Single-payer advocates disrupt Senate Finance Committee.

[GCTMT]

"So, let me get this straight you have fifteen seats at the table but not one for single-payer?" Priceless.

[YOUTUBE]

[/YOUTUBE]

[herring_RN, ASN, BSN]

Cutting costs and providing health insurance to all Americans will not be possible without either:

- Rationing care

- Raising taxes OR

- Taking the profit from the insurance companies

Doctors and Nurses Kicked Out of Health Care Hearing

...Although the Finance Committee has held three public hearings with more than three dozen witnesses, no witness has advocated a single-payer system. Instead, witnesses represented a collection of health care providers, insurance companies, business interests, labor groups, think tanks and academics....

... President Obama made clear yesterday that he is not advocating single-payer health care reform.

With CEOs of major health care companies standing behind him, the president listed his three reform criteria as cutting costs, ensuring that Americans can keep their current doctor or health care plan, and providing health insurance to all Americans....

http://www.politicsdaily.com/2009/05/12/doctors-and-nurses-kicked-out-of-health-care-hearing/

[Honnête et Sérieux]

Well, they were in fact denied a seat at the table, it didn't just "look" that way. They asked to be seated, (PHNP) through proper channels at first, and were denied. And they could have provided useful information, even though it's obvious that this Congress and our president seem unwillingly to pass a single-payer plan, many Americans feel it is the right plan and their voices shouldn't have been excluded.

That's the way the process works; they have to submit material to committee members, and at least one of the members has to invite them. Obviously no one thought they brought relevant material.

I watched all three roundtable discussion on the internet, the first was focused on delivery system REFORM (direct quote from Max Baucus) followed by the second on May 5th exanding health coverage to all Americans, and then "finance and health reform" on May 14th.

I understand what you are saying, and that is a good observation, but to use the word reform in describing the delivery system is about the delivery system. Single-payer is about who handles the money, not who delivers the care. It was clearly about improving the existing mechanisms, not making it something completely different. Baucus makes this clear in his opening statements, so it's disingenuous to pretend the series was about turning it into something else. The second hearing was about expanding it, using existing mechanisms. The third hearing was about finding the money for it.

The single-payer method does not solve these problems.

A transfer to a single-payer system would have be done carefully. Legislation already exists to make it happen with as much care as possible. It's very possible that this could be one step toward a more equitable system.

As to breaking the rules, I believe another poster already adressed that issue. History is full of rule-breakers (some good, some bad) who have had to step out of the normal way of things to foster change.

A transfer to a single payer system should not be done; I think there is a reason why both sides of the aisle oppose the idea.

As far as I can see, resorting to civil disobedience in a public hearing to be heard simply indicates a lack of ingenuity or a weak position.

[herring_RN, ASN, BSN]

a partial list of supporters of hr 676 (conyers)

united states national health insurance act

- physicians for a national health program, 14,000 members

- american medical student association (amsa) 68,000 members

- 94 members of the house of representatives - http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d110:hr00676:@@@p

- dollars and sense magazine - http://www.dollarsandsense.org/blog/2009/05/all-out-effort-to-put-single-payer-on.html

- healthcare now! - http://www.healthcare-now.org/2009/05/real-news-network-single-payer-advocates-protest-senate-hearing-video/

state afl-cios

• connecticut afl-cio
  
• delaware afl-cio
  
• florida afl-cio
  
• kentucky afl-cio
  
• ohio afl-cio
  
• minnesota afl-cio
  
• missouri afl-cio
  
• north carolina afl-cio
  
• north dakota afl-cio
  
• pennsylvania afl-cio
  
• south carolina afl-cio
  
• south dakota afl-cio
  
• washington afl-cio
  
• west virginia afl-cio
  
• wisconsin afl-cio
  
• wyoming afl-cio
  
• vermont afl-cio
  

international, national, and state unions and labor organizations

• california nurses association/national nurses organizing committee
  
• coalition of black trade unionists
  
• coalition of labor union women
  
• international longshore & warehouse union
  
• maine's building and construction trades council
  
• massachusetts nurses association
  
• nurses professional organization, kentucky
  
• national association of letter carriers international union
  
• national education association
  
• new york professional nurses union
  
• new york state nurses association
  
• pennsylvania association of staff nurses and allied professionals
  
• united association of journeymen & apprentices of the plumbing & pipe fitting industry of the united states & canada
  
