Concurrency and Deficiency - What do these entail exactly?

[mpgj83]

So I'm still in the process of applying to CA BRN and am already anticipating that the concurrency and MS/OB-deficiency issues will also be obstacles for me. Call me crazy but I'm going to try anyway.

But just out of curiosity, I'd like to know how CA BRN precisely define concurrency and deficiency. Does any of you on here know?

I'm just going to delve right into specific examples...

In the Philippines, maternal and child nursing spans two semesters.

>The first semester covers nursing care management of normal mothers, infants, children, and families; this class spans 72 theory hours and 204 clinical hours.

>The next semester covers nursing care management of pregnant women, infants, children, and families who have problems or are at risk of them; this class spans 90 theory hours and 306 clinical hours.

>In sum, our maternal and child nursing requires 162 theory hours and 510 clinical hours. "OB" is somewhere in there, and I am just going to estimate that it takes up half: 81 theory hours and 153 clinical hours. (If "OB" does not cover GYNE, then maybe it covers half of this yet: 40.5 theory hours and 76.5 lecture hours.)

>We are given the first semester, the summer session after the first semester, the second semester, and the summer session after the second semester to comply with our 3 handling and 3 essential newborn care cases.

A lot of the posts on here have stated that your theory and clinicals are not concurrent if you did not finish your cases within the "same semester." But we have 2 semesters. So does it only become an issue if we complete cases during the first and/or second summer session?

And regarding OB deficiency, how many lecture and clinical hours does CA BRN want anyway? Is there a state-approved curriculum that we can peruse online to make comparisons of the theory and clinical components ourselves?

CA BRN is probably inundated with applications and so I just think maybe they send out ready templates for Philippine applicants right after quickly scanning through their unit loads and academic calendars. But maybe they have little time to look at the nitty gritty specifics that would otherwise reveal that maybe these applicants really do satisfy California requirements.

So it would be nice if we ourselves could compare their requirements with our own Philippine nursing curriculum. Is there published legislation, or something of this nature, covering this that we can look at? (For the Philippines, nursing schools adopt CHED CMO 14, series of 2009: http://www.bonphilippines.org/images/downloads/CMO14series2009BSN.pdf) This knowledge would place in a better position to challenge whatever cursory assessment they may make of our nursing education based on past applicants from the Philippines.

[steppybay]

Yeah I've read through those articles and they're pretty depressing for those of us foreign grads with legitimate credentials. About 5 years ago I had a cousin with a Philippine BSN and who had applied for CA licensure by examination, and it took only 2 months to get his ATT. Then he took his NCLEX and began working as a nurse shortly thereafter. Sigh, how the times have changed.

So at the advice of my aunt, who is a nurse in CA, I shouldn't send that letter to CA BRN because it's may come off as argumentative or inflammatory in some way, possibly causing me to become profiled. So when I get my Philippine RN license in a couple weeks, I'm just going to send my application in the usual way.

I'm hoping to get some advice as to how I should go about doing this...

A. Should I just go the traditional route and send in the bare minimum for the initial application? (And then wait for CA BRN's response and request for follow-up materials, and then send those in at a later time?)

or

B. To save time, send in everything that CA BRN seems to have been requesting from Philippine grads as supplementary material after their initial application? This means I would also just send in: photocopies of US passport, SSN card, academic calendars, clinical rotation log, case forms, etc (hmmm...am I missing anything?) I would also probably send in a letter from my dean (if she will write one for me) explaining clearly that while I have had to do oncall duty to complete my case requirements, theory and clinical practice components per each given semester were indeed nevertheless still concurrent--that clinicals and case-completion duties are not the same.

Yes, I can see that your aunt may have a point, in that, you might get some kind of negative remarks on your application and could affect you in any future dealings with the CA BRN.

I don't see any issues if you were to include all the items mentioned in option "B". It should hopefully shorten the time delay in that they will probably ask of you anyways. I would do it so that all your documentation takes a format of indexing each of the forms, i.e., (a). Application, (b)., US passport with all the pages, etc.

I was in the NCLEX forum and there's been a 2008 PH grad who was just recently granted her ATT for the RN exam, so who knows? Maybe the CA BRN is re-thinking their stance on the concurrency issue?

