How many residents is too many for one nurse?

Specialties Geriatric

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How many residents is too many residents for one nurse to safely and adequately take care of? Where I work, the nurse has anywhere from 15-25 or 30 residents, depending on what floor/hall they are on. There is two nurses per floor (each floor has the potential to house 55 residents total) on days and afternoons, however on midnights (which is what my regular shift is supposed to be starting tuesday) there is one nurse per floor and 2-3 CNAs. Now, on midnights there isnt as many meds to pass until the 6am med pass, there aren't that many sugars to check, and there aren't a huge number of medicare patients to specifically chart on (the facility's protocol is chart by exception except for medicare patients, patients on antibiotics, patients who have fallen or new admits, and any other condition that requires frequent documentation... which should be all patients in my opinion as there's a reason they are there!). So, I will have, depending on the census, up to 55 patients to myself along with 2-3 CNAs... How on earth can that be safe??? What if one patients begins to decline and I am tied up with them and another one starts to decline... there isn't two of me, and the other nurses in the building wont be able to leave their floor because they are the only ones on their floor too... Granted 911 is a call away and literally 2 minutes up the road, and the hospital is 5 minutes the other direction, but STILL - that's too many patients for one nurse to safely take care of in my opinion. Is it like this is most LTC/SNF facilities? am I being unreasonable?

How many residents is too many residents for one nurse to safely and adequately take care of? Where I work, the nurse has anywhere from 15-25 or 30 residents, depending on what floor/hall they are on. There is two nurses per floor (each floor has the potential to house 55 residents total) on days and afternoons, however on midnights (which is what my regular shift is supposed to be starting tuesday) there is one nurse per floor and 2-3 CNAs. Now, on midnights there isnt as many meds to pass until the 6am med pass, there aren't that many sugars to check, and there aren't a huge number of medicare patients to specifically chart on (the facility's protocol is chart by exception except for medicare patients, patients on antibiotics, patients who have fallen or new admits, and any other condition that requires frequent documentation... which should be all patients in my opinion as there's a reason they are there!). So, I will have, depending on the census, up to 55 patients to myself along with 2-3 CNAs... How on earth can that be safe??? What if one patients begins to decline and I am tied up with them and another one starts to decline... there isn't two of me, and the other nurses in the building wont be able to leave their floor because they are the only ones on their floor too... Granted 911 is a call away and literally 2 minutes up the road, and the hospital is 5 minutes the other direction, but STILL - that's too many patients for one nurse to safely take care of in my opinion. Is it like this is most LTC/SNF facilities? am I being unreasonable?

how on earth do you pass meds on all those people? It must take at least 2 hours or more! I have had 20-30 and I thought it was tough.

Specializes in Med nurse in med-surg., float, HH, and PDN.
how on earth do you pass meds on all those people? It must take at least 2 hours or more! I have had 20-30 and I thought it was tough.

Oh, doncha know? Everybody but you has NO PROBLEMS passing meds for 50 patients within the 2 hr. window allotted for a med pass! And nobody but YOU has to stay late to make sure your documentation gets done. And if you would ONLY work on your organizational skills and learn to prioritize, and QUIT TALKING TO YOUR PATIENTS, and "give it some time, you'll figure it out," then you will 'do just fine.'

You know what I'd like to do? Shadow the nurse who gets it ALL done early enough to goof off at the nurses station and takes additional breaks to visit with a nurse on another unit, who takes an extra long lunch-break....

I mean, what is wrong with this picture???????:confused:

Specializes in LTC.

I currently have charge over 30 or so resident. This week has been a little easier due to I have has several pass away, and several in the hospital (I know it sounds horrible) BUT it has made a huge difference in the level of care that I have been able to provide. and even with 20..we are so short staffed for CNAs..they are having 15 and more daily. It is a diffiuclty day, no matter how you look at it. It is must hard

I have like 40-44 and the possibility for more. Med pass in the evening takes, well, several hours. Then I do treatments and chart, then I have 30 minutes of lunch if I don't take I get written up (I have been there since October, written up 5 times now, 3 of them unjustified, 2 of them for things they should expect me to do but it's a financial issue for them instead of doing the right thing for the patient.) I am always stressed, overworked, rushing, and overwhelmed, I just try to do the right thing and be safe, and get home after the shift, always the shift from HELL. I want out of LTC, I will never go back if I get out of it. It's not fair for a nurse to have 40+ PATIENTS AND IT IS NOT SAFE.

All that matters to these places is MONEY. Nothing else.

Specializes in Med nurse in med-surg., float, HH, and PDN.

Jaime..I feel for you 'cause I've been there and done that; like I tell everyone on this thread who describes this type of situation, GET OUT ASAP! Your license is on the line. That's no joke. I am as serious as a heart attack; DON'T keep trying to do the job, find ANYTHING else. I wish I had gone to bag groceries rather than keep trying to keep up with the ridiculousness of working conditions like that. I am without nursing work to work off my probation because I can't find anyone to interview me for a nursing job. Forty years of nursing with a good CLEAN record, one mistake and I was turned into the board. Now I work as an aide just to make a buck and my income has dropped in half of what I made as a nurse. I'm in bankruptcy, also.

