Nursing Application Photos: Discrimination or Not - page 6

During my recent job hunt in the nursing field, I decided to contact a recruiter to help me with my application and "getting my name out there," so to speak. I worked with her for a few months... Read More

  1. Visit  Chin up profile page
    2
    Quote from roser13
    How is it discriminatory to ask applicants to provide information? I think we're all too quick to cry "discrimination" in this country.Either provide the photo or don't. Of course, anyone who really wants a position will do their utmost to comply with a reasonable request from a potential employer. And this is a reasonable request. FYI, it used to be routine to attach a picture to your resume - perhaps some applicants still do that as a matter of course and the employer just wants to make all applications similar. You don't have any way of knowing why the employer wants the picture and to refuse such a small request will likely tell the employer alot about you and your ability to be a team player.
    The tone of your post comes off accusatory. I realize the written word sometime has that effect, so forgive me if I am wrong. To answer your question, sending a picture is not information unless you are in the image field, ie, modeling, TV etc or you are asking to be helped in some way. The agencies looking to hire were none of these things.

    Second, she was not asking about being a "team player" she asked a legitimate question as this is out of the ordinary. I have never been asked nor do I know anyone who has been asked to send in a picture before an interview. Again, excluding the "image" fields.

    Third, there is a reason pictures are not on resumes anymore. If you choose to put one on yours, that is your business, but let's not play dumb and try to reason the playing field is fair and has always been. Worse, don't try and insult everyones intelligence by stating the picture request is reasonable. Honestly, what besides appearance can you tell about talents, character and qualifications from a picture? Meeting face to face is a far better barometer, don't you think? Also, pictures are generally a person in their best light and may reflect, more than is...

    Lastly, I didn't see asking for the picture as something ugly, nor did I see her question as ugly. I gave both sides the benefit of the doubt and still believe there is a good reason. However post like yours, gives pause to the matter...forgive me if I am wrong and did not give you, the benefit of the doubt. Peace!
    Mrs. SnowStormRN and lindarn like this.
  2. Visit  kcmylorn profile page
    3
    I asked 5 of my friends and coworkers who also happen to be nurses. They all said the same thing, like one of the OPers stated- it's so the recruiter can size the applicant up up before calling for an interview. Discrimination. It think with that said, the original poster who encountered this should contact(either via phone or e-mail) or send a letter explaining this insident to the EEOC. The EEOC can be googled and it will list an office in your area with the contact information. It's simple, confidential. This is a federal government agency and this is what they do for a living. It doesnt cost anything and they cant help or give answers if they don't know a problem exists. Nursing is NOT an appearance based profession. And if you read the papers or listen to the news- the federal govenrment is trying to get to the bottom of all this economic crisis and unemployment in the country. As evidenced by: catching 100+ people ($225 million ) in Medicare fraud, investigating the banking system because of the forclosure rate and subprime lending(FCIC committee) the increase in EmployER unemployment insurance premiums from $7,500 to $15,000( will cost the employER more now to fire or terminate an employEE than before). They can't help if you don't report.
  3. Visit  kcmylorn profile page
    3
    Chin up what does this mean-" Except for age and that too in very small instances, qualifications will eventually land you a job in healthcare"

    Age should not be a factor in landing a nursing position. It is a protected area in the Antidiscrimiation labor laws. All the more reason to contact the EEOC.
  4. Visit  Chin up profile page
    2
    Quote from kcmylorn
    Chin up what does this mean-" Except for age and that too in very small instances, qualifications will eventually land you a job in healthcare"