• united auto workers international union
  
• united electrical, radio and machine workers
  

regional and local unions and labor organizations

• albany central federation of labor, albany, ny
  
• allegheny county labor council, pittsburgh, pa
  
• amalgamated lithographers of america, graphic communications
  conference/ibt local 1l, new jersey
  
• amalgamated transit union local 1589, long beach, ca
  
• amalgamated transit union local 825, river edge, nj
  
• american federation of government employees local 2779, gainesville, fl
  
• american federation of government employees local 2028, pittsburgh, pa
  
• american federation of musicians local 1000, new york, ny
  
• american federation of state, county and municipal employees council 62, indiana and kentucky
  
• american federation of state, county and municipal employees retiree chapter 36, los angeles, ca
  
• american federation of state, county & municipal employees district council 37, new york, ny
  
• american federation of state, county & municipal employees, district council 37 retirees, new york, ny
  
• american federation of state, county and municipal employees local 1549, new york, ny
  
• american federation of state, county and municipal employees chapter 1184, retirees, sub-chapter 109, northwest ohio
  
• american federation of state, county and municipal employees, local 2629, louisville, ky
  
• american federation of state, county and municipal employees council 5, st. paul, mn
  
• american federation of state, county and municipal employees, retired public employees' council of washington, washington chapter 10
  
• american federation of teachers local 2334, professional staff congress-cuny, new york, ny
  
• american guild of musical artists, chicago/midwest region
  
• american postal workers union, michigan state
  
• ashtabula labor council, ashtabula, oh
  
• ashtabula afl-cio retiree council, ashtabula, oh
  
• austin central labor council, austin, texas
  
• beaver-lawrence central labor council, beaver, pa
  
• bergen county central trades & labor council, paramus, nj
  
• bergen county central trades and labor council, retirees council, paramus, nj
  
• boulder area labor council, boulder, co
  
• brotherhood of locomotive engineers & trainmen, ohio state legislative board, rail conference, ibt, columbus, oh
  
• brotherhood of locomotive engineers and trainmen division 4, rail conference, ibt, toledo, oh
  
