ISU LVN to BSN program California

[LadyinScrubs]

ISU has two distant learning LVN to BSN programs. One is for California LVNs and the other is for non-California LPN students. While the programs are similar there are some differences.

1. The Calif BON has placed a limit on the amount of nursing classes that Calif ISU LVN to BSN students can take during a semester. Other states have no restrictions and non-Calif students would matriculate through the program and graduate faster than Calif students;

2. California ISU students are also students of Sanoma State University and must pay an extra fee to Sanoma State; ISU issues the diploma but Sanoma State is the qualifying university that will sign the paperwork for the Calif BON;

3. Lastly, TCN has one employee--the Sanoma State liaison--who deals with the paperwork and another person who is responsible for arranging the Calif clinical facilities and getting the paperwork signed.

This thread has been started to address the issues that California ISU LPN to BSN students or potential students are facing. Have questions about the California ISU LVN to BSN program, feel free to share.

[LilWhiteHat]

To my understanding about the freeze on accepting Cali students is bc ALL cal states are not accepting or limiting the amount of new students or transfers. In order to be accepted to ISU, you have to also be accepted to Cal State Sonoma and since Ca passed some bill, all cal states across the board (low or high impacted schools) are affected. Everyone I know except 1 person was accepted at a cal state this coming semester. Fortunately, they will be accepting students again spring semester '13...for now.

[LadyinScrubs, ASN, RN]

To my understanding about the freeze on accepting Cali students is bc ALL cal states are not accepting or limiting the amount of new students or transfers. In order to be accepted to ISU, you have to also be accepted to Cal State Sonoma and since Ca passed some bill, all cal states across the board (low or high impacted schools) are affected. Everyone I know except 1 person was accepted at a cal state this coming semester. Fortunately, they will be accepting students again spring semester '13...for now.

I don't follow your rationale--are you baseing it on fact?

1. The freeze on accepting Cali students is because ALL Cali states are not accepting or limiting the amount of new students or trasfers.

While I can't speak for every ADN or BSN program in Cali, the issue is there are too many nurses, and those who have graduated, have experienced great difficulty finding jobs. Part of the NLN accreditation requires that the school outline how they have helped graduates obtain jobs. If there is a glut in the job market, this impacts the school's accreditation.

2. In order to be accepted to ISU, you have to also be accepted to Cal State Sonoma and since Ca passed some bill, all cal states across the board (low or high impacted schools) are affected

You have it backwards. The SSU ISU partnership is under the auspices of the Calif BRN. To enroll in the program, one must FIRST enroll in ISU, pass the challenge exams, and then enroll in the LPN/LVN to BSN program. Once in the program, the Cali student pays tuition to both ISU and SSU. The students pays tuition to SSU for the clinical portion of the class ONLY but the student will also pay for clinical and lecture at ISU. There is no actual enrollment in SSU; once enrolled in ISU, the SSU enrollment is automatic. Just pay the required tuition fee. I believe the SSU is billed as an extension program.

3. since Ca passed some bill, all cal states across the board (low or high impacted schools) are affected.

Could you elaborate about "Calif passed some bill" that affected nursing schools in Calif, please. I am unaware of what you are talking about.

4. Everyone I know except 1 person was accepted at a cal state this coming semester. Fortunately, they will be accepting students again spring semester '13...for now

ISU accepts everyone who fulfills the requirements and passes the challenge exams--these students are accepted and only enrolled on an interim basis. This is a great opportunity for ISU. The process of getting through the challenge exams and passing the two interim courses is a great money maker for the program. Only after the student shells out approx $5000 for the challenge exams and the two courses and passes the courses, will the student be admitted to the actual program. (if the student boughtTCN study guies, add another $2000 to the cost).

If the student fails to pass the exams or the interim courses, the money paid is money in the bank for ISU. It is to ISU's benefit to take as many studejnts as it can; if the students are able to keep up in the program, then they are admitted. If not, there is always another student looking to become a BSN.

5. ISU received an accreiation evaluated by the NLN in March 2012, and there will be another evaluation for accreitation in 2013 "with a warning." So far I have yet to get an answer about the warning from the NLN--I was told it was the Cali BRN who issued the warning. I was given the name of the contact person at the Cali BRN for more info. Left message; so far, no reply.

