All I want for Christmas is a single payer plan!

[CaLLaCoDe]

It's pretty hard to rebut anything this congressman says. He makes an argument for the right as well as for the left. I only wish we didn't have such a need to preserve the health insurance industry at our own health expense:

[Onekidneynurse]

I sure hope onekidneynurse didn't go to a publicly funded nursing school. I find it ironic that some people who utilize cheap, public subsidized education feel the government should not also offer cheap, publicly healthcare.

I am sad to find out that there are nurses out there who are not only uncompassionate but vocal about it. Compassion is so vital in nursing.

I did go to a STATE college. And I took out government loans to pay for that TAXPAYER funded, MY TAXES BTW, schooling. I also got a couple of scholarships.

I went to a tech college for my LPN diploma and I didn't get any CETA funds then. But I did pass the nursing licensure test the FIRST TIME. And became a tax paying citizen. Unlike so others at the time.

I am compassionate. Why should a patient with liver failure and kidney failure get albumin every time they get HD 2 vials many times. When a cancer patient could have used that intervention. Why should the liver patient get blood transfusion after blood transfusion while a MVA patient dies for lack of blood in the blood bank. OH and BTW all for free. He lived in subsidized housing and had no job, no health care insurance etc. But did have the money for cigs and 15 beers a day. BTW he died recently. All for naught. And so did the MVA patient. So tell me which care was compassionate. The liver failure patient couldn't eat, he was bloated, gross generalized edema we couldn't get off because of b/p's in 60's, in pain, sob, no GT/N/G. So tell me how keeping him alive in that state is compassionate?

[tewdles, RN]

Unfortunately, too many people (with some nurses included) believe that compassion is based at least in part upon a determination of a person's actions or behavior "deserving" the compassion of another. This is true, as well, when speaking about the concept of grace and mercy...as humans we also often see these things as rewards for behavior, earned. So, many times, people believe that they are compassionate because they do feel compassion for some, but have perfectly well thought out reasons for not having compassion in other cases. Of course, just like mercy or grace, compassion is not something which we can earn one from another. We will either receive it from another person or not...it is entirely up to them. The notion that one person deserves our compassion more than another is reasonably commonplace in the world and is increasingly apparent in healthcare and nursing.

Certainly compassion is something that can be learned, but is often more of a trait than a skill. Antonyms of compassion include indifference or apathy. We do see evidence of indifference and apathy in nursing, particularly in some of the posts on allnurses. Clearly, nurses who are experiencing burn out or are maximally stressed in a job may have difficulty with showing compassion. Please know that some posts may come across as lacking in compassion but they may not actually reflect the "heart" of that nurse. Of course, when multiple posts in multiple threads by a single author have a less than compassionate tone, it becomes more likely that they are offering insight into that person's actually sentiment. As well, when people feel threatened in some way they are less likely to exhibit compassion for the plight of another. This is, perhaps, demonstrated in health insurance discussions...people afraid that they will lose benefits they currently have begin to experience "selfish" concern rather than compassionate concern.

I encourage you to enjoy allnurses and to let go of the negative and argumentative posts which may be directed your way in disagreement. Most of the folks here are perfectly capable of having polite and discussions and debates.

I look forward to reading more of your thoughts and comments.

[Onekidneynurse]

Unfortunately, too many people (with some nurses included) believe that compassion is based at least in part upon a determination of a person's actions or behavior "deserving" the compassion of another. This is true, as well, when speaking about the concept of grace and mercy...as humans we also often see these things as rewards for behavior, earned. So, many times, people believe that they are compassionate because they do feel compassion for some, but have perfectly well thought out reasons for not having compassion in other cases. Of course, just like mercy or grace, compassion is not something which we can earn one from another. We will either receive it from another person or not...it is entirely up to them. The notion that one person deserves our compassion more than another is reasonably commonplace in the world and is increasingly apparent in healthcare and nursing.

Certainly compassion is something that can be learned, but is often more of a trait than a skill. Antonyms of compassion include indifference or apathy. We do see evidence of indifference and apathy in nursing, particularly in some of the posts on allnurses. Clearly, nurses who are experiencing burn out or are maximally stressed in a job may have difficulty with showing compassion. Please know that some posts may come across as lacking in compassion but they may not actually reflect the "heart" of that nurse. Of course, when multiple posts in multiple threads by a single author have a less than compassionate tone, it becomes more likely that they are offering insight into that person's actually sentiment. As well, when people feel threatened in some way they are less likely to exhibit compassion for the plight of another. This is, perhaps, demonstrated in health insurance discussions...people afraid that they will lose benefits they currently have begin to experience "selfish" concern rather than compassionate concern.

