Robert Wood Johnson Univ Hospital Nurses to Strike

ZASHAGALKA, RN · Sep 9, 2006

The strike is about the right to use other facilities for healthcare? Sheesh. What a silly reason to strike. I wouldn't talk to the union about that, either.

Sure, you can make unreasonable demands and then complain when the other side won't even hear them, due to their unreasonableness, but that does not make you an innocent party.

I've NEVER seen a non-VA hospital, union or otherwise, that didn't try to recoup some of the cost of providing healthcare by tailoring its health plans to be the provider of such care, to the largest extent possible. To expect otherwise is simply unreasonable.

If that is the sticking point, then you are asking for multi-million dollar solutions to dollar-ante concerns. I can think of a ton of other uses to demand hospitals spend millions of dollars that would be worth taking a stand.

If the issue is WHERE to get services and not HOW MUCH service, then I think I'd bargain for more paycheck, not to demand that my employer waste resources by paying full price for services that it can provide on site.

When I had my inguinal hernia repair, I used my hospital and that was a little uncomfortable. But sheesh. I got it done and it cost me less than a grand out of pocket - and that was money paid to the doctors. I wouldn't even of had the NERVE to ask my hospital to pay its competitors full price for such a thing. Nor would I have wanted them to waste such funds when I could think of several better uses for them.

If you believe the TYPE of coverages are unfair, why don't you negotiate THAT instead of the untenable demand for care anywhere? They are not likely to cave on that anytime soon. And, in the meantime, it is YOU risking the future bargaining power of your union by hanging a strike on such an unreasonable demand.

~faith,

Timothy.

clcrtrn · Sep 10, 2006

There is a whole lot more to the issue than what you have simplified it to ZASHAGALKA. If you read all the posts and even check out our union website you'll get the entirety of the situation rather than call our valid reasons silly.

ZASHAGALKA, RN · Sep 10, 2006

There is a whole lot more to the issue than what you have simplified it to ZASHAGALKA. If you read all the posts and even check out our union website you'll get the entirety of the situation rather than call our valid reasons silly.

That one reason isn't valid. And it is probably the most cost prohibitive demand that you are making. Try compromising on THAT in order to get more from the 'entirety of the situation'.

For the type of money involved in that ONE demand, you'd have a better and cheaper chance to negotiate for a five buck an hour pay raise. Or for a real comprehensive health care plan. Or, both.

~faith,

Timothy.

clcrtrn · Sep 10, 2006

Again....read all posts; I've tried to update with the facts of the matter on a regular basis. Check the website. Part of the reason is the hospital's refusal to talk, to bargain in good faith.

great Wilfred Owen quote by the way!

ZASHAGALKA, RN · Sep 10, 2006

Again....read all posts; I've tried to update with the facts of the matter on a regular basis. Check the website. Part of the reason is the hospital's refusal to talk, to bargain in good faith.

That one unreasonable demand is probably why.

Scrap that and you might just get them to the table to talk about reasonable demands.

I don't see that demand as 'bargaining in good faith'. I can see WHY they are so intractable on that point.

~faith,

Timothy.

clcrtrn · Sep 10, 2006

Again, there is more to the issue than the choice of hospital. An increasing number of doctors at RWJ are dropping their acceptance of the current plans due to difficulties in receiving or decreases in reimbursements. Nurses have been denied coverage for proceedures because there are no doctors within the RWJ inner circle to perform them. The union has presented an alternative package that would save the hospital $1.5 million over the life of the contract.

ZASHAGALKA, RN · Sep 10, 2006

Imagine if the UAW were bargaining with Ford or GM that they MUST buy all the employees Toyotas. . .

My guess: management wouldn't even come to the bargaining table.

~faith,

Timothy.

ZASHAGALKA, RN · Sep 10, 2006

Again, there is more to the issue than the choice of hospital. An increasing number of doctors at RWJ are dropping their acceptance of the current plans due to difficulties in receiving or decreases in reimbursements. Nurses have been denied coverage for proceedures because there are no doctors within the RWJ inner circle to perform them. The union has presented an alternative package that would save the hospital $1.5 million over the life of the contract.

You mention valid points. But, MY POINT is that you block moving forward on those points WITH the issue of choice of hospital.

Even my healthplan has it such that if my hospital doesn't perform the procedure, then it isn't 'out of network' to go to the nearest place that does. THAT is not the same as demanding to go elsewhere for everything.

And, I don't buy the argument that management would save money by adopting the union contract. That's obviously an opinion, and one about which management decidedly doesn't agree. I just find it difficult to believe that management could save money, but is just 'sticking it to the nurses' for the thrill of it. Most strikes are ABOUT money, or what those resources buy. This, I'm sure, is no exception.

~faith,

Timothy.

lee1 · Sep 10, 2006

Again, there is more to the issue than the choice of hospital. An increasing number of doctors at RWJ are dropping their acceptance of the current plans due to difficulties in receiving or decreases in reimbursements. Nurses have been denied coverage for proceedures because there are no doctors within the RWJ inner circle to perform them. The union has presented an alternative package that would save the hospital $1.5 million over the life of the contract.

So, you are trying to get better out of network for nonemergency care?