6. There is a problem with student placements in Calif. That has been an issue for years, and it is getting worse. Now present and potential Cali students have received letters. If the student is actively pursuing the SSU LVN to BSN degree but has not been placed in a clinical, the student cannot move forward..that is, they cannot take any nursing classes until they are placed and pass a clinical.

Before the letter, if ISU could not place a student in, say, the Spring 2012, the clinical laision who places the students, would have the student take the lecture portion of the class Spring 2012, and then the person would try to place the student in a clinical the following Summer 2012 semester. If there was placement, the student would progress. The following semester, Summer 2012, the student would be doing two clinicals. The student would be doing the Spring 2012 clinical along with the the lecture/clinical for the Summer 2012 semester.

This way of doing things could be consiidered a ponzi scheme. That worked until Spring 2012 when lecture students could not be placed in a clinical, and then most of those students could not be placed in the Summer semester's clinical. These students are now waiting to see if they can be placed in a fall 2012 clinical so they can clear the Spring 2012 semester's requirement. Essentially, the students are stopped until ISU can place them in a clinical.

This scheme creates a huge accreditation problem. The Calif BRN mandated that all lecture/clinical classes MUST be taken together in the same semester. This is part of the rules for the SSU/ISU program to be accredited in Calif. However, because ISU was playing a ponzi scheme, they broke the manate. This situation has been going on for quite some time because. The problem is reflected on the difficulty of getting clinical placements for their distant learning BSN studets.

Now, if a studnt is working full tine in an acute care faculity, it was possible that the student's employer might allow the student to do their clinical at the faclity. However, there are other clinicals that require other placements--such as public health. This placement requires the student to be placed with a government public health agency. In Los Angeles and Los Angeles County, these gov agencies will not accept distant learning students.

7. One way to get around the problem is make SSU earn their money. Have SSU be responsible for clinicals. SSU could oversee clinicals in the county, counties that SSU is located. Thus, the SSU/ISU students would not be distant learning students for clinical placement because they would be doing their clinicals in Sonoma, CA. At the present time, SSU is doing little to earn the tuition Cali students pay to them. It is about time that SSU step up to the plate, justify the tuition they charge SSU/ISU students, and take responsiblity for the program in Calif. However, it may be that ISU does not want to give up control and SSU does not want the responsibility.

8. Why ISU stopped taking Cali SSU/ISU students has not been explained. The June 15th letter stated that the process should take 6-8 weeks. However, it is over 8 weeks and still no word. So, "Fortunately, they will be accepting students again spring semester '13...for now" is not based on fact. NO ONE KNOWS WHAT THE FUTURE OF THE SSU/ISU DL LVN TO BSN PROGRAM WILL BE. I have my fingers crossed that the outcome will be favorable for everyone involved--the student, SSU and ISU (as well as the medical facilities in Calif).

I has posted previous warning posts that ISU was withholding information about the problems it was facing in Calif. I was called names and told that my posts were harming the SSU/ISU program. However, the truth is ISU has maintained silence and only broke it with the two letters that were sent out to current and potential students. Until the Calif BRN makes its determination, no one knows what will happen.

I invite everyone to go to the National League for Nursing accreditation website and look at the rules/regulations for accreditation--especially those for distant learnng programs. It is enlightening. If you are enrolled in the program, is the SSU/ISU living up to those requirements mandated by NLN?

.

[tothepointeLVN, LVN]

I think that poster was referring to Cal State in general which as you've pointed out doesn't accept the ISU program. For awhile a lot of the Cal States weren't accepting applications at all for general students which left a lot of people stuck out in the cold especially those transferring out of community colleges. But again nothing to do with the ISU program.

[LadyinScrubs, ASN, RN]

I think that poster was referring to Cal State in general which as you've pointed out doesn't accept the ISU program. For awhile a lot of the Cal States weren't accepting applications at all for general students which left a lot of people stuck out in the cold especially those transferring out of community colleges. But again nothing to do with the ISU program.

Calif is an unusual situation. We have ADN and BSN programs--lots of them. The problem is people still think that there is a nursing deficit. And, they believe that they can easily transition into becoming a nurse with little education, time, etc. and make the big bucks.