I encourage you to enjoy allnurses and to let go of the negative and argumentative posts which may be directed your way in disagreement. Most of the folks here are perfectly capable of having polite and discussions and debates.

I look forward to reading more of your thoughts and comments.

Yes we do have compassion in this country for our ANIMALS. Why do we keep people alive in pain. Curled up in a fetal position covered in decubs? I don't call that compassionate.

Maybe you should join the thread here about Tube feedings. You'll find lots of "uncompassionate' nurses, as you've described there.

We had a HD patient who pleaded to stop HD but her family and the docs talked her into continuing. She was 88 years old. Getting up at 0500 coming to HD, walking with a cane on the icy parking lot at -10 degrees in the winter. She finally had enough and I visited her in the hospital She said. "They let me have OJ yesterday, and I can have salt on my food" She died happey.

[tewdles, RN]

Yes we do have compassion in this country for our ANIMALS. Why do we keep people alive in pain. Curled up in a fetal position covered in decubs? I don't call that compassionate.

Maybe you should join the thread here about Tube feedings. You'll find lots of "uncompassionate' nurses, as you've described there.

We had a HD patient who pleaded to stop HD but her family and the docs talked her into continuing. She was 88 years old. Getting up at 0500 coming to HD, walking with a cane on the icy parking lot at -10 degrees in the winter. She finally had enough and I visited her in the hospital She said. "They let me have OJ yesterday, and I can have salt on my food" She died happey.

I have been reading and following the tube feeding thread. I see many thoughtful and compassionate posts there. I see nurses struggling with balancing compassion for patients with frustration they feel when family members (or MDs) are making choices which are sometimes not in the best interests of the patient.

Isn't it sad when a physician will participate in "convincing" an elderly person that they must continue a medical intervention (like HD) rather than empower them to have the dignity of making their own choices? I am glad that your little lady was able to have some quality and dignity at the end of her life.

[UKRNinUSA, RN]

I am against futile care and believe that hospice care is very much underutilized in the USA. Yes I have seen patients in the states that you describe above, and I don't like it either. I have had ethical dilemnas frequently in my many years of practice as a nurse.

But, onekidneynurse you missed my point. This young girl was someone's someone not a "sob story". Perhaps I should have said that you lack empathy.

Which leads me to my next point. If our representatives and senators had more empathy for the common man than they do health insurance companies and big pharma, we wouldn't be having this debate. We would already have a single payor system.

The objections to single payor are not based upon fear of lack of competition or lack of choice or government interference. Its all about money and power and brainwashing the common man into believing the hype just so they can retain their power and their money, at his expense.

No amount of verbage can convince me otherwise.

[Not_A_Hat_Person, RN]

My husband and I are currently battling CIGNA to cover surgery. They're refusing because he had a pre-existing condition: 63 days without health insurance. I've had CIGNA before, so I'm not surprised they're pulling this.

I'd like the people who are fighting single-payer to sign up with a company like CIGNA or United Health care, get medical treatment, then try to have it covered. You'd be amazed at the excuses they'll use: pre-existing condition (which can be anything), don't feel like it, the moon is in the seventh house and Jupiter is aligned with Mars.

A single payor system run by our government at this point won't work.... That's the simple truth. Many do want or can't see it. I feel it's my duty to keep that truth alive as long as I can.

What about the VA? That's single payer, and many veterans are very happy with it.

I live near the Canadian border. Canadians cross the border to shop, but not for health care. National health care there has many problems, especially for anglophones in Quebec who want service in English, but no one wants to trade their system for an American-style system.

[Onekidneynurse]

I am against futile care and believe that hospice care is very much underutilized in the USA. Yes I have seen patients in the states that you describe above, and I don't like it either. I have had ethical dilemnas frequently in my many years of practice as a nurse.

But, onekidneynurse you missed my point. This young girl was someone's someone not a "sob story". Perhaps I should have said that you lack empathy.

