Nursing in the military

tedd · Jul 29, 2004

you could try the defence website www.defence.gov.au then select either army, navy or airforce then go to the careers link, but as I undertand the forces are phasing out having RNs, and train recruits as 'medics' and soldiers are trained in combat first aid, the base hospitals are staffed mostly by agancy staff. worth a try though.

Farkinott, RN · Jul 30, 2004

I have a collegue who is interested in going in to the military as a registered nurse. He doesn't have a computer and I have been unable to find much information that he wants, he just wants to know a bit about the basic training, how long, what sort of physical training is required that sort of thing. Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks

Your friend should make his way into a defence recruiting office or ring up and ask for information or application package.

Blackbird · Jan 17, 2005

Your friend should make his way into a defence recruiting office or ring up and ask for information or application package.

Honestly? Your best bet is to approach a military facility and ask to speak to someone. The recruiting office was born to spin you attractive spiels, not reality and living the Defence Force way is a different reality. Some take to the culture readily, a lot don't.

As for phasing out nurses, when did this happen?

Medics are in no way the same as nurses: more along the lines of nursing assistants (with further study they can get recognition as enrolled nurses in some States) and patrol medics are different again. Their training is specialised, only made available to certain personnel, pre-requisite training is required and subsequent training moves well beyond the spectrum of nursing per se - more pre hospital emergency care, like an ambulance paramedic actually. You can't enlist as a nurse either. You must enter as a direct entry officer. Nursing officers get some good slots and interesting roles, depending on where they end up and who they impress. But nursing agency staff in a military hospital? Not on your life.

Speaking of which, it's a good life - if you can stomach the culture.

Grace Oz · Jan 18, 2005

you could try the defence website www.defence.gov.au then select either army, navy or airforce then go to the careers link, but as I undertand the forces are phasing out having RNs, and train recruits as 'medics' and soldiers are trained in combat first aid, the base hospitals are staffed mostly by agancy staff. worth a try though.

TEDD, NO DISRESPECT BUT; THIS IS NOT CORRECT. Army, Navy or Air force DO NOT use agency staff. Personnel are either commissioned officers, (RN's who have trained in civilian universities prior to joining the defence force). Or, military trained medics, who BTW, DO get civilian hospital based training as well as within the military environment. As for phasing out RN's...... NO way! They legally could NOT operate their health facilities without fully trained, fully accredited nursing personnel, aka, RN's.

Regards,

Grace

DrBlaze · Feb 1, 2005

TEDD, NO DISRESPECT BUT; THIS IS NOT CORRECT. Army, Navy or Air force DO NOT use agency staff. Personnel are either commissioned officers, (RN's who have trained in civilian universities prior to joining the defence force). Or, military trained medics, who BTW, DO get civilian hospital based training as well as within the military environment. As for phasing out RN's...... NO way! They legally could NOT operate their health facilities without fully trained, fully accredited nursing personnel, aka, RN's.
Regards,
Grace

I'll add my two cents here as I'm an army reserve medic.

The military does use agency staff (both nurses and docs), but only in their Australian facilities. None of the agency staff ever get deployed overseas or the like. The unfortunate reality is that the defence force simply cannot staff the nursing and medical corps to capacity.

The role of a medic (Medical Assistant) is a bit of a mix of an EN and Paramedic. Now I'm sure there will be some howls of outage at the mere suggestion of this but there are some functions that medics perform that are usually legislated as 'doctor only' in civilian practice. this is just a reality of the medical/nursing professions in the military; there aren't enough other staff to do everything and nobody ever wants an officer running out into a battlefield when you can risk enlisted medics instead ( )

Grace Oz · Feb 2, 2005

I'll add my two cents here as I'm an army reserve medic.
The military does use agency staff (both nurses and docs), but only in their Australian facilities. None of the agency staff ever get deployed overseas or the like. The unfortunate reality is that the defence force simply cannot staff the nursing and medical corps to capacity.
The role of a medic (Medical Assistant) is a bit of a mix of an EN and Paramedic. Now I'm sure there will be some howls of outage at the mere suggestion of this but there are some functions that medics perform that are usually legislated as 'doctor only' in civilian practice. this is just a reality of the medical/nursing professions in the military; there aren't enough other staff to do everything and nobody ever wants an officer running out into a battlefield when you can risk enlisted medics instead ( )

So the question must be asked ...........

Are our defence forces, (in the field), receiving LESS than optimal health care?! Are they considered "unworthy" of having qualified doctors or R.N's assess and decide/treat them? If it's acceptable to have officers out in the field leading the men/women and right in there amongst it.... why anything "less" when it comes to having adeqately trained/fully qualified people to treat those same servicemen/women?

INCLUDING officers!