• building and construction trades council of st. louis, st. louis, mo
  
• burlington county central labor union, riverside, nj
  
• butler county united labor council, butler, pa
  
• california state pipe trades council, united association, sacramento, ca
  
• champlain valley labor council, burlington, vt
  
• cirsu, new york, ny
  
• coalition of labor union women philadelphia chapter, philadelphia, pa
  
• coalition of labor union women pittsburgh chapter, pittsburgh, pa
  
• central maine labor council, waterville, me
  
• central new mexico labor council, albuquerque, nm
  
• central new york labor council, utica, ny
  
• central trades & labor council, cape girardeau, mo
  
• cincinnati labor council
  
• cleveland federation of labor, cleveland, oh
  
• cleveland retiree council, afl-cio, cleveland, oh
  
• cleveland painters district council 6 retiree council, cleveland, oh
  
• communications workers of america local 3310, louisville, ky
  
• communications workers of america local 6355, missouri state workers union
  
• communications workers of america local 1180, new york, ny
  
• community action program, southern indiana, united automobile workers
  
• community action program, 3rd & 4th areas, kentucky, united automobile workers
  
• dayton, springfield, sidney, miami valley regional labor council, dayton, oh
  
• detroit a. phillip randolph institute, detroit, mi
  
• district council #4 of the international union of painters & allied trades
  
• duluth, mn central labor body
  
• electrical workers minority caucus, ibew
  
• essex-west hudson labor council, newark, nj
  
• florida state alliance for retired americans
  
• graphic communications conference/ibt local 619,, louisville, ky
  
• greater bangor area central labor council, bangor, me
  
• greater glens falls central labor council, glens falls, ny
  
• greater lansing labor council, lansing, mi
  
• greater louisville building & construction trades council, louisville, ky
  
• greater louisville central labor council, louisville, ky
  
• greater madison county federation of labor, granite city, il
  
• greater st. louis labor council, st. louis, mo
  
• greater westmoreland county labor council, greensburg, pa
  
• harrisburg region central labor council, harrisburg, pa
  
• hawkeye labor council, cedar rapids, ia
  
• hudson county central labor council, jersey city, nj
  
• hudson valley area labor federation, newburgh, ny
  
• independent state store union, harrisburg, pa
  
• international alliance of theatrical and stage employees local 524, glens falls-saratoga, ny
  
• international alliance of theatrical stage employees, moving picture technicians, theatrical protective union local one, artists and allied crafts, new york city, westchester and putnam counties
  
• international association of machinists local lodge 794, albuquerque, nm
  
• international association of machinists local lodge 141 detroit, mi
  
• international association of machinists district lodge 112, jacksonville, fl
  
• international association of machinists lodge 721, jacksonville, fl
  
• international association of machinists pittsburgh airman lodge 1044, pittsburgh, pa
  
• international association of machinists district 160, washington state machinist council, seattle, wa
  
• international association of machinists lodge 1145, selkirk and dewitt, ny
  
• international union of painters and allied trades district council 1, denver, co
  
• international brotherhood of electrical workers local 2327, augusta, me
  
• international brotherhood of electrical workers local 2222, boston, ma
  
• international brotherhood of electrical workers local 2323, cranston, ri
  
• international brotherhood of electrical workers local 2326, essex junction, vt
  
• international brotherhood of electrical workers local 2313, hanover, ma
  
• international brotherhood of electrical workers local 2320, manchester, nh
  
• international brotherhood of electrical workers local 2322, middleboro, ma
  
• international brotherhood of electrical workers local 2321, north andover, ma
  
• international brotherhood of electrical workers local 2325, northborough, ma
  
• international brotherhood of electrical workers local 2324, springfield, ma
  
• international federation of professional and technical engineers local 17, seattle, wa
  
• international union of operating engineers local 547, detroit, mi
  
• jackson/hillsdale counties central labor council, jackson, mi
  
• jefferson county teachers' association, nea, louisville, ky
  
• kentucky jobs with justice, louisville, ky
  
• laborers' international union of north america local 327, august, me
  
• laborers' international union of north america, local 576, louisville, ky
  
• laborers' international union retirees council, local 576, louisville, ky
  
• lorain county federation of labor, lorain, oh
  
• massachusetts state cap council, uaw
  
• mercer county central labor council, mercer county, nj
  
• metropolitan detroit central labor council
  
• michigan state afl-cio women's council
  
• middlesex county labor council, north brunswick, nj
  
• minnesota association of professional employees, st paul, mn
  
• monroe/lenawee county afl-cio council, monroe, mi
  
• national association of broadcast employees and technicians local 21, cwa, albany, ny
  
• national association of letter carriers branch 104, lawrence, ks
  
• national association of letter carriers, branch 84, pittsburgh, pa
  
• national association of letter carriers branch 82, portland, or
  
• national association of letter carriers branch 3126, royal oak, mi
  
• north bay labor council, santa rosa, ca
  
• north central florida central labor council, gainesville, fl
  
• north florida central labor council, jacksonville, fl
  
• northeastern oklahoma central labor council, tulsa, ok
  
• northern kentucky central labor council, covington, ky
  
• northwest indiana federation of labor, hammond, in
  
• north west washington central labor council, bellingham, wa
  
• ohio alliance for retired americans
  
• organization of staff analysts, new york, ny
  
• paper, allied-industrial, chemical, energy international union, local 5-2002, louisville, ky
  
• passaic central labor council, clifton, nj
  
• pima area labor federation, tucson, az
  
• plumbers local 295, united association of journeymen and apprentices of the plumbing and pipe fitting industry, daytona beach, fl
  
• plumbers local 17, united association of journeymen and apprentices of the plumbing and pipe fitting industry, memphis, tn
  
