Advice needed about my Grandpa - Please!

Todd SPN · Aug 28, 2003

I can understand all sides here. Will he be mad at your interference? Maybe. Death is as personal experience. He probably knows something is physically wrong, but has to go through denial before he gets to acceptance. Along the way he will probably understand that your interference was out of love and concern, or he may know it now. Sometimes, people have a tendency to treat the aged like children, forcing them to do things for their own "good." Keep in mind that at his age he has lived through the depression, wars, raised a family, worked until retirement, maybe lost a spouse along the way, just a whole lot of living. He has his own view on living and dying. It would be great if you could get together with him and have a heart to heart talk. In the meant time, if you are going to school you have access to a lot of material on this subject. Good luck.

RN 2005 · Aug 28, 2003

Todd SPN thanks for your response. I know what you are saying and I understand completely what you are trying to get across. It is just so very difficult when it is your own family. I just cannot sit by and watch my grandfather refuse to eat. To me it is the same as knowing that someone wants to kill themselves and then doing nothing to stop it. I will just have to live with the consequences of forcing him to get help. I could not live with myself if we sat back and did nothing. I really appreciate your writing.

AmyLiz · Aug 28, 2003

Same thing happened with my mom & my grandpa a couple years ago. He's 87 now (turns 88 this October) and lives in his house with his youngest brother (who's pushing 70). They're like the odd couple & pretty much keep to themselves because grandpa doesn't want his kid brother telling him what to do (yes, gramps is a stubborn old coot!)

Anyway, a couple years ago grandpa wasn't eating right. Wasn't drinking enough water and didn't open his windows in the summer (doesn't have air conditioning either). He became extremely dehydrated & lethargic (obviously) and mom ended up calling the ambulance to take him to the doctore after he couldn't get up out of bed when she came by to check on him. He was in the hospital for almost a week and then was transferred to a nursing facility for a couple more weeks in order to get some PT. After this episode, he signed power of attorney over to mom. It took him being in the hospital to do this...he's always been a very strong, independant (stubborn) man.

Since then, he's been much better. Mom checks in on him practically every day (at least every other day) and brings him food & makes sure he takes his medications. Other than being in the early stages of Alzheimers, he's pretty darn healthy.

There will be a time soon though that he's going to have to get into a LTC facility. It's very hard on mom to make sure he eats & drinks & takes his meds, but he does listen to her (shock), so it's working out at the moment.

I totally feel for you and your mom. It's a really tough thing to go through. My grandpa is very stubborn & it sounds like yours is too. He may not have anything wrong with him, like cancer or what have you...like my grandpa, he may just not be hungry because of his age or he may forget to eat. That was the case with mine.

It's a tough situation. I hope everything works out okay soon for you all.

RN 2005 · Aug 28, 2003

AmyLiz,

Just reading your post made me so much better. I am glad that your Grandpa responded so well and is doing well! I just feel so relieved right now to even hear from someone who has dealt with this. My grandpa means the world to me and the call from my Mom today just put me over the edge! Your Mom sounds great. Thank you so much for writing. I just really needed to hear that we were not alone on this kind of thing.

AmyLiz · Aug 28, 2003

Glad I could be of some help.

You aren't alone. It is really difficult to watch someone you love & admire become weak with age. Not only difficult...it really bites.

I hope everything turns around for your mom & grandpa soon.

ktwlpn, LPN · Aug 28, 2003

Originally posted by RN 2005
It is just so very difficult when it is your own family. I just cannot sit by and watch my grandfather refuse to eat. To me it is the same as knowing that someone wants to kill themselves and then doing nothing to stop it. I will just have to live with the consequences of forcing him to get help. I could not live with myself if we sat back and did nothing. I really appreciate your writing.