Which leads me to my next point. If our representatives and senators had more empathy for the common man than they do health insurance companies and big pharma, we wouldn't be having this debate. We would already have a single payor system.

The objections to single payor are not based upon fear of lack of competition or lack of choice or government interference. Its all about money and power and brainwashing the common man into believing the hype just so they can retain their power and their money, at his expense.

No amount of verbage can convince me otherwise.

The sob story was an inappropriate statement in this instance. I just kinda get tired of the left playing on people's sympathies. There are just as many stories for the other side. There are many who are getting way too much treatment and their lives are being prolonged for the almighty $$$$... That was my point.

The objections to single payer IMHO are about a government run healthcare program. In the tube feeding thread it's evident that tube feedings allow Medicare to pay more for care of people. Someone being kept alive to get government money. Most of our politicians aren't medical people. They don't see the day to day issues we deal with. They shouldn't be making these decisions. HD is Medicare driven that's why it's done too much,,, again IMHO.

If the government decides to intervene then we get the Death Panels thingy or the "They want to kill Grandma"n people crying foul. And then they cite other countries failures i.e. Great Britain's refusal of breast cancer medicines. Many of the countries with UHC around the world are having $$$ issues with their plans. The have much smaller populations than we do. There are a myriad of reasons I don't like the issue of government interference. Many cite education and police protection etc. They are social programs but they help everyone and most everyone pays into them. We can't let someone's house burn down because it might take out the house next door. And we can't have criminals ( although we do in this country) running around killing people. But socialism has to end at some point in the care of the people. If we decide healthcare is a right then how long will it be before food is a right or housing is a right. Are we gonna be required to buy food ( actually there a laws now about trans fats I remember when eggs were so bad but now their not wonder if that might happen down the road with transfats) and what food will we be required to buy only veggies no meat. What is Congress decides meat is terrible for us? Will we, at some time, be required to buy shelter and if we don't will we be fined. There are some pending laws to make it illegal to give $$$ to beggars on the street. They can't fine the beggars they have no money and clog up the jails. So the rest of us will be fined for giving money to a beggar on the street. Hey, wait it's my money, I can't give a couple of $$$ to a poor woman on the street? Those are my fears. Are they right around the corner. No, I don't think so but I do think they could happen. Do you know that Hawaii might not be able to hold elections in the fall because they can't afford them? The state is close to bankruptcy. Why?

What we need is education about the process of dying. We need families to be told it's ok to let Grandma go. It's a good thing to stop painful treatments etc.

I think that's a long way off. This government just doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy feeling that they will be able to administer a good program. That's my objection to UHC.

The Post Office is in Billions of $$$ of debt. Did you know that when gas was over $4 a gallon by law the Post Office wasn't allowed to increase their fees, so they just had to eat their losses. That's no way to run a program.

Oh dear I'll get down now. Just some of my random thoughts.

[Onekidneynurse]

My husband and I are currently battling CIGNA to cover surgery. They're refusing because he had a pre-existing condition: 63 days without health insurance. I've had CIGNA before, so I'm not surprised they're pulling this.

I'd like the people who are fighting single-payer to sign up with a company like CIGNA or United Health care, get medical treatment, then try to have it covered. You'd be amazed at the excuses they'll use: pre-existing condition (which can be anything), don't feel like it, the moon is in the seventh house and Jupiter is aligned with Mars.

What about the VA? That's single payer, and many veterans are very happy with it.

I live near the Canadian border. Canadians cross the border to shop, but not for health care. National health care there has many problems, especially for anglophones in Quebec who want service in English, but no one wants to trade their system for an American-style system.

I've had both CIGNA and United Healthcare. Never had a problem with them. I used to drive a Chevy never had a problem with that either.

My son was in a Veterans hospital. It was old and dirty. And the VA refused disability to a young man who lost half his brain in Iraq. He had to learn how to do everything all over. Of course, the VA has awarded disability bennies to servicemen/women with STD's hemmorhoids (sp) and migraines. My son's ex g/f is getting disability for CONGENTIAL foot problems. She had pins put in her feet when she was a child looooooooong before she entered the Corps. I'm not sure how she passed the physical but then again we were in IRAQ and she is a linguist. I bet she's one of the one's the VA polled about their care.

And I live a border state too. We sure did have to speak alot of French in the summer when we got all those Total Knee's. Good thing the nuns taught me Canandial French. LOL