I agree with Zashagalka that will cost them much money. How about just one point??

mekrn · Sep 10, 2006

Zashagalka

Perhaps you are not educated as to the reason of our strike. Our strike is first and foremost a strike for Unfair Labor Practice. Instead of negotiating in good faith from the beginning, our administration chose to roll the dice on unionbusting and lost. We received a series of harassing letters on a almost a daily basis during the negotiations trying to encourage us to resign from the union, even having the audacity to provide a form letter for us to fill out and send back to the union. Additionally, they negotiated directly with the members by mail by promising enhancements that were NEVER presented to the negotiating committee. This was another tactic of their's to try to make us distrust the union. It is also illegal. In fact, we received a letter from the hospital admitting to inappropriate nature of that coorespondence. Oops! Nurses were intimidated by management prior to the strike, illegally threatening job loss, etc. The hospital estimated that they had intimidated 500 nurses enough to cross the picket line. Well, how very wrong they were. 30 nurses out of 1300 crossed. Not even close to what they need to run a huge university hospital with an open heart unit, transplant unit, cancer hospital, perinatal center including hight risk antenatal, NICU, PICU and many other specialties, not to mention a level 1 trauma center. Oh yeah, and lets not forget MAGNET hospital. Not only that, but our nurses are more united than ever. We are tired of the manipulation and games of this administration, and they have severely underestimated us.

As to the insurance. Using our hospital is only part of the problem. The reimbursement is so inadequate from the plan that very few physicans, especially surgeons and specialists, particiate in it. Therefore, your hospitalization is covered but you are stuck with a a physician bill of 10's of thousands NOT COVERED! That doesn't sound like coverage to me! A coworker of mine had surgery at OUR facility by a surgeon not in the plan because there is no other at our facility AT ALL who does that type of surgery. She had an $11,000 physician bill, that she paid completely out of pocket. However, she did not even MEET HER DEDUCTIBLE because the self-insured plan said that the surgery was only worth $2,000. They only applied $760 of the $11,000 she paid to her deductible and when she went for follow ups, SHE STILL HAD TO PAY MORE EVEN AFTER PAYING $11,000!!! And that was for surgery in our hospital! We had another nurse with a $38,000 out of pocket with the same situation, DONE IN OUR FACILITY.

Our union is very strong and we are all working hard to better salary, benefits and standards and most of all RESPECT for nurses EVERYWHERE, so sheesh, please don't refer to our strike as silly.

Thank you.

clcrtrn · Sep 10, 2006

quote:

originally posted by clcrtrn

again, there is more to the issue than the choice of hospital. an increasing number of doctors at rwj are dropping their acceptance of the current plans due to difficulties in receiving or decreases in reimbursements. nurses have been denied coverage for proceedures because there are no doctors within the rwj inner circle to perform them. the union has presented an alternative package that would save the hospital $1.5 million over the life of the contract.

from lee1: so, you are trying to get better out of network for nonemergency care?

i agree with zashagalka that will cost them much money. how about just one point??

as i stated, we presented a plan to save the hospital 1.5 million...more if they included all the rwj network hospitals.

ZASHAGALKA, RN · Sep 10, 2006

Zashagalka
Perhaps you are not educated as to the reason of our strike. Our strike is first and foremost a strike for Unfair Labor Practice. Instead of negotiating in good faith from the beginning, our administration chose to roll the dice on unionbusting and lost. We received a series of harassing letters on a almost a daily basis during the negotiations trying to encourage us to resign from the union, even having the audacity to provide a form letter for us to fill out and send back to the union. Additionally, they negotiated directly with the members by mail by promising enhancements that were NEVER presented to the negotiating committee. This was another tactic of their's to try to make us distrust the union. It is also illegal. In fact, we received a letter from the hospital admitting to inappropriate nature of that coorespondence. Oops! Nurses were intimidated by management prior to the strike, illegally threatening job loss, etc. The hospital estimated that they had intimidated 500 nurses enough to cross the picket line. Well, how very wrong they were. 30 nurses out of 1300 crossed. Not even close to what they need to run a huge university hospital with an open heart unit, transplant unit, cancer hospital, perinatal center including hight risk antenatal, NICU, PICU and many other specialties, not to mention a level 1 trauma center. Oh yeah, and lets not forget MAGNET hospital. Not only that, but our nurses are more united than ever. We are tired of the manipulation and games of this administration, and they have severely underestimated us.
As to the insurance. Using our hospital is only part of the problem. The reimbursement is so inadequate from the plan that very few physicans, especially surgeons and specialists, particiate in it. Therefore, your hospitalization is covered but you are stuck with a a physician bill of 10's of thousands NOT COVERED! That doesn't sound like coverage to me! A coworker of mine had surgery at OUR facility by a surgeon not in the plan because there is no other at our facility AT ALL who does that type of surgery. She had an $11,000 physician bill, that she paid completely out of pocket. However, she did not even MEET HER DEDUCTIBLE because the self-insured plan said that the surgery was only worth $2,000. They only applied $760 of the $11,000 she paid to her deductible and when she went for follow ups, SHE STILL HAD TO PAY MORE EVEN AFTER PAYING $11,000!!! And that was for surgery in our hospital! We had another nurse with a $38,000 out of pocket with the same situation, DONE IN OUR FACILITY.
Our union is very strong and we are all working hard to better salary, benefits and standards and most of all RESPECT for nurses EVERYWHERE, so sheesh, please don't refer to our strike as silly.
Thank you.

I think that one point is silly. I wouldn't be sacrificing MY mortgage and back to school budget for something no reasonable employer is going to give you.

You sound like you have lots of problems with your health plan. BUT, it sounds like this one sticking point is keeping all other remedies off the table, as well.

As far as the 'unfair labor practices', so, you admit that a good part of this strike has only to do with pride. Because, isn't that exactly what complaining about tactics that ultimately didn't work is? Well. So much for blaming management for the same failings.

Oh yeah, I can see not paying my bills on time in order to pay that dastardly hospital back for sending me a letter and calling my phone. . . But, just a point of order: isn't that what the NLRB if for, and not a strike?

It is certainly hyperbolic rhetoric to suggest that you represent all RNs everywhere, but I just don't see how these issues extend beyond your facility. They certainly do not extend to MY health care plan. Thank Goodness! My non-union plan sounds much better.

~faith,

Timothy.