Does the scientist in you feel out of place in nursing school?

orrnlori, RN · May 13, 2004

Peeps,
I have a bio degree and am not what I would consider to be a nursey-nurse touchy-feely type person. But I found my niche in nursing just the same-- I chose to start my career in the most scientific, mentally challenging, and technologically advanced area I could think of-- the ICU. And I am currently applying to CRNA school. I think we need all different kinds of nurses-- the really caring, compassionate, touchy-feely ones, as well as the scientifically-minded ones. That's why there are so many different areas of nursing to choose from-- to each his or her own!! :)

I totally agree. I'm not touchy feely either but found my niche and I'm very glad there are nurses who have what I don't have. It's good you've found that the PA position is for you, but you have to realize that most people who go into nursing know what they are getting. The PA position would be fine for me if I were younger because it fits my mind set perhaps a little better than nursing, but I'm too old to start over a third time. I've also worked with some PA's that were really PIA's, acting like they were in fact doctors, which they aren't. So when you get out, remember, those old nurses know an awful lot of medicine to go with their touchy-feely compassion. Learn from them.

Peeps Mcarthur · May 13, 2004

By Hobbes

What I've learned from these experiences isn't so much that nursing isn't for me, but that if I really want to learn something and understand it, I'm going to have to put in a little extra effort.

Good point. There's nothing wrong with buying more texbooks, CD-Roms, or registering for classes that are not required like genetics and patho for premeds. The same enthusiasm can be applied to learning psychosocial variance as a medical clinician.

I'm going to start the chemistry classes this fall. I will be doing all of them as a prerequisite.

What did you use to prepare for chemistry classes?

cookie78 · May 13, 2004

Wow- I am really shocked to hear that you aren't required to know this kind of scientific stuff. It must really depend on what school and what region you work in. I have a bachelors in biology and am very scientifically minded and admit that it is hard to accept the very grey attitude about some of the nursing art, however at the school I go to a very high level of knowledge about science and medicine are required. It isn't enough to know the pharmacology and the diagnosis you have to know how they interact and the possible outcomes or complications, you have to be thinking about the pathophysiology all the time and you need to relate that to what you actually see in the patient. When we turn in careplans they have to include a description of the pathophsyiology based on the actual patient and your assessment. We wash patients, turn them have them do IS, and give meds...but these are only tasks right...wrong doing these things with patients can give you a much better picture of the actual disease process and pathophysiology. You have to start thinking beyond task orientation, that is what we learn all the time. Admittedly we are not going to be doctors or the main practitioner involved in actual diagnosis but it is our resposiblity to recognize a change and plan for the course of treatment beyond diagnostic testing and medication. This is not meant to point anyone out as a heretic, it is just my experience and opinion.:)

Peeps Mcarthur · May 13, 2004

By Orrnlori

I've also worked with some PA's that were really PIA's, acting like they were in fact doctors, which they aren't. So when you get out, remember, those old nurses know an awful lot of medicine to go with their touchy-feely compassion. Learn from them.

I know the type :)

I've also worked with nurses that were PIAs and thought they were medicly trained, which they aren't. Heck, I've met some doctors that thought they were doctors, but they aren't! :rotfl:

The factor is in the clinical hours of medical training, actualy putting didactic medical education into practice. Nobody is above the right of passage.

Peeps Mcarthur · May 13, 2004

Cookie, and others

I appreciate your enthusiasm for nursing and I'm certainly not here to say that those that like science should not like nursing.

Keep in mind that when discussing feelings about an adequacy of medical basis within a curicculum that it is subjective. You're not likely to hear this from a classmate that is silently suffering as I was.

I'll use a former classmate as an example. She thought that the pharmacology and physiology applied to our courses was too detailed. I thought it was adequate but not applied to questions and lecture. She thought a course section about pharmacology should be about the patient,their family,comfot....etc, I thought it should stress drug-drug interaction, physiological response, correct dosing regieme.......anyway,who is right?

Nobody. It is subjective. She thinks it's science based and I think it's not.

I looked at alot of course desciptions before a gave it up all together. The basis for nursing care is psychology and sociology as I look at it objectively. I've observed that those that have a desire for those models of care feel that nursing is science based on the predilection to holistic thinking.

Because of a predilection to medicine, psychology and sociology to me are not science models that I would consider as a foundation, rather just useful to the care of the patient. Because nursing involves constant patient contact, and any medical procedure comes with an order, it is understandable that psychology and sociology would lead the way and there wouldn't be much of a need for any other basis.

That is not how it was presented to me by the counselor, my instrutors, or the course materials. It was presented as a blend of medical and nursing models..................in hindsight now, I can't see why it would be.

