Island Fever

OkieICU_RN · Nov 9, 2009

so just what is your question?

well, my original statement (rather than a specific question) was: i just would like to hear something.....anything.... positive about trying to make a move to hawaii.

i'm not all that sure you're headed here anyway, seeing as just a few weeks or so ago you posted that "you really want to move" to seattle (??).

definitely. i'd love to live in seattle. i love it there too and it's so completely different from hawaii. i have never said that i want to move to hawaii next week and stay for the rest of my life. it may be one place, it may be the other, or it could be both! in reality, we're waiting another year or two to become empty nesters and for me to decide on graduate school.

in asking questions about moving to seattle, many people are happy to tell others about the pitfalls of living in seattle. very high cost of living - comparable to hawaii if living downtown, near puget sound. the rain and gloomy weather almost all the time, etc. and the list goes on. one thing that is different though is that most people will extend further information to not only make an informed decision, but give information on how to make it a success. like: here's the downsides, but it can be done! they are talking about how wonderful seattle is and what it has to offer. i find that extremely rare on this forum.

1) extreme difficulty finding a place that will rent to someone who has dogs.

this is very helpful to know. i don't know if i'd want to have a dog(s) if i were going to live in a condo. especially since my dogs are big. really, that is helpful.

2) extreme difficulty in finding a job---you've apparently got some experience but so do many many many unemployed nurses here. and yes, facilities do count residential stability (read: local, long-time resident, even military spouse, not fob) as a big factor when hiring.

no military, no family here, etc. i get that. i haven't sought out the assistance of any staffing agencies, travel companies, nurse recruiters or applying to any position since it will be some time yet before we decide "for sure" where and when we want to go. so who knows, maybe things will be better at that point for everyone seeking a nursing position. if not, it is something that will add to our decision.

3) oh...and if you do manage to snag a job, guess what happens if census drops? you're the first to be cut. you stay home. no pto accrued, no pay, period. i've seen ft nurses work as little as one day per two week pay period in times of low census. i've also seen newcomers head back home after an extended period of low census, unable to survive here.

just for clarification.....why would i be the first one cancelled? if i were full time staff and the census drops, do they not take turns amongst the nurses on staff or on that unit?

4) the average stay for professional people who are transplants to hawaii (not beach bums or trust fund babies) is two years. the bloom is off the rose and the honeymoon is over by then. step into the revolving door that is life in hawaii. aloha, baby.

it may be that way for me and my family too. i have often asked (not here) the question for those moving to hawaii....how long does it take to look at the mountains, the ocean, the views all around and not be awe struck? i realize it will happen.

5) things undoubtedly work out better if you bring a fair amount of cash as a buffer during lean times. excellent credit rating is a plus, too, when apartment hunting and, increasingly, when job hunting. i have no idea what your cash flow/credit standing situation is so don't get defensive, just thought i'd toss this in the pot.

excellent points made here. definitely working on that. paying off student loans, socking away money to have "just in case" things don't turn out to be all lilikoi and plumerias. i'll ask more questions about this at the end.

6) resist the urge to convince yourself that you can put up with anything as long as "we are in ha-why-eeeeee!!!!" it's at best unrealistic and at worst downright delusional.

agreed.

we've been here nearly ten years and doing fine. please re-read issue #5 above. just as a point of information we would survive without my income, if need be. dh is retired with a decent pension, cars are paid for, just six years left on a mortgage that's got a monthly payment of not much more than most decent apartments rent for. kids are grown, we can travel a bit when we want to, my job is secure (yay union). my everyday stress level is pretty low. nice garden, nice little house (doing renovations ourselves), nice neighbors, good dog.

we've accepted the trials and tribulations of living here and yes, there are many. they've been discussed at length in this forum. like clockwork, every few months or so (i see stuff more often that that! :jester: ), there will be someone with dreams of moving here that will argue with residents about what it is like to live here. the classic "cost-of-a-gallon-of-milk" presentation gets old.

i couldn't agree with you more which i why i get so annoyed when people living here always bring up how much the milk, bread and gas costs. i'm not trying to argue, i'm trying to ask for real, information....tell me the truth.....it may be $8.00 in maui, but it simply isn't on oahu because i just paid for the stuff 2 days ago! that is reality.

my take on this is that they are actually arguing with themselves, trying to convince themselves that all these people who live here are wrong and they are right.