Not intending to diminish, disrespect, or downplay the medics, not at all. Am just responding to that part of your post whereby you stated; "nobody ever wants an officer running out into a battlefield when you can risk enlisted medics instead". You ALREADY have officers ON the battlefield! Are THEY not also PROFESSIONAL, QUALIFIED and TRAINED, (usually with university degrees just like doctors/nurses). ???

Personally, I see NO reason why those in the field should receive anything LESS than optimal care!

You don't get brain surgery from an unqualified, untrained person.... this should be NO different!

And, another view .... why should it be only the poor enlisted folks who are put in harms way? So, we have a double sided perspective here, wouldn't you agree? JMHO...

Cheers,

Grace

Grace Oz · Feb 2, 2005

some howls of outage at the mere suggestion of this but there are some functions that medics perform that are usually legislated as 'doctor only' in civilian practice.

This response is from someone who is a commissioned officer in our defence forces ..........

medics are used to provide that extra bit of a function that 1st aid cannot

provide, particularly in remote areas or on the battlefield. Nothing is

done that is supposed to be done by a proper doctor. In Australia, there is

always a doctor close by so they will send you to one where possible.

Regards,

Grace

Grace Oz · Feb 2, 2005

some howls of outage at the mere suggestion of this but there are some functions that medics perform that are usually legislated as 'doctor only' in civilian practice.
This response is from someone who is a commissioned officer in our defence forces ..........
medics are used to provide that extra bit of a function that 1st aid cannot
provide, particularly in remote areas or on the battlefield. Nothing is
done that is supposed to be done by a proper doctor. In Australia, there is
always a doctor close by so they will send you to one where possible.
Regards,
Grace

I, BTW, am NOT the commissioned officer! :chuckle I obtained that information from someone who IS!

KippaRing · Feb 2, 2005

Hi there. I'm new to this forum and delighted to find a subject I can actually relate to.

I can see how easily a thread can go astray here so I'll be as brief as I can and provide the appropriate link so that you can investigate further in your own time.

Today's Army medical assistant has so many areas of specialisation that further clarification is necessary. The (Regular) Army Med Assist (ECN031) course is a hospital/med facility based course that is equivalent to an Enrolled Nurse. The Army Reserve course is not. This is mostly due to time constraints in that the Reservists do not undertake the same amount of training as their regular counterparts. As a result, the course content is not identical and this has ramifications when attempting to register with the nursing board.

In my experience, I find it nowhere near the standard of what Australian term a paramedic. Having been in both reserve and regular forces, I have worked alongside US EMTs and ambos from Australian ambulance services and I would liken the med assistant to an ambulance attendant moreso than a paramedic. I can certainly vouch for this both on a curricular and practical level. Looking at the responses here I'd say Blackbird sums it up pretty well.

The only exception would be what we call the Patrol Medic. This training is conducted in special forces units or is part of a training course pertinent to its use: for example the RFSU Patrol Course or Combat First Aid. This training covers aspects of emergency medicine at a technical level and this is available to experienced people (usually males) attached to special forces or regional surveillance units. Doctors are not always available and in extreme environments where a doctor's presence would be ideal, the well trained patrol medic serves as a worthy but temporary replacement.

The Australian Defence Force does utilise agency staff in various capacities but under strict conditions. You would have to approach the agency who has this year's tender to get further details on that. Overall, agency staff are used because it's more economically viable for the ADF to pay for agency staff than it is their own personnel but, again, this isn't a common practice. On the whole, in Australia and its territories you will find military staff in military installations. I am certainly not aware of any phasing out of military nurses. In the mix, all military personnel are important ~ but to engage in a short discussion about tactics and strategy would defeat the purpose of contributing to this thread.

Grace, not all officers have degrees. However, this does not mean they aren't educated. Quite a few move up the ranks and others fill slots with equivalency in life experience and I would dismiss the suggestion that lower ranks are substituted for medical officers on occasions when they are required.

Rather than ramble on some more, for further information, check out the below:

http://www.defencejobs.gov.au/careers_explorer/Army367.html

http://www.defence.gov.au/army/stayarmy/RAAMC_files/RAAMC.html

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,11229749%5E2702,00.html (one of our own does good )

http://www.defencejobs.gov.au/careers_explorer/Army624.html

Cheers,

Kippa

Grace Oz · Feb 2, 2005

Grace, not all officers have degrees. However, this does not mean they aren't educated.

Sorry have to disagree in part with this statement.

ALL officers who go through ADFA, (Australian Defence Force Academy), have degrees. ADFA is an "arm" of the University of NSW, and is the Australian Defence Forces Officer training facility. Direct Entry Officers, more often than not, also hold degrees, usually obtained in civilian universities. I'm talking about COMMISSIONED officers here, NOT NCO's. (Non Commissioned Officers). There's a HUGE difference!

DrBlaze · Feb 2, 2005

Just so we're clear on the last post, all officers regardless of entry method are commissioned. Non Commissioned Officers are those in enlisted ranks with a rank of Corporal or higher.