[mpgj83]

I was under the impression that most Phil grads started being denied if you graduated 2009 or later? When did CA BRN start becoming strict anyway?

[steppybay]

I was under the impression that most Phil grads started being denied if you graduated 2009 or later? When did CA BRN start becoming strict anyway?

No, there's been a couple that graduated in 2004, but that's seems to be the borderline, as someone here just got her endorsement passed into CA being a 2004 grad. There's been PH nurses trying to endorse with their 2005-2006 documentation and being denied.

The CA BRN started the enforcement of the 25 plus year concurrency rule around Nov. 2011.

Which to me leads to my statement as follows: I think in the press release by the CA BRN posted earlier, it was indicated that the guilty person mentioned the year 2003, so I'm sure the CA BRN investigators have been following their leads for some time now. I bet the ring leader doesn't plan to step foot in the States for another few decades as I'm sure they might even put out a Interpol warrant as I think the scope of the fraud is much larger than expected.

Earlier last year there was a brief discussion that the CA BRN can, may or will start to look closer at those nurses from the Phils upon their renewal times. Not sure if that meant by requesting a new set of transcripts for re-evaluation or what, so you can see why those that committed these frauds are only hurting the PH students and nurses that were honest and worked hard to only be spoiled by those that simply purchased their nursing documents.

Ok, off my soapbox!

[steppybay]

I don’t know who those posters are but I agree completely that those who falsify documents should be reported. But for those of us who have honestly paid their dues with blood, sweat and tears in nursing school should be given a fair chance to prove themselves to be competent with the NCLEX.

Here's just two of other's statement and these are their own direct comments AND why the CA BRN is requiring all the EXTRA sets of documents (clinical books signed and dated, RLE books and etc) from the PH applicants to verify if they MATCH exactly what the sealed transcripts from our schools is sending them.

From kuyafern: I actually read the article from CA BRN. It's so crazy how they're hiring all of those investigators. I feel angry and at the same time disappointed at those applicants who had to fake their degrees. I know some students are known for trading cases with classmates to complete cases and for a fact I know students are very clever in altering cases. I would not be surprised if there will be applicants who alter their cases just to have concurrent cases. All I can say is selfish.

To applicants altering their papers:

I've come a long way to become an RN. A US-RN. I've worked hard for this and have been honest on my application. It's not hard guys. I remember joining this forum last year around march-april looking for help so I could get a license in the US. If you are so focused on becoming an RN in California, then meet the requirements, don't alter your cases, hours or other requirements. You will just ruin things for those honest applicants.

To everyone else, keep your head up guys.

From squallnisha: I strongly agree to you guys. I know a lot of students that altered and adjusted their documents to comply with the BRN requirements just to stay here in CA and be with their families. But, the main question is how will they know if it is really altered or not? Like my case. I was accused of altering my cases by my evaluator but honestly I really did all my cases concurrent with my theories. Most of my groupmate where midwifes and took Nursing classes to become a nurse. Most of them already completed their cases for DR/CDR, that given me the opportunity to complete my cases at the same time with my theory. I was really devastated when she told me those things but I found out that I was not the only one she accused of altering or faking documents. But, what I know for sure, this will not stop me becoming an RN here in Cali.

******************

Back to the topic, this is why the CA BRN suspects every application coming in from the Phils. They the evaluators and I'm sure all of their managers and the higher ups all the way to RN boards of directors, they have been ALL tricked and deceived by many PH grads and nurses, so thus everyone of us are going to be in the same pot. It's obvious that these applicants seem to be fairly new grads and probably comprises both males and females. Yes, it's only a few but I think that "few" is closer to a hundred or more as many have heard and know of the concurrency issues and are doing whatever the heck it takes to make the changes so they can qualify and the heck to all you other poor souls.

So guess why some of your "friends, friends of a friend or whatever friends" passed the CA BRN and got their ATT's and why so many today are now "forced out" of the CA market, forced to scramble to look for CA schools with nearly impossible enrollment and crowded out, forced to move out of state to find an approved NCLEX-RN state and to find a job in another state, not called "home". Recognize that there's a 3 year time bomb (in CA) on finishing any of the deficiencies before the 3 years of the application date expires or face the application being thrown out and have to start all over again with new non refundable application fee$$.

