Accelerated programs...expensive or cheap? - page 4

Okay, I realize that none of the programs are cheap but I was accepted to John's Hopkins last year and deffered it for a year. I am a 45 yo male that is switching careers. I am wondering if it is... Read More

  1. Visit  UVA Grad Nursing profile page
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    Direct Entry MSN programs can vary from school to school. At some programs one completes the BSN requirements first, and then takes the advanced specialty classes. At others (including the MECN program at UCLA, the GEM program at Rush, the CNL program at Maryland, and the DE-MSN program at Virginia), there are distinct curricula for the DE students that are totally different than for the BSN students (no overlap of courses at all). These programs are generally 18-24 months long. These programs do not prepare people to sit for Advanced Practice certification (they prepare students along the Clinical Nurse Leader model).

    At UVa, we admit most of our BSN students directly from high school; we have a 4-year BSN program with nursing classes all four years. Last year we had 560 applications from high school seniors for 66 spaces in the First Year class. Students with undergraduate degrees already can only apply to our DE-MSN program (which had 142 applications for 20 spaces for the entering 2011 cohort). Our DE-MSN program is 24 months long.
  2. Visit  Jevell - AMPNN profile page
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    Quote from UVA Grad Nursing
    Direct Entry MSN programs can vary from school to school. At some programs one completes the BSN requirements first, and then takes the advanced specialty classes. At others (including the MECN program at UCLA, the GEM program at Rush, the CNL program at Maryland, and the DE-MSN program at Virginia), there are distinct curricula for the DE students that are totally different than for the BSN students (no overlap of courses at all). These programs are generally 18-24 months long. These programs do not prepare people to sit for Advanced Practice certification (they prepare students along the Clinical Nurse Leader model).

    At UVa, we admit most of our BSN students directly from high school; we have a 4-year BSN program with nursing classes all four years. Last year we had 560 applications from high school seniors for 66 spaces in the First Year class. Students with undergraduate degrees already can only apply to our DE-MSN program (which had 142 applications for 20 spaces for the entering 2011 cohort). Our DE-MSN program is 24 months long.
    Hello UVA Grad Nursing!

    I thought this post was talking strictly about the ACCELERATED BSN-RN which means you already have your bachelors and you want to switch careers. As far as high schoolers going into nursing, of course they don't take the same courses as some who has already had general education/liberal arts classes & bachelors. oh, and there is no such thing as all nursing classes at an accredited school. ALL COLLEGE BACHELOR PROGRAMS ARE REQUIRED TO INCLUDE GENERAL EDUCATION/LIBERAL ART CLASSES (including engineering, nursing, pharmacy, etc)

    The purpose of the accelerated BSN is to obtain the RN lic./pass NCLEX...thats it. The reason some schools offer the Generic MSN (in which you will complete the RN req's/pass NCLEX) and then have a year worth of Nurse Leader/ Health Care Administration courses is because of financial aid reasons (for the student mostly). You are eligible for up to $138,000 in federal (low interest) loans which are guaranteed as a graduate student.

    As a second degree bachelors student, you don't qualify for most of the aid you got the first time around. Additionally, you have used up a good amount of your loan eligiblity on your first bachelors. Also, you are max'd out at $56K for undergraduate studies in regards to federal loans. Nursing programs (like mine) offer the accelerated BSN portion only or accelerated BSN/MSN joint degrees. The BSN portion is usually funded w/ private bank loans which are very hard to get in this economy. But its a better option for me because after I pass the NCLEX/RN lic, I can work as an RN while completing the MSN portion which save a lot of time and future earning potential. Additionally, most employers have tuition reimburment to pay for a lot of the tuition while in the MSN portion.

