Advice on Dealing With Condescending Nurses Need

[MotherRN]

So, I'm a new grad, working my first job. I've been solo about two weeks now. I am working with another new grad in her mid-twenties who has been at the facility for about four months now. This is the first job for both of us. We are both RN's (graduated together, actually). I take the shift from her for the evening several times a week.

My problem is this nurse (who is young enough to be my daughter) is soooooo condescending when she speaks to me! I am floored by the snotty way she addresses me. I have actual had her question me as to whether or not I really did do certain procedures that I documented as done! (Ask me once, you're assessing; Ask me the same question twice, you're accusing!) Yes, it was an accusation. I was vindicated by lab work later that proved I had done what I said I had.

Let me add, I work in a 'drama free zone' per the DON so getting into a confrontation would likely cost me my job.

So, any advice? It's bad enough she's so condescending, but given the age difference, it's really disrespectful as well!

I'd like to add that in our final class, I passed with 84 and 94 on the two tests. My former classmate informed me she failed the class by a point and had to write letters all the way up the chain of command to beg to be passed (and succeeded). I share this info to show that I went out of my way to prepare myself while in school. I am in no way incompetent. I'm just new on the job.

Thanks for the input in advance!

[Crazed]

Argh. Again I do not understand why people don't say things like, "I feel what you said was a little rude," when bad behavior is presented to them. Why are people so afraid to stand up for themselves? You're not going to get fired if you use I statements and handle the situation with tact. By your own admission you're older than she is, therefore you should have years of experience in diffusing a situation tactfully.

I'll tell you that one of nurses that pushed me over the edge into nursing told me, "Crazed you'll have less problem in nursing school because older adults know how to study." I always see the younger girls who are struggling as girls who need some redirection on how they are addressing their study plans so I (wait for it) help them. I know it sounds crazy as one day they'll be my competition but to be honest I never view someone who obviously wants to pass but is struggling with the beautiful world of NCLEX (you know, the one where we have unlimited supplies, time, and we will never be understaffed) as lazy or not wanting it as much as I do.

Now what bothers me is when younger students speak disrespectfully about patients afterwards like, "Oh that woman really smells," or "You could tell they were total hillbillies." Of course this could have something to do with a soft-spot for smelly hillbillies but you get my point.

The next time she's rude to you simply say, "I feel when you question/say/look at/do/insinuate [insert item of ire here] that it is kind of rude," or try, "Is everything okay? You seem a little on edge and irritated." Sometimes we have to refocus behavior.

[Guest343211]

Woweee Samadams8!! I just read your rather lengthy, but delightfully right on the button post, my head is reeling. Your insight is profound, your words perfectly put together and overall you just generally kick A** my friend.

Hey thanks hindsight. I don't think non-nursing people get why the harassing, office politics stuff is like a 100% worse in hospital clinical environments than in, well, an office. Sure, it's bad enough there, but in the clinical areas, you are often dealing with so many other priority 1 pressures--you know like trying to keep people alive and provide optimal outcomes, and maintain quality care and maintain very HIGH safety standards--all in very litigious environments!

You have to work and just go through the general beat up of very demanding (physically, mentally, psychologically, emotionally) clinical care and high expectations over a number of years--especially doing it full-time. Other people don't understand that in an added on, needlessly and overly stressed moment, you could miss something that sends a patient to swirling the bowl. This is why all of the harassment and abuse in nursing is so wrong! It can definitely affect performance and outcomes for patients!

This is why nurses need to stand against this kind of thing. Problem is, there times and places where if you do this, while it is the right thing to do, you will be the sacrificial lamb.

I think a lot more nurses need to be willing to face the potential of becoming sacrificial lambs until the whole of nursing gets it act together about tolerating abuse. It's hard, b/c who wants to step up on that level and take one for the team--all of nursing?

The OP may be overly sensitive, or she/he may be the victim of toxic behavior seen too often in this field.

Either way the harassed nurse has to be careful in how he or she deal with harassment and abuse. For even if you stand up against it in a forthright, but respectful manner, you CAN get screwed.

So should you take the abuse? Avoid it? Well, in referring to my previous response here, you have to kind of use something like the good ole nursing process and figure it out--that is, if you want to try to hold on to the position.

OTOH, if more nurses had back-up jobs, they would feel more confident about standing up to this kind of thing. !!!!!

When "they" (admins or troublesome people) know you have bills to pay and mouths to feed, they can tend to take advantage of you or your good nature.

