Healthcare is NOT a basic human right.

[Asystole RN]

If one were to read the Constitution one would realize that the Constitution does not grant anyone freedoms, liberties, or rights. The Constitution only protects freedoms, liberties, and rights from transgressions on part of the government. A right is something that is inherent to the individual, comes from that individual, and is maintained by the individual. You are born with such rights like the right to speak freely, the only thing that can be done to that right is to have it infringed. No one can grant a right to another, only limit or impede the exercise of that right.

Healthcare is a human invention that does not exist in the natural environment. Only through the work of others and through the taking of resources from one party and giving to another does healthcare exist. You cannot force someone to give effort and resources to another and call that a right. In the absence of human intervention the individual would live their lives and succumb to the natural forces which would act upon their bodies.

Do I think we should provide preventative care and basic primary care? Sure. Do I think that we can? Maybe. Do I think that healthcare is a basic human right? Absolutely not.

[uRNmyway, ASN, RN]

So what of the way this country was founded...were we not all "illegal" immigrants at some point? How do you define "legal"/"illegal" all vague, societal contracts anyway. We need more post-conventional thinking in this world not less! Why are you so selectively forgetful? Not to mention the slaughter of so many native people...was it not also there right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? Or do only "we" (actually you) have these desires/rights/ (whatever configuration we are using now...)What do you suppose we do now...send them all back? And then what? How do we test(uniformly mind you...we must be "fair") who is a "real" American and who is not. Wow...it could be worse than the "death panels" this line of thought always seems to gravitate toward. Sounds vaguely/if not directly like the rhetoric of so many "supremacists" who want to send so many "back to Africa." I imagine with groups like FAIR and people like J. Tanton, you are bound to see things in a way that discounts the fact that the world is no longer flat...

Ok, well for one, this conversation isnt about illegal immigration. Second, the fact that we were COLONISTS at one point, not illegal immigrants, is besides the point. There was no concept of citizenship among Native Americans, no concept of land ownership. And do you want to know how we define this crazy thing called illegal or legal citizens? Its simple. Either a birth certificate saying you were born here, or naturalization documents, or any legal document from USCIS saying you are legally allowed to be here and work. If you want to talk about how in this day and age we take care of others, you should also realize that in this day and age, you need to LEGALLY immigrate. Because while citizenship to a certain land might be a social construct, so is healthcare for all.

As for the slaughter of Natives. Yes, there was slaughter. It went both ways. But how many conquering people do you know who give the conquered land, benefits, tax exemptions, and apologize every chance they get?

And to your hilarious comment about how we would test to see who is a real American or not, or who is allowed to be here, please refer to my above explanations. If you are a citizen, or have a work visa, or are a permanent resident, then you dont have to leave. Simple.

[uRNmyway, ASN, RN]

Right, and the whole argument that illegal immigrants do jobs that Americans wouldnt do. That is preposterous. Maybe they dont want to do them at the current salaries. But if you have no other options, you increase salary to minimum wage. And lets remember America is currently experiencing a recession with skyhigh unemployment rates. I think assuming that Americans wouldnt do the work is silly. First, we wont know until we try. Second, when you are desperate to feed your family and unemployed, you take what you can get (unless of course the government throws out a bunch of handouts so you dont have to work).

[RockinChick66]

Maslow's says it all. Basic human needs (or rights).

[uRNmyway, ASN, RN]

Maslow's says it all. Basic human needs (or rights).

Nope, needs and rights are not the same thing. Try again.

[RockinChick66]

Nope, needs and rights are not the same thing. Try again.

Ok. Let me say this.....I need insurance and I believe I have the right to have it! If members of congress have the right to all that great health insurance they get, than why shouldn't I have that same right? Are they better than me?

[cdsga]

The pursuit of happiness is in the Declaration of Independence. That aside-the pursuit of happiness for some, is to be left alone, not have insurance and to not take care of themselves. So that premise is individual not collective. You have the right to decide. You are a free moral agent. And with that, you take on the consequences of your actions.

I don't know of any healthcare provider who asks for immigration papers. If they come in with a "self-pay" designation we know that they don't have insurance. We still see patients with health issues that and we do the best we can for them. There are many charitable free clinics in cities and rural areas who see people on a daily basis with donated medications, supplies, volunteer nurse doctors pharmacists and dentists who dole out free care.

I know many people who immigrate legally to this country-go through the legit channels to become a citizen of this country. It takes time. But I daresay any other country would allow this illegal situation happen. We'd have to show our visa, papers etc, at a moment's notice and wouldn't be caught without them due to harsh immigration and deportation laws in these countries. The outcry is astounding. The law in the US is very clear. If you are here illegally-then you should be deported. You knew you entered the country outside the law and are living on borrowed time.

For those who "must" clean houses then cook for "rich" people, I have a problem with that. They don't have to do it.

[wooh, BSN, RN]

In addition, how humanitarian is it to acknowledge and encourage underpayment to a group of people? I also believe that it may take awhile however if the jobs that are being filled by non-residents were to be vacated due to them going home Americans who are not counted in the unemployment figures ( due to they have stopped looking), would fill them thus putting more Americans to work.