No that the Calif nursing schools are impacted, there are wait lists. Some of them have become so long that schools are not taking students. Some schools continue to take students (such as the private, hugely expensive Western State Univ) or will take only ADN to BSN students.

That is the problem now, but as nurses finally start to retire, the recession is resolved, nurses go off to do other things, and potential nursing students pursue other degrees, the nursing schools will become less impacted (this is the history of nursing, employment, and nursing schools).

[tothepointeLVN, LVN]

I remember one of instructors telling me in the early 80's in Los Angeles there was a decision made to close 1/2 the nursing schools down because there was "too many" nurses and it didn't take long for the effects of that to be noticed. Unfortunately it seems to be the opposite thing happening in this area. More nurses, more nursing schools, more nurses, more nursings schools etc. Mainly because the new schools are all private. I assume back then the decision was made by the DHS or some governing body.

[LadyinScrubs, ASN, RN]

I remember one of instructors telling me in the early 80's in Los Angeles there was a decision made to close 1/2 the nursing schools down because there was "too many" nurses and it didn't take long for the effects of that to be noticed. Unfortunately it seems to be the opposite thing happening in this area. More nurses, more nursing schools, more nurses, more nursings schools etc. Mainly because the new schools are all private. I assume back then the decision was made by the DHS or some governing body.

Yes, that would make sense. After the end of the VN war, the economy was good and there was not a huge need for nurses. At that time, the babyboomers were in their 30s and having kids, getting married/divorce. In fact, there were so many nurses that it was difficult to get jobs that many nurses left the profession for less stressful jobs.

Sip 20 years into the future--late 1990s. The Baby Boomers are gettting ready to retire. There is a lack of nurses, it is expected the baby boomer nurses will leave the profession to retire, and the word goes out to educate more nurses. Nursing schools start to ramp up, and they receive grants from the government. The problem was there were not enough instructors, but the schools started to stamp out new nurses anyway.

Now we are into the turn of the century and the economy goes downhill. Nurses who were expected to retire don't because their retirement fund lost money in the stockmarket crash. People are becoming unemployed and losing houses to foreclosureand. The word is out that you can become a nurse quickly and make big bucks. All types of people start to flock to nursing schools.

We are now into the next decade and have discovered there is no nursing crisis, few nursing jobs available, and the nursing schools are impacted and/or closing their doors--with the exception of private nursing schools. These schools are charging desperate, potential nursing students $100,000 to 150,000 for a nursing education that should cost no more than $10-20,000. The private schools are getting away with it because they allow the student to take out student loans--student loans is a discussion for another time. Does this explain why the public colleges/universities are shutting their doors and why there are more private nursing programs?

Just wait 10-15 years and the cycle will change.

[tothepointeLVN, LVN]

I have to admit I had a little chuckle when I got the email notification and it said "after the VN war" and I'm picturing nursing caps strewn about and other VN vs RN related mayhem

[LadyinScrubs, ASN, RN]

I have to admit I had a little chuckle when I got the email notification and it said "after the VN war" and I'm picturing nursing caps strewn about and other VN vs RN related mayhem

Oops...forgot that some on this site know little or nothing about the VN (Viet Nam) war. Just call me a nurse who colors her hair to cover up the gray.

Oh, and you had me chuckling. I, too, could see the caps and white uniforms strewn about after the battle between RNs and LPN/LVNs.

[tothepointeLVN, LVN]

I'm from NZ so we didn't have much of a presence in the Vietnam War so even though I was born slightly after it was only something that came up in movies.

Though if VN did mean that and then they closed the RN schools down that would mean a) the VN's won or b) the RN's no longer needed to create new troops =D

[Inlandnurse]

LooL you are funny :w00t:

[misspinkmeow]

I was told by a few people that Obama is supposed to be getting a Healthcare bill passed and that is supposed to open up more jobs for nurses throughout the US..

I am not much on politics, but has anyone else heard of this or something along those lines?

I am starting LVN school in a few months and want to do the LVN-BSN program around 2014. I am hoping all this gets better by then.

What do you guys think

[tothepointeLVN, LVN]

Um is this a joke? Are you honestly just now hearing about this. I don't think it's doing to affect the number of jobs in a position upward manner. There's lots of discussion about this issue if you do a quick search on AN