Can you be called "Doctor" with a PhD in Nursing?

Specialties NP

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This has me curious. I would imagine you could.

Why do you think the PharmD would be OK w/ it, and not offer clarfication...whereas the DNP would?

I experienced both the PhD nurse and the Pharm D in the hospital. If the physician or patient refers to the Pharm D as Dr, no clarification was given. The same usually happens with the PAs. In my experience Nurses (PhD, NP) seem to always clarify that they are nurses not physicians. Even though numerous times patients still will refer to them as a "Dr" as soon as they leave the room. I don't have a good answer as to why, and my experience cannot be considered as normal everywhere, as it is only my experience.

I must say i have never heard of the 'clinical doctorate' concept

I can't believe half of this. An MD is better than a DO, a PhD is better than an MD, a DNP is equal to an MD, so is a DO below an RN, and a PhD above a DNP?

I'm sorry to say, that depending on what your graduate degree is in, it may or may not be more intellectually stimulating than ____. Have you handled the basic sciences of medical school? Have these "my MD is inferior to your PhD" handled the science-oriented graduate work? Have you? Did these PhD seekers attend the program in order to apply their science in a clinical field?

And lastly, where do you believe this is all going?

Specializes in Nursing Professional Development.
I can't believe half of this. An MD is better than a DO, a PhD is better than an MD, a DNP is equal to an MD, so is a DO below an RN, and a PhD above a DNP?

I'm sorry to say, that depending on what your graduate degree is in, it may or may not be more intellectually stimulating than ____. Have you handled the basic sciences of medical school? Have these "my MD is inferior to your PhD" handled the science-oriented graduate work? Have you? Did these PhD seekers attend the program in order to apply their science in a clinical field?

And lastly, where do you believe this is all going?

Initially, I was not going to reply to this post -- wanting to let the thread die a natural death. However, the poster is a new member, asking a legitimate question in a reasonable way. So .... personally ...

1. I hope that eventually the different academic disciplines will clarify their programs and come to a concensus about the criteria for the various degrees they offer. That will reduce the confusion and game-playing that so often goes on now.

2. I would like nursing to come to establish 2 doctoral level degrees. The traditional PhD focusing on knowledge development (i.e. research and theory) and a practice degree (DNS? DNP? whatever) that focuses on advanced clinical practice and/or the application of knowledge. Some disciplines have clearly done this and I applaud their good sense.

3. I hope that the establishment of similar (but not necessarily identical) academic standards for doctoral education would lead to an improvement in the relationships between the different disciplines and degree holders. We could all treat each other as equals -- each respecting the expertise and accomplishments of one another.

And ... BTW Pose ... the "hard sciences" are no more difficult to master than the social sciences, the humanities, or the arts. They are just different. The flexibility they require and ability to work with ambiguity make them very difficult to grasp and to work with. That's why so many people "do them badly." The fact that some people do them badly does not make those who become experts in them any less worthy of respect any more than the fact that some people are bad at the hard sciences make truly expert scientists less worthy of respect.

llg

If a professor of Middle Easern studies, Art, Music , English or (some other profession) walked into a hospital (to visit a family member or seek treatment) and he/she had the opportunity to greet a patient on the elevator or in the cafeteria, I am sure if as that patient started asking medical advice the Phd. would correct them.

If the Phd was walking down the halls of the hospital, clinic or some other medical setting and someone yelled out, "WE NEED A DOCTOR IN HERE!" I am sure they would know that person was not referring to them.

Patients and the general public are not as clueless as we like to think.

Lets hope the years it took to get that Phd gave them time to recognise their educational scope and develop a little common sense.

i completely agree about the "not more difficult, just different" statement. i suck horribly in my english classes. and i believe that statement holds true elsewhere in this "debate." i think the biggest problem comes from the fact that many physicians or other clinicians are afraid of others attempting to "take over" their line of work. if it was openly considered the development of a completely different discipline, i feel there would be a lower level of apprehension. if you aren't trying to be medical/osteopathic physicians, but rather developing your own methods of treating your* patients, why should anyone stop you?

* your patients, as in, not attempting to lobby for patients currently seeing a physician, or whoever. it would be a tragedy on both ends if someone were to try creating bad press against physicians, or claim to be superior in any nature. much the same if physicians attempted to stop patients from seeing another clinician.

and lastly: how do you believe supply & demand factors into it? by this, i want to know how you feel the increased level of authority to advanced practice nurses, psychologists, optometrists, chiropractors,..., will effect the long-term supply and demand--that is--business, for physicians? what is your projection for physicians, and nurses in terms of salary, demand, and lifestyle?

thank you for the honest and calm answers. i appreciate your thoughts on the matter, as much as i do the physicians, medical students, and pre-meds i regularly speak with.

