How desperate is your state for Nurses?

JudyPRN · Feb 5, 2004

Used and Abused,I spent 31 years working the floors, and gloved up and wiped as many butts as anyone. I don't think I could ever forget how it feels. I don't belong to the union, because there isn't enough nurses to make a large voting block. The union delights in telling nurses that we can't tell the QMAs and attendants what to do unless it relates to patient care. I stood up and said things and did things that marked me as a big, smart mouth. I ran my units my way and if people complained I was sure to show them the vacant positions postings. My patients were clean, fed, went to clsasses, had no sores etc. cause I helped bathe. My paperwork was done on time and so were progress notes. I'm in Quality Management now, but will always stand up and be counted as a nurse.

Used and abused · Feb 5, 2004

I salute you! Thank your for taking a stand and having the back bone to be strong. Nursing is forever in a flux of change but the basics never do change. THank you.

WyomingRN · Feb 12, 2004

Just remember, that once the FTAA is ratified, they will be able to import all the nurses they want under the guise of the so-called nursing shortage; especially when combined with the H-1B program. Just think of all the nurses that will flood into America from Mexico and South America. Just think about your pay declining, along with your benefits disappearing. And there will be no need for sign on bonuses.

orrnlori, RN · Feb 28, 2004

My state has a "surplus" of 6000+ nurses. Hard to believe since my hospital has been paying (and begging) for nurses to refer other nurses to just work 3 months! I too have to believe that those 6000+ listed in my state have their license but do not practice for whatever reason, therefore creating a shortgage of those willing to work. A private hospital just imported 54 Phillipino nurses to fill their needs. Signing bonuses in the small cities around mine are paying up to 5,000 - 10,000 to get nurses who will contract for 2 years.

While I understand the rationale of wanting a guaranteed job, unions, etc., I have to say that working in a university hospital with a multitude of personnel policies and rules in place, you can't get rid of a poor nurse. I'm talking about the kind that could care less whether they do a thing during the day, have poor attitudes towards other staff and their patients, can't be found to start a surgical case even though they know they've been assigned the room, when they do work they work at a snail's pace, etc. This is by no means the majority, most work very hard, but you can't get rid of those who won't work because of the policies in place. And forget about getting rid of the one's who are verbally abusive to others and unprofessional, they've got a job for life. I guess that's a double-edged sword for those of us in teaching hospitals with state funding attached to acedemia.

I still believe there is a true shortage here. The list of nurses with more than 10-15 years here is huge at my hospital, they get hired, they stay for the most part. When we close the ED to incoming (except trauma red) it's because we don't have the beds, and we don't have the beds because we don't have the nurses to man them. Starting pay for new grads was just raised to 19.50 per hour. I started 6 years ago at 12.71. Pretty good starting wage I think. I guess it's relative.

Who knows who creates the figures. There's politics on both sides. My state nursing association seems to only address patient concerns, never the nurses working conditions.

Agnus · Mar 15, 2004

but they are looking for that 'perfect nurse' in many cases. Lots of good nurses here who can't get a job as a nurse due to a minor black mark on their work record. Very unforgiving area here.

A lot of nurse assume that this is a seller's market when it comes to selling themselves to employers.

They assume the shortage is real. They assume that they call all the shots. The truth is even in states where there is a shortage the employer still has enought options to pick and choose.

The shortage real or not will not last and those who have "slight marks" will be out the door when that happens.

I have seen some so arragant to believe that they can just walk in the door and not present a professional image and expect to be hired on the spot.

I worked at a hospital that closed. I saw some very surprised nurses when they had trouble finding work. While others applied to thier first choice of employers and got hired immediately.

The difference was those who did not find work or had trouble finding work thought they were a special comodity. They thought employers would do anything for them, as they were nursese and were 'special'.

kids · Mar 15, 2004

Great post Agnus.

You put my thoughts into words better than I could.

NurseHardee · Mar 16, 2004

Where did you get such resentment towards your fellow nurses, Agnus? My experience has been that hospitals feel that they are the special commodity and can get away with anything. And they do! That's a different picture than you paint.