• plumbers and pipefitters, united association local 9, englishtown, nj
  
• plumbers and pipefitters, united association local 409, san luis obispo, ca
  
• plumbers and pipefitters, united association local 630, west palm beach, fl
  
• plumbers, pipefitters and service technicians local 502, united association of journeymen and
  apprentices of the plumbing and pipe fitting industry, louisville, ky
  
• plumbers & steamfitters, united association local union 136, evansville, in
  
• plumbers and steamfitters, united association local 50, northwood, oh
  
• plumbers, steamfitters, and refrigeration fitters, local 393, san jose, ca
  
• plumbers and steamfitters, united association local 188, savannah, ga
  
• public employees federation/encon, albany steward council, professional, scientific and technical employees at the new york state dept. of environmental conservation, albany, ny.
  
• retirees club of local 848 of the united auto workers
  
• rochester and genesee valley area labor federation, rochester, ny and wayne, ontario
  
• rochester and vicinity labor council, rochester, ny
  
• san bernardino/riverside counties central labor council, riverside, ca
  
• san francisco central labor council, san francisco, ca
  
• san francisco web pressmen & prepress workers union local 4n, ibt/graphic communications conference
  
• santa clara & san benito counties building & construction trades council, san jose, ca
  
• savannah regional central labor council
  
• service employees international union, local 73, chicago, il
  
• service employees international union district 1199p, harrisburg, pa
  
• service employees international union local 668, harrisburg, pa
  
• service employees international union local 3, pittsburgh, pa
  
• service employees international union united healthcare workers east, dc, md, ma, and ny
  
• sheet metal workers, local 36, st. louis, mo
  
• smith county central labor council
  
• solidarity committee of the capital district, albany, ny
  
• south bay labor council, san jose, ca
  
• south central federation of labor, madison, wi
  
• southeast missouri building and construction trades council, cape girardeau, mo
  
• southern maine labor council, portland, me
  
• southwestern illinois building & construction trades council, collinsville, il
  
• steelworkers organization of active retirees chapter 20-20, aliquippa, pa
  
• steelworkers organization of active retirees chapter 9-36 f 5, cape coral, fl
  
• steelworkers organization of active retirees chapter 31-9, chicago, il
  
• steelworkers organization of active retirees chapter 36-1, gadsden, al
  
• steelworkers organization of active retirees chapter 36-2, gardendale, al
  
• steelworkers organization of active retirees chapter 9-ur 1, harvest, al
  
• steelworkers organization of active retirees chapter 9-ur 7, hickman, ky
  
• steelworkers organization of active retirees chapter local 200 retirees, iuka, ms
  
• steelworkers organization of active retirees chapter 9-abg 1, kingsport, tn
  
• steelworkers organization of active retirees, ohio state conference
  
• steelworkers organization of active retirees chapter 30-18, plymouth, indiana
  
• steelworkers organization of active retirees chapter 11-3, st. louis, mo
  
• st. joe valley project jobs with justice, south bend, in
  
• texas alliance for retired americans
  
• texas state employees union local 6186, communications workers of america,
  austin, tx
  
• third district of the missouri nurses association
  
• toledo area afl-cio council, toledo, oh
  
• toledo area jobs with justice, toledo, oh
  
• transport workers union local 264, new york, ny
  
• tri-county council of labor, henderson, ky
  
• troy area labor council, troy, ny
  
• unite here, chicago & midwest regional joint board, chicago, il
  
• united auto workers local 1155, birmingham, al
  
• united auto workers local 2164, bowling green, ky
  
• united auto workers local 2320, chicago, il
  
• united auto workers local 2322, holyoke, ma
  
• united auto workers local 6000, michigan state employees, lansing, mi
  
• united auto workers local 6000, state of michigan employees, region 1a, retiree chapter
  
