You don't need RN experience to get an NP job - page 3

I'm a new grad Adult and Geri Primary Care NP. I do not have RN experience. Since I started seriously pounding the pavement in my job search, I have had numerous phone and in person interviews. ... Read More

  1. by   BCgradnurse
    Quote from kadphilly
    Don't worry, we don't want to see you either. I already have a 2,000 patient following.
    I took this as being tongue in cheek, not childish.
  2. by   BCgradnurse
    Quote from Susie2310
    There was a similar thread recently titled: "Seeking Advice: Direct Entry Blues." Several people, including myself, pointed out the value of actual bedside nursing experience prior to assuming an advanced practice nursing role, and provided situational examples, which didn't go down too well with some of the "No nursing experience experience necessary for NP folks."

    I am so glad that my family sees a highly qualified and experienced Internal Medicine physician for their primary care. We also always state that we want to see a physician and not a NP/PA when we go to the Urgent Care.
    Keep in mind that Susie2310 is not a NP, and so really has no personal, experiential knowledge of how or if RN experience is critical to the role of NP. She has never worked in that role. She has an opinion, which she is absolutely entitled to.

    I haven't worked as a RN other than clinicals, but have worked in the role of PCP and specialty provider, and can say that not having that experience hasn't held me back. It never stopped me from getting a job or providing excellent care to my patients. I use very little of what I used in my RN program as a NP. Might RN experience have added something to my practice? Perhaps, but not having it was not detrimental.

    FWIW-Many patients in my practice prefer to see me over the MD. Most are happy with either of us. Both the MD and I are cool with that.
  3. by   FullGlass
    Quote from kadphilly
    We just hired a brand new NP without RN experience. And she was offered the job out of about 6-7 candidates who had experience. She interviewed well and went to a top program undergrad and grad. Ultimately, the MD's at my practice wanted a new grad that they could mold, and someone who went to a strong school. I do t think having RN experience matters in the primary car role.
    Quote from ACNP2017
    One of the great things about NP's have been the RN experience they generally possess. I personally feel the bedside nursing experience is invaluable and sets us aside from PA's.

    Most NPs had to work during his or her schooling to support themselves.

    I don't care for the salty undertone of the OP. Just because one can, doesn't always mean they should.
    My tone was factural. I'm not here to debate "should," as that boat has sailed. I'm reporting the reality of the NP job market.
  4. by   FullGlass
    Quote from Dodongo
    Ok, I've go to call BS on this. So you're trying to tell me that recruiters or potential employers are telling you that it is a PLUS, or desirable, that you don't have RN experience. Not that it's just neutral or not a concern, but that they are actually glad that you have no RN experience. I find that exceedingly hard to believe.
    Respectfully, you are misinterpreting my post. I merely reported what I was told. These employers did not say it was a plus or a minus. I am providing a direct quote of their reactions.
  5. by   FullGlass
    Quote from Dodongo
    Ok, I've go to call BS on this. So you're trying to tell me that recruiters or potential employers are telling you that it is a PLUS, or desirable, that you don't have RN experience. Not that it's just neutral or not a concern, but that they are actually glad that you have no RN experience. I find that exceedingly hard to believe.
    Quote from kadphilly
    Not the OP, but we just specifically hired a brand new NP without experience as an RN because the medical director and physician wanted myself and the other NP/MD staff to train and "mold" them from the get go. And they wanted someone who graduated from a top tier school. They actively sought out someone who was brand new.
    Quote from Dodongo
    Let's all be frank here, compared to PA or MD training, NP training is lacking. But that lacking training is predicated on the assumption that matriculants into NP programs have experience as a RN.

    The problem now is that NP programs, by and large, are allowing students into the programs with no RN experience, but the programs have remained unchanged. There hasn't been an increase in clinical time, or credit hours, yet NPs are clamoring for more and more independence.

    Education is valuable. Experience is valuable. And strict requirements to protect a professional field should be viewed as more valuable. As the market becomes ever more saturated and salaries for NPs drop we can remember that we did this to ourselves.
    There has been absolutely no evidence that NPs with RN experience have superior outcomes. NO EVIDENCE. The little evidence that exists, and I agree this should be studied more, indicates there is no difference. All the top schools now have direct entry MSN programs for primary care NPs. Please note: acute care NPs must still have RN experience. I do agree that we need to crack down on for profit NP schools. Honestly, I am sick and tired of reading here that there is a surplus of NPs. Absolutely not true. While there may be a surplus in certain areas, there is a shortage overall and there are many, many parts of the US desperate for any healthcare provider - MD, NP, PA - as I have seen in my extensive travels during my job search. Really, there is nothing so special about me other than I went to a good school. I'm fat, female, and over forty. I have no RN experience. My previous career was completely unrelated to healthcare. Yet, I have multiple job offers for very good pay. I think $120K for a new grad in a very low cost of living area that is also beautiful, along with excellent benefits, is a great offer. The minimum offer I've received is $110K in a very low cost of living area.
  6. by   FullGlass
    Quote from JKL33
    Agreed!

