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Gay Nurses... help!



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No. 160
Old May 21, 2009, 08:42 AM

Default Re: Gay Nurses... help!
Originally Posted by beejaycee View Post
So if someone is gay but abstains from sex, then that person is no longer gay? You've obviously thought about this and I respectfully don't want to seem dismissive but I find your perception of what it is to be gay as narrow as you find the average person's understanding of what it means to be an alcoholic. I personally can't define either to my own satisfaction but I think you've made some leaps in your reasoning.
You're arguing semantics...

If you want to say that being gay is a completely relevant concept then fine, I'm down with that. It is what it is to who it is I suppose. You pitch your own tent and danged if I care what you want to call it. Personally, I think civil unions should apply to everyone and the government should just get out of the "marriage" business altogether but the folks who are the first to argue for the separation of church and state are the folks that argue that marriage (strictly a religious concept) is a civil right...
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No. 161
from beejaycee
Old May 21, 2009, 09:07 AM

Default Re: Gay Nurses... help!
Originally Posted by carpediem_1271 View Post
You're arguing semantics...

If you want to say that being gay is a completely relevant concept then fine, I'm down with that. It is what it is to who it is I suppose. You pitch your own tent and danged if I care what you want to call it. Personally, I think civil unions should apply to everyone and the government should just get out of the "marriage" business altogether but the folks who are the first to argue for the separation of church and state are the folks that argue that marriage (strictly a religious concept) is a civil right...
I don't think that it is merely a matter of labels. It is a complex issue (as are most, when you get right down to it) and it is my opinion that it is more than a matter of who is sleeping with whom and who is putting what where. Too many people seek to reduce the matter of the emotional, spiritual, and financial commitments of a relationship to simple "semantics".

If I understand you correctly, you are positing that marriage is strictly a religious concept. So are you saying that being married by a priest or minister carries NO state sanctioned legal rights, responsibilities, or obligations? It is hard to accept the argument of separation of church and state or marriage being solely a religious concept when it is entrenched in the legal code of all 50 states. Personally, I like the way it is done in some countries where if you want to get married in a religious institution, great, but you still need to have it sanctioned by the state in a separate process to have it carry any legal weight. But I'm an 'equality for everyone' kind of guy.

As with everything I write, this is just my opinion, and I take full responsibility for it (and the typos). Boy, if this thread was off track before, I'm sure I have now completely run it into the ditch! (Oh, and I think you and I agree on much more than we disagree.)
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No. 162
Old May 21, 2009, 09:41 AM

Default Re: Gay Nurses... help!
Originally Posted by beejaycee View Post
If I understand you correctly, you are positing that marriage is strictly a religious concept. So are you saying that being married by a priest or minister carries NO state sanctioned legal rights, responsibilities, or obligations? It is hard to accept the argument of separation of church and state or marriage being solely a religious concept when it is entrenched in the legal code of all 50 states. Personally, I like the way it is done in some countries where if you want to get married in a religious institution, great, but you still need to have it sanctioned by the state in a separate process to have it carry any legal weight. But I'm an 'equality for everyone' kind of guy.

Marriage was originally strictly a religious concept. You really can't argue otherwise. I'm saying that government doesn't belong in that concept. I'm also saying that we should have a uniform legal construct that allows for civil unions between anyone that wants a civil union and let religion have marriage back. I also think that government's role in those civil unions should be very limited but then again I'm a 'liberty for everyone' kind of guy

You're right, I think we do mostly agree...
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No. 163
from beejaycee
Old May 21, 2009, 11:22 AM

Default Re: Gay Nurses... help!
Weeeeeellllllll, I really CAN argue otherwise. It's my contrary nature! Of course I am mostly referring to the European roots of the institution of marriage as those roots are most familiar but it was a method of transferring title, authority, and property as much as anything else. Yes, it was sanctioned by the church (a church?) but women were considered little more than property throughout most of our history. Look at how many cultures (and religions) at one time considered women to be less than their husbands (and many still do). Many cultures also granted husbands the right to marry multiple women. How many cultures allowed women to do the same? Marriage has definitely evolved (monogamy? divorce? property rights?) and continues to do so. To paint it with broad strokes as the sole property of any religion or culture is not being fair or honest to its many roots.

It was fun beating this horse with you!
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No. 164
from Piggvomit
Old May 29, 2009, 04:51 AM

Default Re: Gay Nurses... help!
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No. 165
Old May 29, 2009, 06:07 AM

Default Re: Gay Nurses... help!
*gives horse one more good kick*

Originally Posted by carpediem_1271 View Post
Marriage was originally strictly a religious concept. You really can't argue otherwise.
if your kin keep raiding my livestock I'm going to kill one of them, you'll be honor-bound to avenge him, and this annoying conflict will never end. this war has gone on long enough. I'll give you 3 goats if you'll engage your infant daughter to my 5 year old son. good? good. we're family, family doesn't steal from each other. the end.

marriage was a business transaction and a political stratagem millenia before the church got a hold of it. (and rather ambiguously at that: "It is better to marry than to burn." is not exactly a glowing recommendation.) the vast majority of people never actually married at all, ceremonies and the use of a place of worship were too expensive. they just shacked up and commitment was implied.
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