Time to call a duck a duck? - page 55

by eriksoln

79,694 Views | 547 Comments

I remember having this debate with other students while I was in school. I have seen nothing during my time practicing nursing to change my mind about the issue. Now, with the recession bringing out the true colors of nurses... Read More


  1. 0
    Quote from Asystole RN
    There are many nursing articles alone that talk about what a profession is and how nursing fits into it. I would start your search in CINAHL
    Quote from tokebi
    But the great thing about wikipedia is that they list references. What I used to do is get the general info on wiki, go to the source, get more detailed info and cite it, or follow more references cited in that source, which gives me ample list of references.
    Ah, OK. My problem is, I like the list that is presented in the original post, but can't find it anywhere. I've got a lot of other lists of criteria, but none that are anything like this one.
  2. 0
    Quote from PennyWise
    Ah, OK. My problem is, I like the list that is presented in the original post, but can't find it anywhere. I've got a lot of other lists of criteria, but none that are anything like this one.


    Wiki strikes again. Welcome to academic research and writing.
  3. 0
    'Professional' nurses are unable to practice their 'profession' without being overseen and directed by a different and entirely seperate 'profession' (doctors). Any talk of nursing autonomy/independence is simply an illusion. Any nurse deluded by such illusions runs the risk of practicing medicine (a profession) and losing her 'professional' license. Perhaps at the most basic level a nurse could independently care for a patient's hygeine and safety...but so can CNA's...etc...who are in no way considered professional by the 'truly' professional nurses. (However, CNAs COULD be considered professionals if CNAs went to school for four years and developed CNA theories...oh wait...those theories already exist...in the form of nursing theories...sheesh..)...

    At any rate, this dependence on another profession is unique among 'professions'...and a glaring example of the true nature of our 'profession'.

    *we practice with and through doctors orders. Without them, we are mere hygeine/safety technicians...with a degree*

    Lastly...maybe if they werent called doctors 'orders'...perhaps doctors 'requests'...or doctors 'suggestions' they'd be easier to swallow. The word 'order' just speaks to the paternal origins of the doctor/nurse relationship and is a pet peev of mine. And also...my use of 'profession/professional a million times in my post was a wee bit of self-serving humor. Sorry.
  4. 0
    Quote from Parsifal
    'Professional' nurses are unable to practice their 'profession' without being overseen and directed by a different and entirely seperate 'profession' (doctors). Any talk of nursing autonomy/independence is simply an illusion. Any nurse deluded by such illusions runs the risk of practicing medicine (a profession) and losing her 'professional' license. Perhaps at the most basic level a nurse could independently care for a patient's hygeine and safety...but so can CNA's...etc...who are in no way considered professional by the 'truly' professional nurses. (However, CNAs COULD be considered professionals if CNAs went to school for four years and developed CNA theories...oh wait...those theories already exist...in the form of nursing theories...sheesh..)...

    At any rate, this dependence on another profession is unique among 'professions'...and a glaring example of the true nature of our 'profession'.

    *we practice with and through doctors orders. Without them, we are mere hygeine/safety technicians...with a degree*

    Lastly...maybe if they werent called doctors 'orders'...perhaps doctors 'requests'...or doctors 'suggestions' they'd be easier to swallow. The word 'order' just speaks to the paternal origins of the doctor/nurse relationship and is a pet peev of mine. And also...my use of 'profession/professional a million times in my post was a wee bit of self-serving humor. Sorry.
    #1 Nurse Practitioner
    #2 Nursing practice is a distinct practice from medicine despite many of the nursing tasks overlapping into medicine and based upon the orders of a doctor. I believe you are speaking to the condition of autonomy being a characteristic of a profession. Autonomous nursing decisions are a key part of nursing and a fundamental requirement for all nurses. A defining feature of the autonomy of nursing versus being the physician's assistant (not to be confused with PA) is our fundamental role within healthcare as the patient's advocate. Above all we protect and advocate for the patient, even if that places us at odds with the physician.

