The student nurse - page 8
How do you feel about working with a student nurse? How comfortable are you with the student nurse basically taking over your patients and paper work while you observe? If you are not comfortable... Read More
Apr 3, '12 by kidsQuote from musickx2Due to the behavior of several students from multiple schools my (most recent) employer elected to ban them from the department. To be honest, I was relieved as my experiences with students had been increasingly negative over a few years leading up to it.How do you feel about working with a student nurse? How comfortable are you with the student nurse basically taking over your patients and paper work while you observe? If you are not comfortable with the student taking your patient load what do you like your student nurse to do while assigned to you and your patients.
Anymore, I don't enjoy the extra time and work that having a student involves, I don't like having to look over someone's shoulder constantly and having to double check their work (or clean up their messes). On top of that, I don't feel that having a student enhances the care patients receive at all. The are plenty of nurses out there who enjoy having students, thats great, it means I don't have to deal with them.
Even when I was enthusiastic about having students I would never have been comfortable with one "taking over" my patients while I observed. I come from a State where the assigned nurse is responsible for the actions of the student s/he's supervising, if it's my license on the line I prefer to do the work myself.
Apr 3, '12 by healthstarI have had the best nurses ever!!! I also worked with some lazy nurses, that I pray for their patients everyday. There are only a few nurses who actually know what's going on with the patient, eg:why is the patient having certain labs, procedures done. There are also nurses who frequently say I don't know why, and the doctor said so.....very sad. If you are a good nurse/teacher/preceptor you won't mind having a student nurse passing meds, doing dressing changes, monitoring VS, doing I and O, calling the doctor etc......because you can supervise the student, you can be with her at all times.....stop her whenever she's wrong. I have had preceptors that would copy and paste all the notes that other nurses wrote previously, documenting assessments that they did not actually do, telling patients I am going to call the MD and they never do.....I also had preceptors who would tell me to pass meds, insert an IV, suction .......without even checking the meds...Hello I am still in nursing school, I have questions, I cannot be independent in all situations. I have found that those nurses who do nt like students are the ones who suck at every skill, and they falsify documentation. I am a very determined student, I do not go to work or clinicals to text, gossip, sit around and be lazy. I am always on the run, I d not have the " it's no my patient mentality", I always ask if people need help, I get involved, I ask questions, lots of questions,............I want to be a great nurse, and not some lazy person who sits around during her 12 hour shift and talks about her life story. I never leave work or clinicals without completing my tasks, I do not want to leave my assignments for the other shifts.............I hate lazy people and those who don't work as a team......I strongly believe that student nurses make the job much easier for those nurses who are actually organized and intelligent. Just curious........why don't the older nurses remember their life as a student, why do they forget the people that have helped them??? You were not born a nurse.....I'm sure you got a lot of help to get to the position you have now. )))
Apr 3, '12 by RockinChick66Quote from VespertinasThe student should be well prepared by instructors on what tasks are expected of them in the healthcare setting. I usually never have problem with students, but the SNs I had last week were absolutely ridiculous. My students received report, they should have know what foods were allowed for their pts. And aren't they taught to document color/amount of urine......which they could have just reported to me had they had the initiative to empty the urinal. I mean 300cc of clear/yellow is usually a no brainer. I Offered SUGGESTIONS and told them at the beginning of shift, have some iniative, encouraged them to talk to the patient and assist with baths, linen changes, etc.....which is a no brainer in my opinion. I think these particular students I had were just flat lazy or very unmotivated!Pepper, you're tough!
I think one explanation for this behavior is that the student has never been in the healthcare setting before and has no idea what tasks are or are not okay for them, especially since they've been trained in school to be extra-careful about everything they do. If I empty a urinal, maybe the RN wanted to see what it looked like first. If I offer a snack, maybe the patient is not allowed certain foods. If I follow you, maybe I'm not invited since I've been asking you what I can do and you've not offering any suggestions.
Some RNs 'dislike' SNs I think because they're uncomfortable with their own practice and it's like they're reminded of the anxiety of school all over again when they're questioned about it.
Last thought: I wish the hardest part of my day was the med pass. I don't know how to explain it but somehow even when I have very few meds to give, my day is still packed with nursing activities. Thank you for giving one or two of my patients their meds but.. really.. you don't understand it's SO much more than that.
I don't dislike SNs at all. I just expect them to have some sort of initiative other than sitting on their darn bum all day.
Apr 4, '12 by traumaRUs, MSN, APRN, CNS AdminCan we get back on topic please? The OP is looking for nurses opinions about students. Lets afford her the courtesy of answering her concerns.
Apr 4, '12 by traumaRUs, MSN, APRN, CNS AdminI'll try to answer the OPs questions:
I have had many students over the 20 years I've been a nurse. In the beginning when I was a staff nurse in the ICU, the students would just observe, they didn't have the responsibility of the pt (please remember this was 20 years ago).
