses that I wasn't making enough money-that is until I found a better paying job... But I have always felt, um...frustrated that many of the other nurses I worked with held the same views as CE and would not even entertain the thought of looking at my perspectives.
The other thing is that it's not just about the money...It's about respect. Why is it that many of the patients we take care of have much better insurance than we do? Why is it that in the role as RN I am considered "replaceable". Why is my profession talked about as being "valued" yet in real life I as a nurse am not valued- more like "replaceable"?
Someone who posted previously made a good analogy, ie: a baseball team- Pitcher/Doctor, Nurse/Catcher, 1st baseman/Resp Therapist etc. - why should one member of the team be less valued than another?
So why Mona, did you change your mind?
Oct 25, '00nursedude, CE is doing something, she is participating in the million nurse march organizing. You have attacked and unfairly. Should nurses be compenstated for what they do? Most certainly, I think everyone agrees on that point. Working conditions are driving nurses out more than lack of monetary compensation, and that is what ce is working to change. We all know that will not happen quickly and that it will take alot of nurses saying the same thing. As a nurse you have experienced what corporate greed has done to the nurses in your area, but that greed does not only hurt you and other nurses it hurts the patients too. If a nurse went into this career only for the money than they made a mistake, I may be wrong but what I think ce is trying to say is just that. Yes, corp. have used the caring that nurses have for their patients to keep them from striking, to make them cross a picket line and to continue working under conditions that other career fields got rid of a long time ago. What do you think the million nurse march is about? It's not just about the money, in fact it has very little to do with the money, except the money the other side is making off the backs of nurses AND the patient. If ce is being meek in asserting there is a problem than why work towards change in a big way with the mnm? All she is trying to say is that there are many rewards in nursing besides money and you have attacked her for that. However you do seem pretty good at doing that with anyone who doesn't hold your point of view. Can you say backbiting? HOw many other nurses have you seen do the same thing. It's like dumping on the new grad,it's done because too many people find it acceptable and look away or participate. And that is crap. I think we are all aware that nurses, particularly in some areas of the country, are very poorly paid, and you have gone through a nasty experience at the hospital that you worked for, but that does not entitle you to ridicule and be nasty to a fellow nurse. Your sarcasm is not helpful in the least in achieving whatever goal it is you have. And you use that sarcasm frequently towards anyone that does not agree with you, and personally I think thats crap. Stating the way you feel is one thing but masking it is hurtful comments designed to get the your point across in simply unnecessary. You want to state an opinion than fine, but please use a little courtesy when doing so. And by the way a profession is little more according to the dictionary, then someone doing a job that requires appropriate education to do it. That definition could make alot of career fields professions, however professional means the way one conducts themselves, and I think you could at least behave professionally. Snide remarks towards other nurses should not happen. We are all in the same boat, the stress of the job etc... is enough without another nurse feeling that it is ok to attack another. I'm sure you'll cut and paste this and add your nasty comments to this post, your pretty good at it. I don't give a damn, I think it is time for someone to tell you that you can be very rude, your remarks are uncalled for and I for one would appreciate it if you could please state your opinion without the additional sarcasm.
Oct 25, '00Nurse Dude,
I got involved in this site this month to learn more about nursing issues. When I first began reading your posts, I was very shocked that a nurse would reply the way you had. I will admit though, I have been enlightened. I have always known we are worth more than what we are paid; but since , there has always been so much talk about the emotional rewards of nursing-and I have experienced them. I just thought that is the way it has to be. But it is time to be paid what we are worth. The more that nurses just accept this lack of compensation and even back it up with thier emotional satisfaction, the less chance we have of changing our situation. Maybe if there were more people backing you up, you would not have to go to the extremes that you have to make your point. Maybe instead of scaring off new nursing students by telling them the pay is not worth it (making the shortage even worse), we should advertise to the local college and university about getting involved to make changes. When I finish this post, I plan to go to MNM pages and get as much info to pass out at the full time and part time I work(to pay the bills), and also to the local nursing programs. Good Luck in making changes.
Oct 25, '00THANK YOU MCOUNTRY FOR YOUR REPLY!!!!!!!!!!!
You managed to say what I have wanted to say but was not quite sure how to put.