Letting someone go when they have made it clear that they wish no intervention is not easy-but your grandpop is making his wishes crystal clear.If you think a third party should evaluate the situation call in the office of the aging-anonymously.They can make an unbiased decision regarding his living conditions.You don't say that your grandpop is demented-he just sounds like he has made up his mind..."You" can't sit idly by-This is about HIM and HIS wishes -not yours...Would you force feed him and insert a feeding tube against his wishes instead of let nature take it's course? "You" can not live with yourself and do nothing-again-this is not about YOU..Elders should not be MADE to perform by their children-just because he is not living the way the rest of the family wants him to is no reason to force him to do something he does not want to do-he is not a child...He has the right to live and die in his own home if he so chooses....

llg, PhD, RN · Aug 28, 2003

Is there any way you can find a happy medium between "doing nothing" and "forcing him to do things against his will?" Perhaps, if you explained how worried you are about him he would agree to let a visiting nurse (or even just a trustworthy friend) check up on him on a regular basis. Is there anyone he trusts and might let into his home ocassionally to see that everything is OK? -- a friend, a neighbor, a church member, relative, etc. It may not result in a perfect solution from your perspective, but if it results in a solution that your grandpa will cooperate with, it may be the best for the situation.

It's fine to encourage, cajole, etc., but, asktwlpn said, this situation is not just about you and/or your feelings. Your grandpa also has feelings and they need to be respected -- even if he makes choices that are not of your liking. You need to find a compromise that your grandpa can support, even if it is not exactly what you want. He has a right to be his own man and live and die the way he wants to.

llg

Jay Levan · Aug 28, 2003

Hey Kris,

My Dad is 84 he is dying of Asbestosis, a respiratory condition he aquired at one of his jobs a long long time ago. There is almost nothing that can be done for him, short of a Lung transplant which his doctors do not feel he would survive. So his family just has to be supportive and try to let him live out his days with as many of us around him, interacting with him as much as possible without tiring him out. It only takes a few sentences of speech to tire him out, and he becomes severely dyspneic. So we read with him and help him do crossword puzzles, at the kithen table. This became his passion a few years ago. How really odd that is, since he never went to school past second grade. He did get his GED when he was in his fifties, and he passed an exam to be a engineer at his last job. However the bulk of his knowledge was self taught. Of course being married to my Mother, the perpetual student, helped a great deal. I have also peaked his interest in the "Jumble" which is right next to the crossword puzzle in our local paper. He now tries to get to the paper long before I arrive in order to have a sufficient head-start, to the point that we compete to see who solves the puzzle first. He is very set in his ways as I am sure your Granddad is, please do not beat yourself up about something that you or your Mom has any control of. He will do things his way until he can no longer function, if he is at all like my Dad. He will not allow anyone to make decisions for him, because that is the way manly men were taught to function in their day. Realize that it is far to late in his life to change his spots now. Be his Grandson, be his friend and be supportive of his decisions even if you don't agree. Be proud of him and learn from his courage, and he will be proud of you and draw on your courage. Cherish whatever time you have left with him, and he will cherish your memory in the hereafter. I hope this doesn't sound all knowing, because I don't know everything, I only know what is working for us. God bless you and your family in these troubled times. Jay

RN 2005 · Aug 28, 2003

Thanks for all of your opinions. I am going to go ahead and leave this thread alone. I was very upset when I posted and should have thought more completely before I put this here. This is a very private situation that I am obviously not explaining properly.......Thank you.

ktwlpn, LPN · Aug 30, 2003

I hope you are not disgruntled because some of us have said things that you do not want to hear.Yes-it is a very private matter for your family but we see this almost every day and many of us have been through it also.Your mom and grand-pop are not the only dysfunctional family-believe me I think that is the norm...You could gain alot of insight from hearing others stories on this BB-I hope you reconsider.I'll tell you that bringing my mother home to die was the hardest thing I have ever done-but it was what SHE wanted...It was not about ME and what I wanted FOR her.Becoming older and ill does not mean you loose your right to self-determination.You can support your mom as she comes to terms with her father's mortality..As long as he has not been declared incompetent no-one can force him to do anything....

CVnurse08 · Aug 30, 2003

Even though you said you were leaving this thread, I had to share my very similar story. My dad badly needs heart valve replacement surgery but refuses to have it b/c like you said about your grandpa, he doesn't like doctors or hospitals and is afraid he won't come out ~ exactly like your grandpa. And, you know, there is absolutely nothing my mom or I or my siblings can do to convince dad so you just have to hope for the best and let them make their own decisions even if they are not the wisest. It really hurts at times but I have come to realize that there is nothing more that we can do. I know this isn't what you wanted to hear but I am just speaking from personal experience. I really hope things turn out better for you than they are for me and my family.