    There are pros/cons to both nursing school structures!!!!
    Last edit by Jevell - AMPNN on Dec 16, '10
  3. Visit  pexx84 profile page
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    Quote from Jevell - AMPNN
    So, how can the BSN program at your school be more competitive than the Direct Entry MSN? Schools of Nursing have more spot for BSN students because there are more instructors qualified to teach them and the BSN require less resources from the school and healthcare facilities associated with programs (As opposed to both BSN & MSN components). The people I know who applied to nursing schools that offered the Direct Entry Program (and myself) were told if they were not selected for the limited spots they had for the Direct Entry MSN program that they would be offer the accelerated BSN. The schools included in my "research": Yale, Columbia, University of Rochester, and NYU.
    Hi Jevell. I didn't intend to offend. I just was offering that in my area (Boston) last year, if you're just going by the numbers, it appeared easier to get into one of the advanced practice Direct Entry programs than an accelerated BSN program. This is no reflection on the students enrolled in either type of program. The Direct Entry programs here varied significantly, with some Direct Entry programs offering a BSN enroute to an MSN, while others didn't. Off the top of my head, Simmons fell in this category. My armchair theory is that the economy prompted the blizzard of accelerated program applications, with more career changers able to take 1.5 years off from work, than 3 years.
  4. Visit  PMFB-RN profile page
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    Quote from pexx84
    I'm not aware of any/many 24 months or less Direct Entry Masters programs.
    *** Here is the one I am most familiar with as there are a bunch of grads from this program working at my hospital.
    http://www.nursing.umn.edu/MN/home.html
  5. Visit  PMFB-RN profile page
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    Quote from Jevell - AMPNN
    oh, and there is no such thing as all nursing classes at an accredited school. ALL COLLEGE BACHELOR PROGRAMS ARE REQUIRED TO INCLUDE GENERAL EDUCATION/LIBERAL ART CLASSES
    *** First nobody has ever said in this discussion that some school had all nursing classes. Second that was very, very condescending.
  6. Visit  pexx84 profile page
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    Quote from PMFB-RN
    *** Here is the one I am most familiar with as there are a bunch of grads from this program working at my hospital.
    I'm wrong; you're right!

    Why the heck am I sweating blood in a 16 month accelerated BSN program then?! I need to stop reading this forum.
    Last edit by pexx84 on Dec 17, '10 : Reason: didn't quote
  7. Visit  Jevell - AMPNN profile page
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    Quote from PMFB-RN
    *** First nobody has ever said in this discussion that some school had all nursing classes. Second that was very, very condescending.

    Didn't mean to offend anyone but I was responding to pexx84's comment, "At UVa, we admit most of our BSN students directly from high school; we have a 4-year BSN program with nursing classes all four years." PMFB-RN, did you even read the posts? Or did you just jump in the middle of a conversation without reading? Comments like yours don't really add value and turn discussions into arguments on posts here. Pexx84, I hope you know there were no foul intentions by my remarks.
  8. Visit  PMFB-RN profile page
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    Quote from jevell - ampnn
    didn't mean to offend anyone but i was responding to pexx84's comment, "at uva, we admit most of our bsn students directly from high school; we have a 4-year bsn program with nursing classes all four years." pmfb-rn, did you even read the posts? or did you just jump in the middle of a conversation without reading? comments like yours don't really add value and turn discussions into arguments on posts here. pexx84, i hope you know there were no foul intentions by my remarks.
    *** i think you failed to read pexx84's post and was pointing out your mistake and condescending manner. here is what i was replying to. you wrote:

    "oh, and there is no such thing as all nursing classes at an accredited school. all college bachelor programs are required to include general education/liberal art classes"

    pexx84 clearly said that there were nursing classes all four years, not that every class was a nursing class. for you to point out to a college educated person that a bachelors program requires general education and liberal arts classes is condescending. she already knows that and did not claim there was such a program. you misunderstood her when she said "with nursing classes all four years". she was saying that there were nursing classes in each of the four years, not that all the classes were nursing only. condescending comments like your don't really add value to discussions. when you fail to correctly read others comments it can lead to arguments.
  9. Visit  abvincent1 profile page
    1
    You do not need a "name" to succeed. You need a bachelor degree to go on to a Master degree, not a bachelor degree from JHU or Yale, or the laundry list of other significantly over-priced options.

    I could pay the 64K out of pocket to attend JHU, but I saved the money to attend school by money making wise investments. Shoving 64K in to a program that will award me the same degree as multiple state schools at a 1/3 the cost certainly isn't a wise investment.

