Healthcare is NOT a basic human right. - page 42

by Asystole RN

48,327 Views | 622 Comments

If one were to read the Constitution one would realize that the Constitution does not grant anyone freedoms, liberties, or rights. The Constitution only protects freedoms, liberties, and rights from transgressions on part of the... Read More


  1. 5
    Quote from toekneejo
    I have been reading these posts since the first page, it bothers me that two arguments continue to rear there ugly heads. The first being that of indivual sad experiences. As nurses I cannot believe that any nurse would be in favor of a person suffering for any reason. Yet, the proponents for ACA keep acting like that is what the opponents are saying. Most of the opponents , are aware there is a problem. They just aren't willing to support a problem that will not fix the healthcare and has the huge potential to be damaging to the country as a whole unit. The second is that I have not seen one post from the proponents addressing the other concern to the opponents, which is how do we create an environment to where the "poor" are inspired to work harder, sacrifice more to be where we are. I grew up a very poor girl. I'd share my story but I choose not to whine and get trapped in the "poor me" scenerio.
    I can support your argument that the poor should work harder to get ahead....to a degree. We cannot know what motivates people, or what factors allow some people to be more resillient than others. Yes, there are theories. I am also self made...out of sheer stubbornness, probably. On my own from 16, dropped out of school, returned to school, worked all the way through...no family support at all. Zero. Years later, I have two degrees. Yay for me and everyone else who made it (slight sarcasm here...) My point is, even with hard work and determination, not everyone is as fortunate. People from all walks of life struggle, and by saying, "Pull up your socks, I did it. Just work hard!" Not that simple, and we should not be passing judgement, theorizing that if you work hard, you can afford the things you desire. At the very least, health care should not need to be bartered for in this manner.
    VanLpn, lindarn, wooh, and 2 others like this.
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    But see, thats the thing. With healthcare for all, taxes will have to go up. So lets say, in Quebec, with a salary of around 85000$ working for an agency, I paid around 45% of my salary in income tax. Thats 38250$ a year in income taxes, plus sales taxes and everything. Now in America, if you make the same salary (I realize that depending on location, salary might not even come close, but this is just to illustrate a point), you have roughly 22000$ in taxes. Take the difference, roughly 16000$. Put it in a savings account. Now here is some money to help pay in the eventuality that you have to get medical care. You can even subtract the cost of private health insurance from that, and put the difference in a savings account.
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    Quote from toekneejo
    I agree not all people have the drive and survival instincts. I also see the USA as breeding these individiuals. Elementary schools and even some parts of high school it is not politically correct to teach this, we have adopted a philosophy of everyone is a winner and it is creating a whole generation of "losers" (in the real world). I struggled and worked since I was old enough to have a weekly "shopper" route (weekly paper). I have frequently held 2-3 jobs at any given time. I did not have this drive to end up right where I started. So I continue to ascertain my right to do with my belongings (including my job and income) as I see fit.
    toekneejo, I don't know how many of my blogs you may have read, but I have stated numerous times that I don't play the politically correctness game. In this case by doing so, we are robbing these kids of the opportunity to learn the invaluable lessons that not everyone wins all the time, there are in fact losers, everyday and sometimes the pain they will feel from losing will be quite significant, but they will get over it, and they will move on. This is a lesson they will invariably learn down the road where the price will undoubtedly be more costly. By our repeatedly telling these kids that everyone is a winner, when in fact they are struggling with something, we set them up for failure. Teenage depression and suicide is at an all time high, corresponding with everyone running around telling them they are a winner, no one is a failure, is there a correlation? What do you think? Kids need to know it is okay to struggle with something, hell, life is a struggle sometimes, you just do it and keep going. If you need help, you ask for it. There’s no shame in that. It’s only a shame, if you don’t ask. Those who are constantly rewarded with the “I’m a winner,” even though they did nothing to actually earn the reward, are only contributing to our burgeoning entitlement problem, where everyone feels as if they are entitled to everything whether they did anything to earn it or not. They need a big awakening and to come to the realization that if they didn’t earn it they don’t get it. No ifs ands or buts. Period!!!.
    Last edit by FMF Corpsman on Oct 5, '12 : Reason: spelling
    lindarn, toekneejo, and joanna73 like this.
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    I don't understand how this is a bailout ... again, right now you are paying insurance premiums to for-profit organization and their profit is giantic ... so, in a universal healthcare system or systems like Canada or Europe, you pay to one institution that redistributes the fund ... it's the same principal. One difference, you cut the competition out and, if I remember from my economy class correctly, demand increases price = increases profit... Why exactly is it in the health insurances best interest nowadays to get us healthy, or keep us healthy through preventative medicine? One distributor for our premiums, be it the government or another institution, cuts out the competatition and, thus, increases in premiums for profit. Ever looked at profits from health insurance companies? If I remember right, they were ranked in the most 20 porfitable business entities in 2011, right along the oil companies.