Specializes in Nursing Professional Development.
]and lastly: how do you believe supply & demand factors into it? by this, i want to know how you feel the increased level of authority to advanced practice nurses, psychologists, optometrists, chiropractors,..., will effect the long-term supply and demand--that is--business, for physicians? what is your projection for physicians, and nurses in terms of salary, demand, and lifestyle?

thank you for the honest and calm answers. i appreciate your thoughts on the matter, as much as i do the physicians, medical students, and pre-meds i regularly speak with.

i don't practice as a "physician extender" and therefore have not given as much thought to the issues posed (pun intended) by your question as i probably should have to give a great answer. i have focused on the provision of "traditional" nursing care in my career as i went from staff nurse to cns to faculty member to staff development educator/program coordinator.

however ... i am usually willing to play with ideas on this website, so here are a few thoughts.

professions, disciplines, and job roles have been evolving throughout history. things were very different years ago. being a physician was not very well respected in the 18th and 19th centuries and physicians were not always educated at the university level (much less the graduate level). that changed in the late 19th century and with the publication of the flexner report in the early 20th century, physician's had established themselves as the most educated health professionals requiring the most extensive education.

it's important to note that, while the move to improve medical education was in the public's best interest ...it was also a shrewd political move by physician leaders to give themselves political power. it did not come from god and it is not necessarily inherit in the physician's role to be dominant over other health care providers. it was a smart move on the part of physicians to increase their power that also improved health care for the public.

one question facing the society today is how to deal with the fact that other disciplines are also now being educated at the doctoral level. the physicians' claim to being the best-educated health care provider is not as strong as it once was. also, many physicians do not want to provide all of the "medical" care that society needs. if only physicians are allowed to perform certain functions, millions of people would not have decent care -- because physicians don't want to do all that is required by society. thus, a renegotiation of roles is now underway as all of the disciplines evolve. that's the natural course of events and is to be expected.

the effects of that evolution and renegotiation is what we are seeing in some of the issues talked about in this thread. some people are better able to handle these evolutionary developments than others. some people cling to old roles and old stereotypes more tightly than others.

i don't know how it is all going to end up ... but i don't think you can put the toothpaste back in the tube. the process of evolution is going to continue -- and i suspect there will be some individual "winners and losers" along the way.

llg

*edit*

Dupe post.

-t

If you are in a healthcare environemnt, the ONLY people who can be called doctors are MDs or DOs. Yes, pharmacists, physical therapists have doctorates to, but its inappropriate to refer to them as doctors when the general public is present.

I'm going to disagree. A clinical psychologist is the highest trained person in the field of psychology, and they deserve the title. In a hospital setting psychologists CAN, ARE, and SHOULD be called doctor. They aren't saying, "I am a physician". Typically it is, "Hello, I am Dr. Smith, your neuropsychologist", etc.

-t

Only there is a profession called psychiatry. They are physicians. A hospital is a place where medicine is practiced. Thus, if it is under the realm of psychiatric medicine in a hospital, a psychologist should not be referred to as Doctor. Otherwise, sure...Why not?

Yes I understand that PhD requires adding new knowledge to the filed.

But thats really not that hard.

All you have to do is get a couple of publications in low tier journals and the PhD is yours.

If you got East Texas State University and get a PhD there, all you need to do is publish a very low quality paper in a third tier journal. You do know that there are high school students that have been published in these journals right? Its not that hard.

Now if you are talking about a PhD at MIT, Johns Hopkins, or Harvard, thats a different story. There they hold you to a very high standard and they want 5 or 6 top notch publications in journals like Nature, Science, or Cell. Totally different animal

You are poorly informed.

Requirements vary by the type of program, but your description is downright insulting to PhDs. There are reasons why so few people make it through a PhD program (compared to other grad degrees)....I mean, it is just publishing in a couple crappy journals, right?

Your classification is also completely off base. For instance, a PhD in clinical psych from Harvard (while a great institution of higher learner)....not exactly top tier in something like clinical psych, I think they actually lost their APA-accreditation a few years back....whoops.

Feel free to share your opinions, but don't be surprised if informed people don't take it seriously. I guess it is time to go get my next publication ready for NATURE!!!

-t

Only there is a profession called psychiatry. They are physicians. A hospital is a place where medicine is practiced. Thus, if it is under the realm of psychiatric medicine in a hospital, a psychologist should not be referred to as Doctor. Otherwise, sure...Why not?

They both should be called doctors. A psychiatrist doesn't do everything a psychologist does in that setting. For instance, neuro assessment is handled by a neuropsychologist, not a psychiatrist. A neurologist also does testing, but different types.

-t

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