And guess how much you're going to be paying for chicken. And vegetables. Sure, we can employee "Americans" to pick our fields, but since they work at about a 1/3 to 1/2 as fast as the guys that were doing it, We'll be paying that much more for our vegetables. Imagine how much beef is going to cost now that there are people reporting their accidents in the slaughterhouses to OSHA instead of quietly taking their now single-armed spanish speaking body home. Got to pay for a new arm if you can't threaten them with INS so they'll keep quiet and disappear.

Right, and the whole argument that illegal immigrants do jobs that Americans wouldnt do. That is preposterous. Maybe they dont want to do them at the current salaries. But if you have no other options, you increase salary to minimum wage. And lets remember America is currently experiencing a recession with skyhigh unemployment rates. I think assuming that Americans wouldnt do the work is silly. First, we wont know until we try. Second, when you are desperate to feed your family and unemployed, you take what you can get (unless of course the government throws out a bunch of handouts so you dont have to work).

It really is preposterous, and I have a solution. A Canadian could go back to where they came from and open up that nursing job for one of our many out of work nurses here. I'm sure they'd rather work instead of getting a bunch of government handouts. But as long as we allow foreign nurses into this country, we're stuck putting unemployed nurses on welfare and food stamps, and WIC and all sorts of government handouts. There's a border that I can get behind shutting down. Canadians aren't offering low cost labor like people from the southern border offer. So Canadians are ONLY taking away jobs that Americans do want to fill. Like the many nursing graduates and experienced nurses looking for work.

If only we could find one Canadian that took a nursing job in the U.S.A. That's one nursing job that could then be opened up to a true born in the good ol' U.S.ofA. Where to look? WHERE TO LOOK????

[wooh, BSN, RN]

And don't fret. I'm coming after Bieber and the Titanic soundtrack lady next! Just watch any signing competition, sooooo many americans that want the jobs those Canadians have.

I figure once we get that border conquered, we can then start working on the southern border. There's a reason for building a north wall first. We'll need cheap labor for that. So we can't wall off the south before we get the walls in place.

Any suggestions on how high the walls should be? And how fast should I hit the border a few times to bring down some Canadian beer?

I promise not to bring a foreign kid who might lose his visa across the border with me.

[realmaninuniform]

This is to 37 degrees -

No it is not irrelevant, whether you are or in your case NOT a nurse. This is a site and a thread for NURSES. You are clearly not one.

Did anyone else just hear that? It was 37 degrees' credibility going down the drain....

We deal with the sick, the injured, the young, the dieing, 24/7... What do you do? Haunt internet chat boards attempting to prove something which has already been debunked time and time again? All in the name of "research"?

Take your propaganda somewhere else comrade. It's not welcome here in the land of the free, and home of the brave!

[realmaninuniform]

"Do you deny saying that? What percentage of the uninsured do you think are the working poor, who can't qualify for Medicaid? As soon as you have a McJob, you're on your own."

First of all, no. I do not deny saying I've seen people in the ED with iPhones, manicured hairs, nails, or designer clothes, with a medical card. If you poll the entire nation of ED nurses, they would unanimously agree with that. Does that make me, and every other ED nurse in the country a bigot? No. Does it make you look like desperate fool trying to cling to whatever fringe element of legitimacy you may have left? Yes.

As for the whole McJob comment, who did your god king Obama pardon from providing health insurance to it's employees? Well that would be your McJob employers, Wal-Mart, and McDonalds.

Please, if you're going to try to make a case for socialized medicine, at least have a background in the field to start, then get your facts straight.

[realmaninuniform]

"According to your religion, unregulated enterprise will always do the best things for the citizenry-what's best for GM is best for the country. Their fiduciary responsibility, as private corporations, is to their shareholders. That is it. If they can increase their profits by poisoning a stream with tailings, destroying a towns water supply, then that is their responsibility. (If the town then has to truck in bottled water, isn't the town effectively subsidizing the offending company? Isn't that socialism?)

I trust you are familiar with the tragedy of the commons. Are you?

* The periodic runs on banks before FDIC insurance was a problem."

So simple. Your first point is a logical fallacy. Well played though, well played. First of all you need to go back into history and discover the root cause of the "bank runs". It was the creation of the Federal Reserve in 1913. Much of why the Great Depression happened was because of fractional reserve banking. The banks lent out more money than they had on deposit. So it's only natural that these "bank runs" weren't really bank runs at all, rather, depositors trying to withdrawal their money. The only problem is... WHOOPS! The banks, thinking the Federal Reserve had them covered, already lent out their money, and didn't have anything to pay them with.... UH OH! Then the great progressive FDR went ahead and pardoned the banks for their misdeads, and confiscated the citizens gold...

Please, tell me more about how the government is for the common people!

[realmaninuniform]

And suddenly I remembered my Charlemagne... "Let my armies be the rocks and the trees, and the birds in the sky."

37 Degrees - You make no intelligible points whatsoever. I will refrain from dedicating anymore time to debunking your nonsense which has already proven a failure numerous times over in the last century. Debating you factually and intellectually, is like arguing with a drunk or an addict. No matter how many times you prove them wrong, they still won't accept it.

You want universal health care and all it's glories? You got it with the ACA, along with the downfall of our Republic (yes the United States is a Republic, not a democracy). Time will show all. Enjoy your irrational and mismanaged care!

I bid you "a dieu" my incompetent, non health-care working friend!