Find yourself ANY other job you can and get out of that LTC NOW! Best of luck to you.

Specializes in Assisted Living nursing, LTC/SNF nursing.
EMTs/Paramedics are NOT obligated to perform CPR or anything else if the resident has a valid DNR. They can transport to the hospital and not do CPR or insert an airway...at least in Massachusetts.

We can not dictate code status to the residents. It is their right to decide how much they want done and it is up to us to uphold their wishes. Personally, I think it's beyond outrageous to have to do CPR on a 93 year old guy with metastatic CA but it's not my choice.

That said, one day we will be staffing according to acuity and not simply numbers. One day, Medicaid will wake up and realize that they have to pay us more to take care of these people who are sicker and sicker.

I can only hope that one day staffing will be better, hopefully in my lifetime:o. Hopefully before I am one of those residents.

Believe me, if I could, I would. I hate this place. There's no C in LTC.... just M for misery.

Specializes in Hospice.
I find it interesting that a DON and the facility don't understand the pressure and the stress, that is put on Nurses in LTC

I would like to challenge all DON's out there to work one week on each shift with exactly the same tasks that the regular floor nurses have and the same time constraints. I really don't want to hear what it was like 10-20 years ago - that's not now. Show me that you can do it, and I'll shut-up.

Specializes in Gerontology, Med surg, Home Health.

Let's not turn this into a DNS vs. floor nurse. You might not realize all the constraints - time, money, and regulatory - we are under. I've done your job and every other job in the facility. I've had 30 sub acute patients of my own..IVs, TPN, wound vacs, trachs, behaviors...it wasn't easy but I got it all done and none of the residents suffered.

I will agree that some LTCs need to increase staffing, but where do you propose the $$ will come from to pay for it?

Specializes in Hospice.

I'm really not trying to make it into DNS vs. floor nurse, but (at least at my facility) it feels like it's already management vs. nurses. I'm told it's possible, no problem if you're a good nurse, but none of the nurses can do any better than I'm doing. Please, tell me how to get it all done. I have loads of things all due at one time, constant interuptions from residents asking for pain medications (for which I have to go back to the med room and wait for the really slow machine to pop them out, after I hunt down someone to cosign for me), five g-tubes, wounds, IVs, etc, accuchekcs, nebulizers, isolation patients (c-diff or MRSA generally), PT/INRs to check, colostomies to change, foley's to check, orders to deal with (write the order in the MAR, fax to the pharmacy, call the family), labs to review and call into the doctor, families to deal with (we have some very demanding family members), charting, and new admissions (each new admission takes about 2-4 hours without doing anything other than the new admit). Not to mention that the machine that gives us the meds breaks down constantly. And if there is a fall or other incident - oh boy!

I'm one of the most organized nurses there and even the "fast" nurses can't get it all done on time. If you can break down the way the day should be organized to fit it all in I'd love to try it that way. I want to get it all done, I want to not be stressed out, but I just can't seem to figure out how.

I don't know where the money will come from specifically, but I don't like hearing that we can't afford additional staff, but hey we have really good profits this year! Where do hospitals get the money? Surely something can be done.

Well when I see the administration wearing clothes from target and driving cars that don't come from BMW or lexus, I'll buy into the whole "budget constraint" crap. My work had so much overtime this week. People have to stay late to get their work :done. The solution: threaten employees that staff will have to be cut due to budget cuts and medicare and medicaid cuts. HELLO. Cutting will only make it worse. Then patients will be hurt or die because staffing is bare bones and dangerous as it is! I don't see what the management doesn't understand. If medicare and medicaid reimbursements are so awful that they can't afford to care for medicare and medicaid patients, don't take them. Maybe if medicare realizes, oh gee, our patients have no one to care for them because we pay squat, they'll change their tune. But don't lay it all on the nurses, we are not responsible for poor management, poor planning, and a financial crisis. Don't take managed care patients who don't pay for care if you can't "afford" to care for them. All it does it hurt the "budget" and give the nurses more and more and MORE AND MORE AND MORE work to do with more patients and less supplies and less help. It's stupidity.

And I'd like to see our managers and DONS deal with the crap scheduling, excessive unpaid meetings, and overwork we deal with. I know they have a lot of things to do, but they never blink an eye or think twice about setting unrealistic goals, adding extra time-consuming tasks and coming down on the nurses for every little thing. I'd like to see them deal with the situation with no orientation and constant put-downs like the newer nurses at my facility have to. All they seem to do is sit at the desk or walk around with their cell phones which is against the rules except for "business" for them (yeah right) and when we have a call off, they make US, the busy nurses try to find a replacement in the middle of med pass and if there's no one who is willing to come in or who isn't on overtime, we just get stuck working short after we waste time making the calls, and I never see them coming to the floor to help with med pass. They are the first to judge and lay blame yet they refuse to offer any assistance or help.

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