So, I say, never be in a position where, even if you must carefully do so for your overall career goals, that you cannot leave a place. Never be in a position where they have you over a barrel. If we think about it, this is how women in general, at least historically, have been stuck in abusive situations and relationships. Worthy of some thought.

Look, in general, at the nurses that are male for example. They seem to often limit their amount of vulnerability and/or learn how to play the game in nursing exceeding well. The really great ones doing it without compromising their integrity or without becoming backstabbing jerks. Women in nursing do this too, but, just anecdotally, it seems somehow easier for men as nurses, in general, to limit their vulnerability in their nursing roles and positions.

It's time that nurses stop allowing themselves to be doormats. You just have to see about doing this in such a way where it will not sabbotage your career and future. Also, you have to have another means of providing for yourself financially, particularly in this market. I have found, again, only anecdotally and experientially, that men in nursing are more likely to have back-up jobs--means of making an income. It's like they naturally understand that this puts them in a better position of strength and autonomy.

This is not as easily seen in 20 something, fresh, female BSNs.

See a lot of the new grads, well, hospitals may tend to want them more (depends on the hospitals and areas--and if they have BSN), b/c they are new and thus more vulnerable--and, they are cheaper than experienced nurses. But I say, teach new grads early to get back-up jobs--who the heck cares if your dream is NICU or whatever, and you get a per diem job in homecare? DO it, so you have a back-up--at least financially and in terms of references!

Always have a back-up plan.

If there was any field that requires having a back-up plan in place, it is most definitely nursing. Also, nurses might tend to be more supportive of each other--and less at odds with each other--if they all had back-up plans.

Obviously, hindsight, you can see that I feel very strongly about this.

[Guest343211]

Argh. Again I do not understand why people don't say things like, "I feel what you said was a little rude," when bad behavior is presented to them. Why are people so afraid to stand up for themselves? You're not going to get fired if you use I statements and handle the situation with tact. , "I feel when you question/say/look at/do/insinuate [insert item of ire here] that it is kind of rude," or try, "Is everything okay? You seem a little on edge and irritated." Sometimes we have to refocus behavior.

Patently untrue. How long have you been in practice? Seriously, it's hard to work in nursing and not learn about the weeding out process! This is especially true in more specialized areas, but it can occur anywhere.

You have to be very smart and careful in how you deal with people anymore. Sure, you may get away with it, but first, it can be harder to do so when you are new at a institution or unit. You have to assess the game and the players. Even being respectfully forthright can blow up in your face. I have seen more weeding out in nursing than I have time to discuss here.

And, unless you are under union contract or independent contract, yes, you can get fired for ANY darn reason or NO reason at all.

Study at-will-employment. Most hospitals and places work by way of At-Will. What they often do is find something pretextual to have in a file somewhere, just in case the person weeded out wants to make a legal case, but technically, AW employers do NOT need a reason to dismiss. This is why the whole likeability thing is as unfortunately PREDOMINATE as it is in nursing.

If you don't think you will have to be careful about whose feathers you ruffle--even in the most appropriate or nicest possible way--please, I urge you to think again.

Worse than weeding is when nurses get branded or blackballed for idiotic reasons--and it can take on all kinds of forms.

Crazed, I know what you mean, but I also know what the dynamics are like. You have to be careful, regardless of how things are worded.

[Been there,done that, ASN, RN]

After many confrontations at the job I've been at 6 years I have learned that when you get to know and work with people for years you discover which ones will rub you the wrong way. C can pass you and still get you a job in nursing. I am a straight A student so far. But guess what? The person with a C will still make it through a program. That is just the honest truth. As they say in all fields C's get degrees.

As far as working with her I'd simply check the behavior. She may not know that you feel that way. She may treat all new people that way. She may talk to people like that because she wants to be confident the patient has been helped. Have a talk with her privately and express that you feel that you are just as competent as she and you don't want to be asked did you do something that you charted you did. Because that will be like calling me a liar. And I don't appreciate that. Often people do not know they are slighting you if this is how they treat all.

And you can do as my mother says and kill her with kindness.

My mother also taught me "kill 'em with kindness". My mother was never a nurse.

That does not ... and will NEVER apply to nursing.

You will be viewed as weak... and you will lose ANY peer confrontations with THAT approach.