    Just the same, there's nothing about someone's individual intelligence that can be fairly commented on just by knowing that someone took a DE approach as opposed to traditional. So the comment was thrown out as either a shameless ego boost, or else the interviewer was simply somewhat ignorant and/or biased.

    By self-depreciating, do you mean self-deprecating? Self-deprecation is the idea of undervaluing or downplaying one's ability in a way that disparages the self. I think I understand your argument, although that has nothing to do with the comment I initially quoted. Say we agree that bedside experience has no positive value. That doesn't inherently mean that it has a negative value, either - which is what the poster implies by taking the interviewer's off-the-cuff comment so seriously.
    I merely reported facts. I was very surprised at these comments and I didn't take them so seriously. And these comments occurred multiple times, not just once each. My intent was to provide a realistic picture of the job search market for new grad NPs in the Western US - California, Oregon, Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, Hawaii, and Montana - all states in which I interviewed. I also stated that my post would probably upset some people, as it clearly has.
  7. by   KatieMI
    Quote from Dodongo
    Ok, I've go to call BS on this. So you're trying to tell me that recruiters or potential employers are telling you that it is a PLUS, or desirable, that you don't have RN experience. Not that it's just neutral or not a concern, but that they are actually glad that you have no RN experience. I find that exceedingly hard to believe.
    You may believe it or not, but one of the qualities highly valued for NPs is, that is to say, ability to be trained exactly the way the provider or practice required. And it is well known fact among providers that the longer a nurse works at bedside, the less moldable he or she would be.

    There is a study which evaluated attitudes of hiring MDs toward new NPs which found negative correlation between the perceived level of NP preparation for practice and time spent at bedside. I cannot find it now but I cited it before in previous topics.

    My experience is that there is two-tier attitude to new grad NPs. Some employers want them as fresh and unspoiled as possible. Others, frequently in specialties, want to see related experience in CV. But in any case, love or hate it, bedside experience is not necessary.

    IMHO, academically strong students should be streamlined into graduate schools. If I could turn time back and do it all again, I would never spend a day at bedside. Only one positive I gained by that was graduating with zero debt. The rest was totally negative.
  8. by   EDAPRN1215
    It was both interesting and revealing to read all the comments generated by this comment. As an acute/critical/trauma nurse of 25 years and now an ED APRN, I feel very strongly about this particular topic. However, it would be foolish and naive of me to think that my opinion will change anything. So, what I will say is that the NP profession is moving in the wrong direction.
    We have thousands of entry level nurses completing nursing school and then going on in their respective programs to finish a DNP with absolutely NO clinical experience. These same nurses are then moving into the workforce of the nurse practitioner to assume primary provider roles. We are asking for more autonomy and the ability to practice to our full scope of learned practice. Very, very frightening.

    I have worked with the experienced RN NP and the entry level RN NP. It is not the RN experience that solely sets apart these NP's as new providers. I believe it is many factors such as willingness to learn and be taught or "molded", recognizing limitations, knowing when to ask questions, really understanding the NP vs. the MD role, the type of NP program attended and critical thinking skills. These are just a few of the many factors.

    I am saddened and disheartened by the direction we are moving in as a profession but I am only one voice in a sea of many. I love what I do and consider it a privilege to take care of my patients. I
  9. by   FullGlass
    Quote from BCgradnurse
    Keep in mind that Susie2310 is not a NP, and so really has no personal, experiential knowledge of how or if RN experience is critical to the role of NP. She has never worked in that role. She has an opinion, which she is absolutely entitled to.

    I haven't worked as a RN other than clinicals, but have worked in the role of PCP and specialty provider, and can say that not having that experience hasn't held me back. It never stopped me from getting a job or providing excellent care to my patients. I use very little of what I used in my RN program as a NP. Might RN experience have added something to my practice? Perhaps, but not having it was not detrimental.