    Those in acute care are often at the mercy of the physicians, due to the nature of the patients. Those who work outside of acute care can testify to having a great deal of autonomy.
  5. 0
    Quote from Asystole RN
    #1 Nurse Practitioner
    #2 Nursing practice is a distinct practice from medicine despite many of the nursing tasks overlapping into medicine and based upon the orders of a doctor. I believe you are speaking to the condition of autonomy being a characteristic of a profession. Autonomous nursing decisions are a key part of nursing and a fundamental requirement for all nurses. A defining feature of the autonomy of nursing versus being the physician's assistant (not to be confused with PA) is our fundamental role within healthcare as the patient's advocate. Above all we protect and advocate for the patient, even if that places us at odds with the physician.

    Those in acute care are often at the mercy of the physicians, due to the nature of the patients. Those who work outside of acute care can testify to having a great deal of autonomy.
    #1 Nurse practioners are unable to prescribe or diagnose without the collaboration/cooperation/ of a physician (they work 'under' and are dependent on doctors to 'grant' them this 'mid-level' autonomy. (again...nursing 'profession' dependent on a different profession... )

    #2 the only truly autonomous decisions a nurse can make regarding the care of the patient are concerning hygeine and safety. Are you suggesting that we're professional 'advocates'? Without a doctor giving/agreeing to 'orders', you can advocate all day...but would be unable to care for a cure someone...outside of hygeine and safety. ...just like a CNA. You dont need a degree to be an advocate.

    And those nurses that work outside of acute care...still need doctors orders. I would like to hear someone 'testify' as to how they dont. (outside of the said hygeine qand safety stuff)...

    Asystole... c'mon just give in. Once you face this realization you can begin to heal. The truth sometimes hurts..
  6. 0
    Quote from Parsifal
    #1 Nurse practioners are unable to prescribe or diagnose without the collaboration/cooperation/ of a physician (they work 'under' and are dependent on doctors to 'grant' them this 'mid-level' autonomy. (again...nursing 'profession' dependent on a different profession... )

    #2 the only truly autonomous decisions a nurse can make regarding the care of the patient are concerning hygeine and safety. Are you suggesting that we're professional 'advocates'? Without a doctor giving/agreeing to 'orders', you can advocate all day...but would be unable to care for a cure someone...outside of hygeine and safety. ...just like a CNA. You dont need a degree to be an advocate.

    And those nurses that work outside of acute care...still need doctors orders. I would like to hear someone 'testify' as to how they dont. (outside of the said hygeine qand safety stuff)...

    Asystole... c'mon just give in. Once you face this realization you can begin to heal. The truth sometimes hurts..
    It must be different in your state from mine. Nurse practitioners here can, and do, work independently and even have their own practices. My primary care is a nurse practitioner, independent from any physician. Nurse midwives here in Arizona are fairly common and practice independently for example.

    In a philosophical sense no one is truly autonomous, especially considering that everything in healthcare is regulated by state and federal law and thus under the control of another entirely separate profession, politicians.

    As a vascular access nurse I am consulted by physicians to assess and place intravenous access. Granted I am consulted by the physician but the type and location of the intravenous catheter are determined by me. We may be consulted to come in to perform a task but many times how we go about those tasks is decided upon autonomous decisions. Is an electrician not autonomous because he was consulted to place an outlet by the general contractor?

    Community health nursing is an entire branch of nursing that is mostly separated from medicine, so is informatics, education, and so on.

    I do have to admit though, I do not see nursing as a true profession but rather as a developing profession. Most of my reservations regard the educational standards of the profession though.
  7. 1
    Quote from Asystole RN

    I do have to admit though, I do not see nursing as a true profession.
    ...and the truth shall set you free!
    Szasz_is_Right likes this.
  8. 1
    Quote from Parsifal
    ...and the truth shall set you free!
    Nope, it is not a true profession but rather a developing profession. This is largely due to the uncontrolled standards of education into the entry of the profession, not autonomy or any other issue.
    Altra likes this.


Top