    I assure you, the top twenty percent at at state school will be regarded more highly than the bottom twenty percent at JHU. So unless you aren't interested in doing well, go with a much cheaper option. The NCLEX doesn't ask where you attended college, it cares that you pass...as will your employers.

    Ever asked a nurse caring for you where he/she attended school? In nursing, the name recognition is useless...in my opinion. Go with a cheaper option
    JoyNPikachu98 likes this.
  10. Visit  AutoRotate profile page
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    Quote from PMFB-RN
    *** I live in a rural area of Wisconsin. As a staff nurse in the SICU I make $87K and change with good benifits At my hospital new grads start at $64K. Cost of living here is very low as well.

    *** Of course but CRNAs are NOT NPs. Whole different kettel of fish.

    *** If I wanted to spend 8 years in college, plus spend at least a couple years getting experience I would expect to make a LOT, LOT more than $100K. Seems silly to me to spend all that time getting DNP. PA school is only two years (assume BS degree already) and CRNA school is 27 months. PAs who are not involved in surgery make about what NPs make, surgery PAs make much more.

    *** Well I respectfully disagree. I think it's a terrable deal. The cost of the school is minor, the real cost is in time. The DNP represent a significant increase in investment of time and money (cost, lost wages, etc) without an increase in pay. Maybe where you live it is different but the DNP prepared NPs at my medical center start at exactly the same pay as masters prepared NPs. The DNP prepared CRNA grads expected to start applying soon will not be starting at a higher wage.
    I think PA and CRNA school offer much better return on investment than the DNP NP does.
    Perhaps the people who are going for the NP want to do so for the increased responsibility and independence that comes with the title, or the future earning potential of the degree. I'll also go ahead and "respectfully" throw the BS flag on your hospital in rural WI offering new grads $64k.
  11. Visit  PMFB-RN profile page
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    Perhaps the people who are going for the NP want to do so for the increased responsibility and independence that comes with the title, or the future earning potential of the degree.
    *** There isn't any increased responsibiliety or independence or future earning potential for DNP NPs vs MSN NPs.

    I'll also go ahead and "respectfully" throw the BS flag on your hospital in rural WI offering new grads $64k.
    *** OK I am sure you know better than me.
  12. Visit  AutoRotate profile page
    0
    Quote from PMFB-RN
    *** There isn't any increased responsibiliety or independence or future earning potential for DNP NPs vs MSN NPs.
    "If I wanted to spend 8 years in college, plus spend at least a couple years getting experience I would expect to make a LOT, LOT more than $100K."
    This is the statement to which I was referring, not the MSN NP vs. DNP.

    As far as salary is concerned, I am just interested as to how you arrived at that number for new grads. A quick search online reveals that the average staff nurse (not new grad) in Milwaukee WI makes $63k. See here:
    Salary.com Salary Wizard- Do you know what you're worth?
    This site seems fairly accurate based upon what it says for my area. I'm not saying that you are misleading anyone; I'm saying that it's counterintuitive that at a rural hospital (fewer beds, lower acuity patients from lower level trauma certification, fewer surgeries, less revenue) they could afford to pay new grads more than the average staff nurse at a hospital in the largest city in the state.

  13. Visit  PMFB-RN profile page
    0

    "If I wanted to spend 8 years in college, plus spend at least a couple years getting experience I would expect to make a LOT, LOT more than $100K."
    This is the statement to which I was referring, not the MSN NP vs. DNP.
    *** But that statement was only made in relation to the DNP NP. 8 years in school plus a couple years experience isn't required for MNS NP.

    As far as salary is concerned, I am just interested as to how you arrived at that number for new grads. A quick search online reveals that the average staff nurse (not new grad) in Milwaukee WI makes $63k. See here:
    Salary.com Salary Wizard- Do you know what you're worth?
    This site seems fairly accurate based upon what it says for my area. I'm not saying that you are misleading anyone; I'm saying that it's counterintuitive that at a rural hospital (fewer beds, lower acuity patients from lower level trauma certification, fewer surgeries, less revenue) they could afford to pay new grads more than the average staff nurse at a hospital in the largest city in the state.
    *** Live in rural area, work in the city. I am rural, hopital isn't.

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