Oct 25, '00rncountry, nursedude has been informed by many of us, including me, that his approach or point of view is not helpful to the conversation in that it antagonizes others, and he has indicated that he will stick with his point of view. Whether we like it or not, he does have a right to his opinion and will no doubt continue posting antagonistic comments where he feels he can score points. However, I will acknowledge that in his posts, he has made some points that I agree with. On the issue of nurse professionalism vs. practice, nursedude, I need more clarification from you on the definition. It's not clear to me that one does not affect the other. Your nursing practice does include the ability to demonstrate professionalism. Like everything else, you can classify professionalism and assign a level from none on up to indicate the approach a nurse takes to his/her practice. Professionalism, in my opinion, is essentially an all-encompassing term and is not just relegated to educational background, skills, experience, network size, salary, and job title.
ceworden, I'm glad you clarified the fact that you are well aware of the plight of nursing, and it's clear you have done your homework. I apologize if I miswrote your point.
In general, I think the mark of a true professional is being able to agree to disagree acknowledging and accepting the fact that your point of view may not be accepted by everyone (I've had to do this on occasion). I feel that stark antagonism undermines the quest for answers and solutions although it does add to the conversation. I think if you discover or feel that a person likes being adversarial and really does not have the best of intentions, then pray for them.
[This message has been edited by Mijourney (edited October 25, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Mijourney (edited October 25, 2000).]
Oct 25, '00CE, rncountry and mijourney....
Please, please forgive me for attacking and antogonizing CE's perspective. And for that matter, since rncountry and mijourney feel so drawn to come to CE's aid, perhaps somehow you gals feel as though by my attacking/antagonizing CE's perspectives that I had done the same to you two as well.
I just think it is a little perplexing that for whatever reason you all have taken the discussion on this board so personally. As if I were antagonizing you or who you are personally...I feel that because you all seem to be so personally upset that I challenge, disagree with and antagonize CE's perspective that maybe you all have an identity problem or something...
Maybe one of the other nurses in this thread was right when they described some nurses as being codependant, martyrs and unhealthy...
Why is it that you guys take this so personally???
Oct 25, '00Nurses that behave this way towards one another can make the workplace hell, regardless of any other issues nurses are dealing with.
Gee, I didn't think we were in the workplace??? Um, it's called the internet aka cyberspace...
So say what you think, but as long as the nastiness and sarcasm are dripping from your posts, guess I'll just pass them by, it is not worth my time.
I am so sorry you feel so olbligated to read my posts. Also, I am sorry that I evoke so much influence over you that you for some reason have to reply to my posts...Even if you don't like them?
Oct 26, '00Don't take it personally. I just think you enjoy attempting to intimidate others, and when I see nurses doing that to each other it really pisses me off. It is high school behavior that does not belong in our profession. You always catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. I see no reason that you should be so sarcastic to people who are attempting to share concerns and/or opinions. But you are, it has been pointed out by others, you continue anyway, and I for one find it unacceptable. Nurses that behave this way towards one another can make the workplace hell, regardless of any other issues nurses are dealing with. I believe that when one finds it to be unacceptable then you should stand up and say so. So I am. Share your opinion, but lose the sarcasm. It is unnessary and immature. I am being direct. I feel you attempt to bully and I don't like bullies. Regardless if it is directed to me or anyone else. Too many good nurses have left their jobs because of behavior just like you exhibit, and that is something that should concern all nurses. We have issues like mandatory overtime, poor staffing, etc... yet nurses leave work places not just because of those issues, but because they are ripped into and treated so badly by fellow nurses. I've seen it too many times and think it is wrong. I feel strongly about this and willing to say so without trying to mince words. It is totally uncalled for and only when other nurses are willing to tell the bully to lay off will that part of nursing change. You have valid points, but they get lost by being wrapped in sarcasm, therefore you are not effective except to get a rise out of people. A waste of time because what gets focused on is not the need for change, but your words. I will stand up for what I think is right, and if that means defending someone else than I will do it. So say what you think, but as long as the nastiness and sarcasm are dripping from your posts, guess I'll just pass them by, it is not worth my time. I want to read things that enhance the discussion, not detract from them.
Oct 26, '00Now nursedude, didn't we have a discussion under another topic about taking things personally? Didn't I tell you that I would not clench my teeth over your posts? Since I don't know you in reality, I can't take you personally especially when you may be approaching this bb from the standpoint of a competition or game (par for the course for nurses). If it's any consolation, I think the fact that you responded to our posts in the manner you did indicated that perhaps you've taken us personally for "defending" ce? Maybe we offended you? In fact, I am flattered that you took the time to respond to my post. Like you, I know that my point of view may draw detractors and challengers such as yourself, but as you point out, this is cyberspace, and posters will let their hair down and even remove clothes. However, it's been my experience that whatever approach a poster takes in cyberspace, there tends to be a spillover in reality. Perhaps what we're dealing with is more than an identity crisis. Nevertheless, continue "out of the box." It gives us food for thought.