[MotherRN]

Wow! Everybody has a lot to say on this subject! Must have hit a nerve! Thank you to those of you who were constructive with your input. To the others, well...insult to injury...and par for the course in nursing! lol

As for my school grades, I mentioned that here only to show that I had taken my courses seriously and not just barely passed by. My co-worker in the post does not know my grades. I don't think it is polite when someone confides in you that they had a hard time with something to turn around and say, "Oh? I aced it." That's just rude. Given our age difference, we were not friends in school either. She was one of 100 + in my class. Doubt she knew my name until we started to work together (I didn't know hers).

I think that her attitude has to do with her upbringing. I think she's the baby of the family (and a spoiled one at that!). My chosen method of dealing with her at present has been to deal with her as little as possible and when I do, I am matter of fact and to the point. I think she is getting the message. If I have a question as a newcomer, I don't ask it of her. And once report is over, I am out of there! I find something to do elsewhere (because she seems to continue to linger at the nurses station for up to 4+ hours at times in the paperwork that I now need access to! One shift backing into the other is not making things any easier!)

As I continue to do my job and not ask her input on how to do it, she seems to be getting the message that I can do this job just as she is doing it.

[MotherRN]

On the issue of grades...maybe 'C's get the degrees'...but wouldn't you rather have a nurse (or MD) who mastered that material and didn't just pass by the skin of their teeth??? It's just plain logical to want to be as prepared as possible.

Maybe so don't test well, but I bet there are far more who just don't bother to prepare well.

[Guest343211]

And once report is over, I am out of there! I find something to do elsewhere (because she seems to continue to linger at the nurses station for up to 4+ hours at times in the paperwork that I now need access to! One shift backing into the other is not making things any easier!)

Oh wow, I really hate when people do that. It soooo sucks. Um, 4 hours seems huge, what the?

OK, I find that that's something, if done regularly, that impairs my ability to be productive, careful, and legally responsible as a nurse. If it is her regular behavior, I would try to dispassionately make my case for why it is legally and productively important for me to now have custody of the necessary paperwork--like the flow sheet. In an intensive care unit, you are recording these infusions on no less than an hourly basis along with VSS and other intensely monitored information. This is a real issue. So, I don't remember where you said you worked, but If a carefully worded statement about your need to use the paperwork didn't get through her head, well, then I would have to intelligently formulate my concerns, in writing and in person, to the manager and follow the chain of command if necessary.

How in the world are you supposed to get the required work done, if you don't have access to the paperwork? I mean, in the units, residents, fellows, attendings, consulting docs, as well as other folks are looking at the trends and data for every hour (or sooner) over 24 hours. This is important is such a setting.

What the heck is this nurse doing?

[metal_m0nk, BSN, RN]

As for my school grades, I mentioned that here only to show that I had taken my courses seriously and not just barely passed by. My co-worker in the post does not know my grades. I don't think it is polite when someone confides in you that they had a hard time with something to turn around and say, "Oh? I aced it." That's just rude. Given our age difference, we were not friends in school either. She was one of 100 + in my class. Doubt she knew my name until we started to work together (I didn't know hers).

You could have mentioned your success without disparaging her and it would have sufficiently illustrated the point. That's the difference. If she is unaware of your success, yet you are so keenly aware of her lack thereof, perhaps you are the one with the chip on your shoulder and not her. Just saying. The way you chose to present the information sheds a certain light on your situation that makes me much less apt to consider you blameless.

[SweetPEI]

You could have mentioned your success without disparaging her and it would have sufficiently illustrated the point. That's the difference. If she is unaware of your success, yet you are so keenly aware of her lack thereof, perhaps you are the one with the chip on your shoulder and not her. Just saying. The way you chose to present the information sheds a certain light on your situation that makes me much less apt to consider you blameless.

^ agreed

[HollywoodDiva]

No confrontation is necessary but you do need to call her out on her behavior and establish professional boundaries.

[Guest343211]

No confrontation is necessary but you do need to call her out on her behavior and establish professional boundaries.

Problem is that some folks still call that "being confrontational."

I agree that it may not be, but it can and has been spun that way, and then the perception becomes that the nurse is "confrontational." It's ridiculous, but it's interpretation and how it can be presented.

[jadelpn, LPN, EMT-B]

How do you know her grades/lack thereof if you did not know her name until you worked together? How do you know so much personal information about her if you are having such a hard time with her? How do you know that she hangs at the nurses station 4 hours after her shift if you are "out of there"? And quite frankly, why do you care? Seems like for a "drama free zone" there's a whole lotta drama going on. As I have said before in other posts, this is not junior high. And meaning to or not, you have seemingly got a number of issues with this co-worker, that have a whole lot more to do with her and her personal life and personality than how she communicates with you.