    FWIW-Many patients in my practice prefer to see me over the MD. Most are happy with either of us. Both the MD and I are cool with that.
    Quote from EDAPRN1215
    It was both interesting and revealing to read all the comments generated by this comment. As an acute/critical/trauma nurse of 25 years and now an ED APRN, I feel very strongly about this particular topic. However, it would be foolish and naive of me to think that my opinion will change anything. So, what I will say is that the NP profession is moving in the wrong direction.
    We have thousands of entry level nurses completing nursing school and then going on in their respective programs to finish a DNP with absolutely NO clinical experience. These same nurses are then moving into the workforce of the nurse practitioner to assume primary provider roles. We are asking for more autonomy and the ability to practice to our full scope of learned practice. Very, very frightening.

    I have worked with the experienced RN NP and the entry level RN NP. It is not the RN experience that solely sets apart these NP's as new providers. I believe it is many factors such as willingness to learn and be taught or "molded", recognizing limitations, knowing when to ask questions, really understanding the NP vs. the MD role, the type of NP program attended and critical thinking skills. These are just a few of the many factors.

    I am saddened and disheartened by the direction we are moving in as a profession but I am only one voice in a sea of many. I love what I do and consider it a privilege to take care of my patients. I
    I agree with your post. Just want to point out that all acute care NP programs I have seen do require 1 to 2 years of RN experience as an admission prerequisite, and I agree with that. In addition, many acute care NP jobs require RN experience. My post was about primary care, not acute care. There is no evidence that prior RN experience results in better primary care NPs.
  10. by   KatieMI
    Quote from EDAPRN1215

    I am saddened and disheartened by the direction we are moving in as a profession but I am only one voice in a sea of many.
    If you do something to exterminate the current culture of antiintellectualism and lateral violence toward new grads where you work, then you will help to eliminate one of the main factors which pushes our profession wrong direction.
  11. by   Dodongo
    Not all programs require it. I've seen a couple ACNP programs that don't require it.
    Last edit by Dodongo on Dec 30, '17 : Reason: Mistake
  12. by   Oldmahubbard
    I almost hate to agree, but I have to. As an RN for 13 years who then became an NP, I can't imagine how nursing experience directly effects one's ability to provide primary care. They are two quite different animals, with very little overlap.

    Psychiatry is different. I can't imagine starting my first Psych NP job and only having school clinicals under my belt. Ludicrous. There are too many pitfalls, gray areas, judgement calls, drug and disability seekers, and malingerers. One rarely receives previous records or good collateral information. When you do receive records, they are, often as not, inaccurate and incomplete. I cannot tell you how often intellectually disabled people are diagnosed as schizophrenic. The person will come to your office and give their version of a story. You will have 15 minutes to ferret out the truth. Otherwise you will just be handing out drugs without having the slightest idea what you are doing, but if you order benzodiazepenes and Adderall , you'll be popular.

    There was a major lawsuit against a top 10 university a few years back. A male student had done well enough in high school to gain admission to such an elite place, but had never been diagnosed with ADHD as a child. When he got to school, he suddenly was a small fish in a big pond, so he went to the Health Center and got a prescription from an NP for Adderall. It was easy to obtain, in most places you only have to rattle off the symptoms, which of course are found on the Internet. A couple of months later, that didn't seem to be enough, so Wellbutrin, a stimulating antidepressant was added without any apparent investigation into the causes of the problem. Perhaps the young man needed counseling to adjust his expectations. That wasn't enough, so Prozac was added on top of it. The young man ended up committing suicide.
    Yes there are many unanswered questions here. Did he have an underlying depression? Was the competition of such a school too stressful? Did the prescription of three stimulating drugs have anything to do with his suicide? His parents sued the school. The NP didn't lose her license but no longer works there. They investigated her supervising or collaborative physician and found they were in compliance with state guidelines.
    I have had patients die directly from the effects of drugs, so I have some idea of what it feels like, but the treatment I prescribed was completely appropriate. Was hers? I very much doubt it.
  13. by   EDAPRN1215
    I should have been more clear in recent post with respect to programs not requiring experience. Yes, I am referring to the specialty NP areas and yes,there are programs that do require RN experience.

    Thank you for your comments. I welcome new grads and even though it was now almost 29 years ago, I remember what it felt like to be new. It is not the new grad I am worried about. It is the new NP who feels they already know it all and don't have a learning spirit. They have to be willing, open and approachable learners who can resist saying "I know". I can tell you these type of new NP's are hard to find. Thank you though for sharing your point of view!!

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