This is why I advocate that if you guys now of these "friends or batchmates or batchmate of a batchmate to simply let the CA BRN Enforcement know of them and you can do this without giving out your name and let the CA BRN do their work. These "friends and buddies" caused you and us your potential job, your livelihood to stay and work in CA, your family sanity and to those with both nagging and supportive family members on "why can't you stay in CA?"

I firmly believe that if we as honest and hard working PH grads and nurses cab show to the CA BRN that we stand with them to fight these fraudsters the better we will appear in the eyes of the CA BRN higher ups, but also to the CA evaluators to let them know we are against those that have hurt us all so badly. Please do not review our applications as "false and fake and full of crap".

Here's the CA BRN Enforcement FAQ's and of interest is the "FRAUD or theft offenses":

Board of Registered Nursing - Enforcement Frequently Asked Questions

[mpgj83]

So I spoke with my dean recently. The concurrency issue apparently has been a big agenda topic during their ADPCN meetings of late. I'm not really sure what they're planning to do about it but it seems to foster impassioned debate among their ranks.

My dean told me that the case requirements existed since the 1950's. And it has existed as a tradition now, being passed down from one revised BSN curriculum to the next. However, she says she's always been for their abolishment, because the numbers (previously 5, 5, 5 and now 3, 3, 3) are rather arbitrary. Moreover, if there are going to be requirements for the DR and the OR, there might as well be case requirements for all areas in nursing. Why not set requirements for various ward procedures? She says these numbers aren't necessarily the best way to measure competency, because PRS rating scales, though standardized, are really hard to apply uniformly between all clinical instructors, across all hospitals, and among all students. There should be a better way to evaluate competency that doesn't require particular "cases."

I guess I can see her logic, and I myself would support eliminating them as a formal requirement. Seems like everything would be so much easier if they never existed.

[steppybay]

So I spoke with my dean recently. The concurrency issue apparently has been a big agenda topic during their ADPCN meetings of late. I'm not really sure what they're planning to do about it but it seems to foster impassioned debate among their ranks.

My dean told me that the case requirements existed since the 1950's. And it has existed as a tradition now, being passed down from one revised BSN curriculum to the next. However, she says she's always been for their abolishment, because the numbers (previously 5, 5, 5 and now 3, 3, 3) are rather arbitrary. Moreover, if there are going to be requirements for the DR and the OR, there might as well be case requirements for all areas in nursing. Why not set requirements for various ward procedures? She says these numbers aren't necessarily the best way to measure competency, because PRS rating scales, though standardized, are really hard to apply uniformly between all clinical instructors, across all hospitals, and among all students. There should be a better way to evaluate competency that doesn't require particular "cases."

I guess I can see her logic, and I myself would support eliminating them as a formal requirement. Seems like everything would be so much easier if they never existed.

EXACTLY!! THANKS!! This is exactly what I was mentioning last year! While it's a cool idea with my USA nursing friends that we PH students get to help out with the babies dept., cord delivery and all that, in the actual delivery room with assisting. They also see that as a major LIABILITY to both the new student, to the hospital, to the parents.

Something they would not want to face in the case of a simple accident from slipping on the floor, to dropping a baby etc, which would end one's nursing career before graduating. Imagine being part of a multi-million lawsuit against you and here you are just trying to get thru the tough rigors of nursing school.

Anyways, back to your point, yes, it would be great to totally eliminate the cases requirements from the historic 5-5-5 to the newly adjusted 3-3-3 to 0-0-0. But the reality is this (as well as mentioned by my USA nursing friends in their minds), there's no way the CHED, PRC and PNA will allow the FREE usages of the PH students to be taken away from the understaffed PH hospitals.

NO way, will the pride of the top management and managers and supervisors of the PH nursing world come down to simply meet the State's BRN requirements, especially since over 33% of all PH grads head to CA as their primary destination. NO way.

In a certain sense, they don't have to either as the PH nursing boards and all their related arms have to be more concerned with what's good for the nation, not for those wanting to leave the country. Where's the loyalty, lol.

Btw, did you ask her to see if there's any information that supposedly the CHED, PRC and PNA all came to see the CA BRN staff members to discuss these matters, this was supposedly happened in Dec. 2012 and Feb. 2013. Ask her to dig deep to see if there was anything to these rumors?