i really don't think that is true. i think people are trying to understand what other areas are we not seeing that no one else talks about? like i "hear" electricity is very expensive here but i have no idea how much a monthly electric bill would be. same for gas, water/sewage, etc. i hear about how bad traffic is here but i drive here everytime i come and i don't find it all that bad. i realize i don't have such "hard deadlines/timelines" as a vacationer; but those who live here do have to be at work at a certain time and want to get home as quickly as possible just like everywhere else in the world. as a nurse, if you work 12's, do you find traffic to be incredibly difficult to deal with at those hours of the day?

advice? as always, my advice is come on over and give it a try. the worst that can happen is that you use up all your savings and head back home.

good advice and true reality.

lisafrommaui is venting, as many of us who have lived here a while tend to do.

but damn, if you guys are venting...why not vent to each other, even within the forum? this thread as well as many others are directed towards mainlanders desiring to move here. warning about pitfalls is one thing, but a helping hand might be nice too. for instance, direct people towards resources that you may know of that others do not about making a successful move here. how much money to save up, what will have to be paid once here.

for instance, i find that many apartments to rent state that they are furnished. i have read conflicting information on bringing furniture from the mainland, buying it here, or it coming with ones apartment or condo.

i have also read conflicting information about shipping a car. at what point is it reasonable to ship ones own car? in other words, if the car is paid for, money is still owed, if it's only worth $2000 or if given many circumstances it would just be better to sell it and buy one here.

how much money is enough to have for cushion? i realize this is dependant on a lot of factors, but just thought i'd throw it out there.

you're fantasizing, as many who are on vacation tend to do.

that may be, but one day i'm hoping my fantasy becomes reality. trust, i will find the answers i need be it here, or elsewhere.

enjoy your vacation. :coollook:

thank you!

i'm not necessarily asking you or anyone on the hawaii pages to answer my specific or non-specific questions. it would just be helpful if you or others would direct me to resources where questions could be answered. i see now that allnurses is probably not the best place to ask these kinds of questions, but since i'm a nurse asking other nurses, i just thought it would be reasonable to expect some level of commraderie in asking for information. if you wanna answer these questions, that's cool. if not, that's cool too, no big deal.

Lisa From Maui · Nov 9, 2009

Dear Okie ICU,

I am gonna answer a question about bringing your dogs. I like things to be organized, so instead of adding the cost of dogs to this thread, I'm gonna start a new thread. -- Lisa ;-)

WindwardOahuRN, RN · Nov 9, 2009

>>3) oh...and if you do manage to snag a job, guess what happens if census drops? you're the first to be cut. you stay home. no pto accrued, no pay, period. i've seen ft nurses work as little as one day per two week pay period in times of low census. i've also seen newcomers head back home after an extended period of low census, unable to survive here.

just for clarification.....why would i be the first one cancelled? if i were full time staff and the census drops, do they not take turns amongst the nurses on staff or on that unit?

simply because you were the last one hired. we don't take turns and according to the union contract we don't have to. full-time? i answer, with all due respect, so what? we're pretty much all full-timers. seniority brings with it privilege. fair? well, the old-timers have worked long and hard and up until the last seven years or so the conditions for nurses here were pretty darn crappy. we went through a strike that lasted seven weeks and saw a lot of gains by doing so but we paid a huge price, both financially and in the overall morale at the workplace. so they (we, maybe?) have bought ourselves some rights that newcomers have to earn. like it or not, that's the way it is. so no, we don't take turns.

if you are looking for the hvcb version of aloha here you're in for a rude awakening. an awful lot of window-dressing and what i fondly refer to as faux-loha here, much to the shock and chagrin of some fob'ers. ask yourself (and answer honestly): would you give up a shift's worth of pay or pto (in my case, equal to about $600) to help someone who most likely will be outta here in less than two years? why?

>>for instance, i find that many apartments to rent state that they are furnished. i have read conflicting information on bringing furniture from the mainland, buying it here, or it coming with ones apartment or condo.

"furnished" does not mean necessarily mean furnished. welcome to the parallel universe that we call hawaii. "furnished" in hawaii rental lingo means that it has, at the very least, appliances. you have to ask.

i really can't address your other questions. i've got a touch of vertigo from shaking my head and i'm about to settle into an evening of cabernet sauvignon and desperate housewives.

one last note (for now): there are many many resources on the internet for people who want to move here. i'm sure that you can access them with a google.com search and if you are like most people thinking about moving here you already have. most people who already live here are pretty tired of arguing the (to them/us) obvious and just go with the "well if you want to do it just do it" advice. yes, people do live here, successfully. like anything else in life it's a trade-off. asking the cost of milk/electricity/gas is just, to me, a rather silly attempt to collect facts that mean nothing in the long run. they are the essentials of modern life and they have to be paid for, whatever else is sacrificed, if you are to survive. any decent rn job will afford you the capability of living a lifestyle that is quite a bit above tenting it on the beach. you will be able to afford utilities, gas, and yes, milk.

aloha---i'm off to immerse myself in the high drama of the housewives of fairview.