• united auto workers local union 1183, newark
  
• united auto workers local 544, fisher body, west mifflin, pa
  
• united electrical workers, local 506, erie, pa
  
• united labor council of reading and berks county, reading, pa
  
• united steelworkers, district 7, sub-district 4, northern indiana
  
• united steelworkers local 6787, burns harbor, in
  
• united steelworkers local 675, carson, ca
  
• united steelworkers local 314, detroit, mi
  
• united steelworkers local 389, detroit, mi
  
• united steelworkers local 995, follansbee, wv
  
• united steelworkers local 1693, louisville, ky
  
• united steelworkers local 9491, hamburg, mi
  
• united steelworkers local 829, owosso, mi
  
• united steelworkers local 12775, portage, in
  
• united steelworkers local 2-591, riverview, mi
  
• united steelworkers local 176, rochester, mi
  
• united steelworkers local 5668, ravenswood, wv
  
• united steelworkers local 2659, southgate, mi
  
• united steelworkers local 196, trenton, mi
  
• united steelworkers local 1375, warren, oh
  
• united steelworkers local 8498, winston-salem, nc
  
• united steelworkers region x
  
• unified union partners, union presidents from veterans integrated service network, veterans administration hospitals and clinics, pa, wilmington, de, and clarksburg, wv
  
• united university professions, local 2190 aft, new york state united teachers, albany, ny
  
• washington alliance of technology workers, cwa local 37083, seattle, wa
  
• wabash valley central labor council, terre haute, in
  
• washington-orange-lamoille labor council, montpelier, vt
  
• washington state alliance for retired americans
  
• west central florida federation of labor, tampa, fl
  
• west virginia brooke-hancock central labor council, newell, wv
  
• western connecticut central labor council, waterbury, ct
  
• western kentucky afl-cio area council, paducah, ky
  
• white river central labor council, bloomington, in
  

http://www.guaranteedhealthcare.org/facts

[herring_RN, ASN, BSN]

So are you willing to work for free? Our salaries represent profit to us...a return for the work we do. Why should anyone be expected to give away their expertise? If they want to voluntarily do that, I'm sure there are places where it can be done. And many do that, in addition to doing their paid jobs.

We have a responsibility to advocate for the interests and wishes of our patients. We have a responsibility to provide safe, effective, therapeutic, competent nursing care in a compassionate manner.

The insurance companies take money and try not to approve the services they are in business to provide.

Fair compensation, a living wage , for our valuable work is appropriate.

People are admitted to a hospital for nursing care. That is it. Nothing else. A staff nurse who does not provide that care should not be employed.

The insurance corporations neither produce a product not do useful work. They take money and try to keep as much as possible for their executives and shareholders.

Just one CEO, William McGuire was making $124 million a year in compensation in 2005.

[tntrn, ASN, RN]

Playing devil's advocate here, and I've had to fight with my insurance company too, but if an insurance company is not allowed to make a profit, somebody is not going to get paid for their work. Which you seem to think is okay.

[herring_RN, ASN, BSN]

Playing devil's advocate here, and I've had to fight with my insurance company too, but if an insurance company is not allowed to make a profit, somebody is not going to get paid for their work. Which you seem to think is okay.

With single payer expanded and improved Medicare will be the insurance company. There will be no shareholders or multimillion dollar compensation.

The good smart people who work for the for profits can do something useful for a living.

Maybe go to nursing school?

http://www.guaranteedhealthcare.org/facts

[tntrn, ASN, RN]

With single payer expanded and improved Medicare will be the insurance company. There will be no shareholders or multimillion dollar compensation.

The good smart people who work for the for profits can do something useful for a living.

Maybe go to nursing school?

http://www.guaranteedhealthcare.org/facts

Useful, in your opinion. I am sure they think they are doing useful things now.

That being said, I do have a problem with the CEO's making millions, but also have a problem with the no profit concept. And nothing the government has ever run has run smoothly, or on budget, so why would we be foolish to think this would be any different?

[herring_RN, ASN, BSN]

Useful, in your opinion. I am sure they think they are doing useful things now.

That being said, I do have a problem with the CEO's making millions, but also have a problem with the no profit concept. And nothing the government has ever run has run smoothly, or on budget, so why would we be foolish to think this would be any different?

What useful things are the for profit insurance corporations doing?

Seriously I can't even guess.

The United States needs to come up with the times.

We once had the best public schools, safest food and water supply. Built railroads, delivered mail more reliably and less costly than other countries. Had parks, recreation, and protected our finest natural places with National Parks.