    Again, I grew up with universal healthcare and I just wished you would experience for just one year, perhaps y'all feel differently. Having said that, and I think I said that before, to compare other countries' systemt to the US is dangerous because so many other factors play in, i.e. mentality and culture.
    lindarn, wooh, Susie2310, and 2 others like this.
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    First of all, you have to work up to $85000 and here education is not free, so first invest. Secondly, I'm pretty certain 45% was not only for healthcare, so how much was actually for healthcare?

    In OH, my tax was much higher (without healthcare) because I paid local, state and fed tax, but in TX, I only pay fed tax (without healthcare).

    Also, with pre-existing conditions, a healthcare insurance forces you to pay an increased premium and they will not pay for treatment/meds of your pre-existing condition in the first year. Also, your insurance can actually refuse to pay, which the healthcare insurance in Canada or Europe cannot. Also, insurance definitely can refuse to pay for meds, determine what meds you get or lower whatever percent they pay for meds.

    So, great you have a savings account - now, you lose your job because your employer does not like the color of hair (right to work states). Can't get a job because you're older, have not the required education, etc. What are you going to do now?

    Having lived under universal systems I came with the same belief here, but I learned really quickly and saving accounts can deplete very, very quickly because medical care is not cheap, even if you pay cash, particular if you are hospitalized.
    lindarn, wooh, Susie2310, and 2 others like this.
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    Those who can't afford to pay-will continue not to pay-we will still have the same situation. Exemptions will be exploited.
    Anytime you have a gov't run entity-increase the bureaucracy-increase the funding for pet projects-increase the lack of interest in your personal plight/circumstance.

    It's out of my control whether or not universal health care gets run through as is or with some reform.

    I'm stating the way I feel as everyone else, and won't be dissuaded. There will always be safety nets for those who need it.

    The middle class will bear the brunt of the ratio of payment based on salary.

    We will all probably have to lower our expectations on our standard of living. I'm working to be as debt free as I can so I can have some cash to be able to be selective with my healthcare and pay out of pocket if needed.

    I don't want a panel telling me when I'm worthy of a type of procedure or if I'm too sick or too old to receive what I feel I need. I'm fiercely independent and that's how I want to stay as long as I am able.
    lindarn, mc3, toekneejo, and 2 others like this.
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    It really gets to me when I here nurses calling other nurses uncaring and selfish! I don't think any of us are against help to people that need it for a short term. It's long term assistance that I don't get. healthcare is a right, which leads to food stamps is a right, free housing , free education and cell phones? Where does the responsibility end really. I am very compassionate and feel most nurses are too. but everyone is struggling nowadays. And a couple extra bucks for the gas,tank instead of additional tax could help us too. Most of the personal stories/struggles that have been mentioned have been temporary. I don't think anyone is against helping people get back on their feet. It's long term and multigenerational assistance they have a,problem with.
    realmaninuniform, mc3, cdsga, and 1 other like this.
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    I don’t know how many Home Health Practitioners we have on this board, but how have you been affected with any recent cuts in Medicare/Medicaid? In Florida, there have been serious cuts due to the fraud perpetrated in South Florida, Miami, and Ft. Lauderdale, and by none other than our illustrious governor’s former companies, and in Texas. This fraud was committed by a few people, yet the industry in the entire State is being punished for it., by being forced to endure serious cutbacks in reimbursement, and now with ObamaCare it will be cut yet again by another 11%, to a total of over 20+% in the last 3 years. These cuts are devastating the Home Healthcare Care Industry in Florida and in Texas. Patients will be required to stay as in-patients longer and pay those rates verses recovering at home. It makes no sense what so ever.
    Last edit by FMF Corpsman on Oct 5, '12 : Reason: HTML tags
    lindarn and toekneejo like this.
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    This debate is about universal health care. Not food stamps, welfare, race, status, etc. Some people equate universal health care with handouts, when the idea behind it benefits everyone. Sure, I pay more in taxes than someone who makes less. By doing so, this ensures that they have access to care, as do I.
    VanLpn, wooh, Susie2310, and 1 other like this.
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    I have worked home health and since it is mostly medicare and medicaid-the documentation is unbelievable. The diagnosis and treatments must match. Supplies are inventoried, and you basically do the best you can. Since home health nurses face this type of care and can get a taste of what government is like when involved in healthcare-my eyes were opened wide-they can articulate better what is to come. The whole premise of home health was to enable better education, get people out of the hospital for treatments that could occur at home and decrease the expense on the patient and the gov't. Keeping beds open for those who truly need hospitalization is still an extremely important value.
    toekneejo likes this.


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