(excuse any typos/grammatical slips---i'm in no mood to proofread)

Lisa From Maui · Nov 9, 2009

Windward, you wrote, "I've got a touch of vertigo from shaking my head."

I'm laughing out loud!!! Thanks for the laughter. Enjoy your rest. -- Lisa ;-)

elppaym, BSN, MSN, RN, APRN · Nov 9, 2009

Aloha All!

I would have to say I'm blessed to have been able to experience both worlds, Living in Hawaii and Vacationing in Hawaii!

I'm Native Hawaiian and have a huge Ohana (family) in Hawaii. Kama'aina for those of you that have lived there or have friends there, are rates that our different than that tourists pay...it can be from local stores to hotel chains to tickets for events. So that's a plus...Kinda like being in Chicago and showing your I.D. to get discount rate into the Shed or Museum of Art, etc.

For me and my family, my wife and I are both RN's, moving back to Hawaii would be something we talk about quite often in the past. The reality is we have a better quality of living staying here on the mainland than moving to Hawaii...It would be better for us to buy a condo in Honolulu and vacation than move...but that is our opinion, our situation.

I have family that work in a variety of fields in Hawaii, it's just plain expensive...but that can be held true of anywhere...depending on the job market.

I will say this...there is definitely a difference from living in Hawaii and Vacationing in Hawaii...

for further research look at this link and talk to some locals, http://www.city-data.com/forum/hawaii/

As for traffic, like any other city, its a mad house during rush hour...period!

As for me, I've been back there 3 times to live, and every time I moved back to the mainland...maybe when we're older and the kids are grown up, but till then just to many opportunities on the mainland to compare...

WindwardOahuRN, RN · Nov 9, 2009

elppaym wrote:

>>I'm Native Hawaiian and have a huge Ohana (family) in Hawaii. Kama'aina for those of you that have lived there or have friends there, are rates that our different than that tourists pay...it can be from local stores to hotel chains to tickets for events.

Kama'aina rates are nice but honestly, in the last ten years, I've rarely had the opportunity to use them except for tourist-oriented events and venues.

When taking guests to the zoo, going to museums, etc, yes, we do usuallly get some kind of discount.

But for everyday stuff and events there is usually no special kama'aina discount.

When I see HECO giving a kama'aina discount I'll get excited.

koi310 · Nov 9, 2009

It is very difficult to "make it" in Hawaii without a support network. If you are an outsider without contacts, friends, or family to help you out, you probably won't last beyond a couple of years here, as WindwardRN stated. Those who lack the aforementioned support networks but DO survive here posses the following characteristics: resilience, independence, cultural tolerance, emotional and cognitive flexibility, and an ability to make friends quickly. Oh, and tremendous motivation to make a life here--as if the captain burned the ships after making landfall on an explored continent-type of motivation. Most people don't have these qualities.

dreamon · Nov 10, 2009

Wow, WindWardRN definitely put it into perspective to me than no one before.

If no one else was absorbing the advice you were giving, I CERTAINLY did!

My Hawaii fantasy was a long shot, but I know now that the only thing I will be doing there is vacationing or perhaps doing a military PCS at the most.

OkieICU_RN · Nov 10, 2009

Aloha All!
I would have to say I'm blessed to have been able to experience both worlds, Living in Hawaii and Vacationing in Hawaii!
I'm Native Hawaiian and have a huge Ohana (family) in Hawaii. Kama'aina for those of you that have lived there or have friends there, are rates that our different than that tourists pay...it can be from local stores to hotel chains to tickets for events. So that's a plus...Kinda like being in Chicago and showing your I.D. to get discount rate into the Shed or Museum of Art, etc.
For me and my family, my wife and I are both RN's, moving back to Hawaii would be something we talk about quite often in the past. The reality is we have a better quality of living staying here on the mainland than moving to Hawaii...It would be better for us to buy a condo in Honolulu and vacation than move...but that is our opinion, our situation.
I have family that work in a variety of fields in Hawaii, it's just plain expensive...but that can be held true of anywhere...depending on the job market.
I will say this...there is definitely a difference from living in Hawaii and Vacationing in Hawaii...
for further research look at this link and talk to some locals, http://www.city-data.com/forum/hawaii/
As for traffic, like any other city, its a mad house during rush hour...period!
As for me, I've been back there 3 times to live, and every time I moved back to the mainland...maybe when we're older and the kids are grown up, but till then just to many opportunities on the mainland to compare...