As time advanced, though the students that I had (by this time I worked in the ER), would take one of my 4-5 pts and concentrate on them. Of course, I was ultimately responsible for their care. Some students would do better than others. Since this was a high acuity level one trauma center, there were fewer students. However, ER was an elective for some schools and some students really liked ER. The ones I felt most comfortable with were ones that had been a paramedic, CNA or LPN before becoming an RN.
Now, as an APN, I have many more responsibilities (and more pts too - lol). I simply don't have the time to take students now as I have to see and take care of so many things in a day.
I have had student APNs but I always felt they were getting cheated out of an experience. They were back to mainly observing.
Apr 4, '12 by chevyv, BSNI've never had a student, but would love one! I work behavioral health and am on a ltc unit. Not elderly but those that can't be placed in society. It would be a great experience for a student interested in mental health, but I've never seen one student
I do recall my clinicals and can understand why some students would think that nurses hate to have students. I went in with many years experience as a cna then lpn so I could tell that it wasn't so much the nurse not wanting a student, but more that the nurse was super busy, had an extra pt or two, and then a student to watch over as well. Sometimes students need to look outside their student world and realize that the pt or two they have is nothing compared to what that nurse is dealing with that day.
Apr 4, '12 by VespertinasI thought maybe I was going crazy so I re-read the first few pages of this thread and reassured myself I still never felt that wish_me_luck came off with an attitude. In fact, at times I felt that (despite making worthwhile points) RNsRWe was more overtly hostile. But THEN I read this gem:
Quote from healthstarSo if one DOES mind having a SN, then they are NOT a good nurse or even intelligent? It's too bad wish_me_luck just bore the brunt of representing all the SNs who really are THIS obnoxious.If you are a good nurse/teacher/preceptor you won't mind having a student nurse passing meds, doing dressing changes, monitoring VS, doing I and O, calling the doctor etc......because you can supervise the student, you can be with her at all times.....stop her whenever she's wrong...I strongly believe that student nurses make the job much easier for those nurses who are actually organized and intelligent.
Quote from Fiona59You know, we did too. But I still felt that I needed to re-start from at least the middle once I was hired on a unit that was a different specialty from the one where I completed my practicum.@ Vespertinas (sorry if I've spelt it wrong)
Pepper ain't tough, she's Canadian. That's the way of Canadian nursing. Orientation is to learn the unit/hospital routine. New grads are expected to know how to be a nurse.
Pepper, like myself was required to show that we could manage a full patient load before we could graduate and write our exams.
Apr 4, '12 by RNsRWeQuote from VespertinasThanks. I think.I thought maybe I was going crazy so I re-read the first few pages of this thread and reassured myself I still never felt that wish_me_luck came off with an attitude. In fact, at times I felt that (despite making worthwhile points) RNsRWe was more overtly hostile. But THEN I read this gem:...<insert obnoxious post here from student>...
Apr 5, '12 by PetsToPeopleAll of the original questions posted by the OP have been answered, although in a round about way. If she is doing some sort of research for a report or some such for school, I believe she is getting a bit of an idea of what she may expect when she goes to clinicals. Basically it will be either hit or (mostly) miss on whether or not she will get a nurse who is a good teacher or a bad one. Either way she has some control over her own destiny, and either her nurse will teach her or she can go find someone else who will. Be proactive, this is your education, your future, and atleast for me, I will be darned if I will let anyone get in between me and my families future.
The nurses less than enthusiastic feelings on taking on a SN can have to do with many things, such as higher pt to nurse ratios and higher pt acuity; just as some SN do not make great students, some nurses do not make good teachers; low morale in the dept where the nurse works and also consider the group mentality of that dept., if there are many nurses there who do not like taking on a student, other nurses tend to pick up on and share that mentality...there are so many factors at play.
When I worked as a Vet Tech I loved to take on new employees for training, of course it wasn't easy, but things worth doing seldom are. Somedays I was a great teacher, and some days not so good. And I have had great students, good students and reeaallly bad students. What I loved the most was to see that wide eyed look they get when they do something new on their own (while I observe, because, seriously, no one is going to really learn from just watching someone else do something), and then they look at you and you get to share that moment with them, as if it were ten years ago and you were doing that procedure for the first time all over again. And the more complicated the procedure the better, such as intubating a cat or doing a jugular blood draw, or helping them through a critical thinking process on an ICU pt and you see them connect the dots and see that light over their head flick on because they've solved the puzzle.
I am a firm believer that a nurse should never be forced to take on a student, and of course there should be some type of compensation for those who volunteer, and it does not necessarily have to be monetary in nature. I was never paid extra, nor compensated in any way, although it would have been a nice.