Whe we realize that government is not the problem or, if it is, that WE are the problem government; we CAN make life better for us all.

[tntrn, ASN, RN]

What useful things are the for profit insurance corporations doing?

Seriously I can't even guess.

The United States needs to come up with the times.

We once had the best public schools, safest food and water supply. Built railroads, delivered mail more reliably and less costly than other countries. Had parks, recreation, and protected our finest natural places with National Parks.

Whe we realize that government is not the problem or, if it is, that WE are the problem government; we CAN make life better for us all.

guess one anyswer would be to go the way some want: Pay through the nose with taxes. But only those nasty rich people have to do that. The others just get to enjoy the benefits of their good fortune.

If everybody had to help pay, it would be something to consider, but the way it's going, with 40+% already not paying any income tax at all, I don't see it happening in any kind of workable manner.

And I would have to add that just throwing money at a problem (like public schools, for example) rarely fixes anything.

[RN4MERCY]

Here is a news story relevant to the initial discussion. I am glad to see that it is getting some press.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/30629823#30629823

I hope everyone will forward this and invite their peers, family, and friends to watch it; then, let's keep the discussion going. The personal is political; profit has no place in health care. The insurers are coming between patients who need care and the nurses and doctors who provide it. How long are we going to let this go on? We have an ethical duty, as patient advocates, to change this circumstance, and reclaim our moral legacy to be in control of the delivery of health care.

[Honnête et Sérieux]

What useful things are the for profit insurance corporations doing?

Seriously I can't even guess.

The United States needs to come up with the times.

We once had the best public schools, safest food and water supply. Built railroads, delivered mail more reliably and less costly than other countries. Had parks, recreation, and protected our finest natural places with National Parks.

Whe we realize that government is not the problem or, if it is, that WE are the problem government; we CAN make life better for us all.

First, thanks for the list of single-payer advocates. It might frustrate the people who were arrested to find out that they didn't need to get arrested because the AFL-CIO testified at the hearings.

Second, I'd like to point out that in criticism of for-profit corporations, I saw several other institutions mentioned, and I had to point this out; as we have 'socialized' our schools, they have deteriorated. I don't know what our gov't has done to prove that they won't make the same mess out of our healthcare system. The post office? Another gov't run debacle, same with our state and national parks.

I hope it's clear why I don't want the gov't taking my money and then making decisions about healthcare. They can't sustain medicare or social security, a far more simply scheme. I hardly think that these people who can't figure out their own taxes can figure out how to run a socialized healthcare system.

The gov't is the problem...flat out. They need to get out of the way.

BTW, my health-care insurance provider is NOT-FOR-PROFIT!!!!

[herring_RN, ASN, BSN]

The "Blues" give us the blues wiyth their shell game of for profit subsidiaris.

http://www.putmipeoplefirst.com/pdfs/2008/04/Freep-AF-411608.pdf

They still deny needed care. Google this site to find lawsuits they lost if you don't believe me.

Premiums paid for healthcare goes to overhead including millions for individual executives.

Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Florida's chief executive drew $4.7 million in total compensation last year - http://www.redorbit.com/news/health/305369/blue_cross_ceos_pay_at_the_top_lufranos_compensation_not/

The salary and bonus paid to Cleve L. Killingsworth, chairman and chief executive of Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Massachusetts, increased 26 percent last year, to $3.5 million, even though the health insurer's membership declined and its net income fell 49 percent.

Based on previous years' retirement benefits - which Blue Cross-Blue Shield did not report for 2008 - Killingsworth's total pay package was likely about $4.3 million, making him by far the highest paid healthcare executive in Massachusetts...

http://www.boston.com/business/healthcare/articles/2009/02/28/blue_cross_ceos_pay_rose_26/

William C. Van Faasen, the long-time chairman and chief executive of Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Massachusetts, was paid $16.4 million in retirement benefits in January 2006, even though he didn't leave the company....

http://www.boston.com/business/globe/articles/2007/11/16/blue_cross_gave_chairman_164m_in_retirement_pay/