Elppaym....

Thank you so much for your post. The link you gave is the best resource I have seen despite my hundreds of googling attempts to find something like that. After reading some posts over there for the past hour, I can tell that Aloha is alive and well.

Again, thanks for sharing the info....it will come in handy during the planning and decision making stages.

Lisa From Maui · Nov 10, 2009

Dear Dreamon:

I'm glad you're listening. Glad one person is.

Please, come to Hawai'i. Vacation here. Have the time of your life. You will love it! Stay living on the mainland, get a good paying job, manage your money right, and you'll have money left over. Come back to Hawai'i every year to vacation. That's smart, realistic, and do-able.

We live in a 900 sq ft condo. Put another way, imagine a box that's 30 feet x 30 feet. That's 900 sq ft. Our condo has 2 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, a kitchen, dining area, living room. Can you visualize how small that is? We are on the 2nd floor. Rent is $1300 per month. I don't know about you, but to me, that's an outrageous amount of money to pay for rent for such a small place. And I'm thrilled that we are living here; we lucked out when we found a landlord that will take my dog.

Many people could write that there are many places to live on Maui for far less money. And that's true. I know a lady who lives in a studio apartment, for only $600 a month. She has no air conditioning. When it's 81-85 degrees, with 50-75% humidity, 6 months out of the year, she has no A/C. Plus, her neighbors are LOUD! But it's not so bad. She works two jobs, 60 hours a week, and she's only home to shower between jobs & to sleep at night.

Windward writes that it's a trade off. I agree with her, 100%. Sure, we could find a lower priced place to live, for less money, but would I want to? Heavens, no! So, we spend an outrageous amount of money to get a place that I like.

Wages here are so low... and everything costs so much! After you pay for your car, insurance, gas ($3.65/gallon last time I checked), maintenance, repairs, rent, electric, food, clothes, anything health-related, K-mart / Wal-mart, etc. You have very little money left. After you pay your BASIC BILLS, there's very little money left to do anything fun.

When you're here on vacation, you know you're gonna spend lots of money to go out and have fun. It's paradise! You can afford it because it's only for 1-2 weeks. Living here is a different story. Someone tell me... when you are just scraping by, just able to pay your basic bills, how is that fun? How is that paradise?

I hope someone else is listening.

WindwardOahuRN, RN · Nov 10, 2009

One bit of advice here. For all those thinking about moving to Hawaii I suggest you spring for a subscription to a local newspaper. The Sunday edition is enough. It will be delivered by mail to your mainland home complete with advertisements and you can read all about what is actually going on in the Islands. I had a subsciption to the Sunday editiion of the Honolulu Advertiser for a year before I moved here. The good and the bad, the classifieds, the letters to the editor.

http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/

Message boards are not the best source of basic information anyway. The posts are invariably colored by the posters' personal experiences and opinions and, IME, most people coming here can find basic info (price of gas/milk/housing/etc) somewhere else on the internet and they just want reassurance that they're going to be just fine if they come here. Sure, they ask about "good neighborhoods" and that's okay but then...they go on to dispute what residents say, citing something they read somewhere.

Maybe they'll be fine, maybe they'll crash and burn. The people who bomb out here and have less-than-wonderful experiences generally don't post on message boards and if they do they're roundly accused of "lacking aloha" by people who come to Hawaii on vacation and who are, with few exceptions and with all due respect, majorly clueless about life here, especially if they have even the slightest propensity for magical thinking or self-delusion. Yes, no matter how many times they've come here.

And if I hear one more mainlander admonishing others for "lack of aloha" I think I'll just bury my head in a bowl of haupia and scream. Haupia is a wonderful scream muffler. Just remember to lift your head when taking a breath between screams.

Would you like a list of links to sites with information about living in Hawaii, uncolored by message board angst?

Here ya go:

http://www.queensmedicalcenter.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=66&Itemid=141

WindwardOahuRN, RN · Nov 10, 2009

Another resource site---a few years old so the info might be a bit dated:

http://ssl.honoluluadvertiser.com/livinginparadise/2007/