If you or others don't feel that way.............good for you, but there are others that do and they can't speak of it to anyone or work it out with themselves that they aren't failures because they don't possess some unique nursing mind that would make them feel the same subjective feelings.

They are here lurking.

Peeps Mcarthur · May 13, 2004

By Cookie

I have a bachelors in biology and am very scientifically minded and admit that it is hard to accept the very grey attitude about some of the nursing art, however at the school I go to a very high level of knowledge about science and medicine are required.

Would you be so kind as to post a course description or two from the fundamentals semester? I don't want to go with subjective statements. That just turns into an off-content brawl.

Mission statement maybe?

I did that in a thread once and people were amazed at the difference in objective vs subjective feelings that occured.

hobbes · May 13, 2004

By Hobbes
Good point. There's nothing wrong with buying more texbooks, CD-Roms, or registering for classes that are not required like genetics and patho for premeds. The same enthusiasm can be applied to learning psychosocial variance as a medical clinician.
I'm going to start the chemistry classes this fall. I will be doing all of them as a prerequisite.
What did you use to prepare for chemistry classes?

I have the same preparation method for all the classes I take - basically I try to read as much of the textbook before the first class as possible. For science classes, I always get another text (usually from the library) in addition to the assigned text, so I can get a different point of view for topics I find more difficult. I'm the type that usually learns best from books as opposed to lecture which can be a crap-shoot depending on what type of instructor you have.

Alexandres · May 14, 2004

I was thinking that some of you that would like a "hands off" approach may enjoy being a CRNA. I would wager that the courses are very scientific and the job itself would satisfy the scientist in you.. :)

I am considering this road and one of the main reasons that I'm changing careers is the wide spectrum of choices that nursing provides. The has to be several nursing specialties out there that would be more scientific than others. More research is in order, I would say.

Alex

Peeps Mcarthur · May 14, 2004

Alexandres, others.

The base requirement for CRNA is a BSN with additional training. Science courses must be added to reach the prerequisite requirements for elegibility to apply to CRNA. There is also a requirement of a minimum of 1 year ICU experience so CRNA is a long way from the fundamental courses that would make a medicaly-minded student feel out of place.

The individual course descriptions in those fundamental classes that set the foundation for all that will follow can speak to the heart of the student that feels out of place.

I'll do a search but I want to stress and make very clear:

1:This is not a forum to point out fault or promote any program over another.

2:This is a thread dedicated to helping a student, that may or may not continue in nursing, to understand why they don't feel comfortable and offer commiseration.

3:This thread does not push students away from nursing, but rather, gets them on a path where they belong. If that path is a more medical track, they'll know it without having to talk badly about nursing or be told they are wrong to chose differently.

4: Keep the discussion objective. If you must make a subjective statement to relate to the subject preface it with respect. This is a place to feel good about our roles in healthcare and an oasis from our troubles.

Please be careful. If you aren't sure let's discuss it by PM or email.

Alexandres · May 14, 2004

Peeps,

I think we are misunderstanding each other.

I was not trying to be negative in any way toward anyone's goals. Quite the opposite. All I am saying that with any career field, there are courses or situations (even jobs), one must take to get where they want to go that may not provide the type of education or developement they are looking for.

My suggestion of going the CRNA route (btw, I am extremely familiar with the reqs as I have been investigating it for a few years now) is that it may fit some better than regular nursing. I was not being negative at all in this suggestion, but offering what I consider a positive suggestion that would only build upon the nursing education already received.

Granted, I completely agree with you that some of the fundamental courses needed may not sit well with scientific types, I'm sure the same happens if you initially pursue coursework in a scientific field. What I don't agree with is the assumption that if a few classes don't fulfill the scientific need that some require, they should drop it all and go the medical route. Then again, that may be the best option for those individuals. From what I have seen, there are a myriad of opportunities in nursing that may provide what you are looking for. If you construe that as being negative, my apologies. That is not my intent.

Alex

Peeps Mcarthur · May 14, 2004

Alex,

I didn't intend for the entire post to be associated with the quote i used from you.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

By Alexandres

What I don't agree with is the assumption that if a few classes don't fulfill the scientific need that some require, they should drop it all and go the medical route. Then again, that may be the best option for those individuals. From what I have seen, there are a myriad of opportunities in nursing that may provide what you are looking for.

The foundation courses of nursing follow through the masters level as a basis for that theory. It would follow then that if a person fells estranged from the nursing curicculum in the foundation courses, then that will always be so to a degree which those courses apply.

Alexandres · May 14, 2004

Agree that the possibility of this may be true, but I hope that this is not the case in the graduate curriculum. We shall see. I wish you luck in whatever you decide to do.

Alex