Nurse Hardee

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A lot of nurse assume that this is a seller's market when it comes to selling themselves to employers.
They assume the shortage is real. They assume that they call all the shots. The truth is even in states where there is a shortage the employer still has enought options to pick and choose.
The shortage real or not will not last and those who have "slight marks" will be out the door when that happens.
I have seen some so arragant to believe that they can just walk in the door and not present a professional image and expect to be hired on the spot.
I worked at a hospital that closed. I saw some very surprised nurses when they had trouble finding work. While others applied to thier first choice of employers and got hired immediately.
The difference was those who did not find work or had trouble finding work thought they were a special comodity. They thought employers would do anything for them, as they were nursese and were 'special'.

MellowOne · Mar 29, 2004

Just remember, that once the FTAA is ratified, they will be able to import all the nurses they want under the guise of the so-called nursing shortage; especially when combined with the H-1B program. Just think of all the nurses that will flood into America from Mexico and South America. Just think about your pay declining, along with your benefits disappearing. And there will be no need for sign on bonuses.

Won't happen. Foreign nurses coming to the U.S. have to spend up to two years navigating the immigration and labor bureaucracies. Part of that involves having their college transcripts reviewed by the CGFNS (Commission on Graduates of Foreign Nursing Schools.) Additionally, 47 states require the nurse to pass the TOEFL (Test of English as a Foreign Language.) The three that don't are NY, NJ, and California.

Additionally, federal law requires that employers provide evidence that they've attempted to fill positions from withing the U.S. Any foreign nurse hired must, by federal law, be paid no less than 90% of the hospital's going rate for the natives. Of course, once here and established, the foreign nurses can move to the higher paying jobs as the market dictates.

Add to this the fact that hospitals recruiting outside the U.S. accrue significant costs for recruiting trips, actually moving the foreign nurses, providing initial housing for the foriegn nurses, etc etc.

A few years ago I started a company that attempted to recruit nurses from Korea to Kentucky. On my first trip to Korea, I found a grand total of one nurse who was qualified. Most wanted to take positions in states that don't require the TOEFL. Few, despite years of study for the express purpose of nursing in the U.S., couldn't converse in English well enough to assess a cold.(The company didn't work out, but a family trip to Korea was tax deductable :) )

I personally welcome any qualified foreign nurse who wants to come here to work. We need the help. But predicting a flood of foreign nurses is alarmist, and certainly premature.

Be well....

The Mellow One

heart queen · Apr 6, 2004

I agree with JudyPRN 100%. Who would not return to bedside nursing with safe patient ratio's, TRUE shared governance and adequate bennies and pay? It is the inability to care for patients in a safe environment that drives quality nurses away...in droves.

Wow, what a hot topic! There is a PHD here who tells me and any one else listening, that there is no real shortage of nurses. There are enough who have a license to fill the needs of my state, IN. She maintains that we have a bunch of nurses who have a license, but due to the lousy working conditions, do not practice as nurses. I had wondered about that and now I will be able to read these reports and see if she's right or not. She believes that surveys are done by hospitals. If there aren't enough nurses they don't have to employ enough of us. That way they don't have to make the changes which would attract and hold nurses. I have to agree that some hospitals are probably saying this and using 'the shortage' to excuse the fact they don't have enough nurses. The general hospital here in town is my facility's biggest recruiting factor. They 'pride' themselves on not paying a competative wage, they treat their nurses badly, and have expected nurses to pay 100% of their health/dental/vision insurance. My facility has full benefits, they pay 98% of my health insurance, and all of my dental, stuff and the facility has a union in place for public employees. My job is protected. (Even when we try to fire someone who has blatantly violated policy, we can't hardly do it.) I have worked in many settings and have stayed in this mental health facility for 22 years. While not everything is hunky dory, it is better than the local. I hadn't thought about facilities wanting to dump the highest paid folks, but that does explain all the ads in the paper. I'm looking forward to retiring, but wonder who will be there to care for me when I fall and break my hip?