    Age should not be a factor in landing a nursing position. It is a protected area in the Antidiscrimiation labor laws. All the more reason to contact the EEOC.
    Age is happening now in my area and I felt I could not discount it. Being fifty and having friends 60-63, I am seeing what they are going through and have started advocating recently. This will be me in a few years, if not now. I hope I did not word that wrong and make it seem acceptable, because it is appalling and will not be tolerated. We baby boomers are at our greatest numbers and we have the power to nip this in the bud. Because I saw race implied by a particular poster, my answer was geared toward that. I also could have gone after gender or sexuality, but was trying to stay on a particular point. Hope that answers your question.
    lindarn and nightengalegoddess like this.
  5. Visit  kcmylorn profile page
    1
    Chin up,- thanks for clarifying and sharing- I too am a 50 something nurse and my nursing comrads are 60 something. Those were the ones I ran the post by with the same conclusion you all came up with. Any ideas how we nip this in the bud, what can we do to - I'm all ears for any suggestions you would offer. One of the nurses I spoke said age discrimination is very difficult to prove. What area are you in? I'm in the Philly Pa area- real city of brotherly love! One of my friends is a 60 something RN - LTC everything from staff nurse, MDS coordinator, to DON - months looking - can't find a job!!
    lindarn likes this.
  6. Visit  Chin up profile page
    1
    Quote from hiddencatRN
    I would have minded. I'd have still jumped through the application hoops, because I don't operate under any illusion that I'm bargaining from a position of equal power with employers, but agreeing to something out of desperation doesn't mean you're comfortable with the practice at all.
    Hiddencatrn, I absolutely love your honesty and the succinct way you summed up what many do. Out of desperation, many things are overlooked. Out of fear, blind eyes become the norm. Out of concern for our families and ourselves, we go along with the status quo. I mean no harm nor foul to you for expressing the truth, in fact much respect extended! Having said that, this is the problem. Why the masses continue to be treated unjust by the capriciousnes of the few. Whether through fear, ignorance or desperation, the authoritarians know, we will happily oblige and be pacified. We are then made to feel grateful for the crumbs dangled in front of us, followed by expected loyalty and unhealthy dependence. Since we teach people how to treat us, it is time to command the respect we deserve and stop acting out of fear and desperation. Until we do, the status quo will remain. Peace!
    lindarn likes this.
  7. Visit  Chin up profile page
    4
    Quote from kcmylorn
    Chin up,- thanks for clarifying and sharing- I too am a 50 something nurse and my nursing comrads are 60 something. Those were the ones I ran the post by with the same conclusion you all came up with. Any ideas how we nip this in the bud, what can we do to - I'm all ears for any suggestions you would offer. One of the nurses I spoke said age discrimination is very difficult to prove. What area are you in? I'm in the Philly Pa area- real city of brotherly love! One of my friends is a 60 something RN - LTC everything from staff nurse, MDS coordinator, to DON - months looking - can't find a job!!
    Hi! I am from Boston and until the last couple of years, did not think about age discrimination. I did not know it even existed. Boston, being very liberal, is also very subtle in it's discriminatory practices. Most times, until you are affected you believe all is well. Which brings me to awareness. We have to make this crime aware to everyone we come in contact with. My motto is, " each one teach one". I drive everyone crazy, but I tell everyone I know about age discrimination and make them tell someone. I have been doing activism like this for decades. I grew up at a time, when advocating was the norm. Since I care about others and have the personality suited for it, I do reach out daily. Last year at this time, I was passed over for a position I applied for and was told I had. The person who got the job, was a 20 year old, first year LPN. The job description- RN, 7 years supervisory exp., knowledge of state regs, JACHO, OBRA etc. Not only that, it was the floor I had worked on for five years. Anyway, I was approached by a 55 year old nurse who also applied for the position and had worked 20 years for the company and she too was passed over. This started me researching hiring demographics for my company. I was stunned. I also have two friends in their early sixties, who are walking medical encyclopedias, full of energy and the nicest folks i know. Both were forced to quit other institutions and have been unable to find work over 12-15 months respectively. All four of us filed complaints with the EEOC. Proving age discrimination is very hard, but the corporation settled with the 55 year old from my company as soon as they heard, "lawsuits". I on the other hand, left the company and will never take their blood money. Instead, I advocate. I have just convinced an organization to have free EEOC speaker conferences. Many dont realize they have a free outreach program. My ex husband has his own organization and I convinced him, to do the same. My goal is 100 companies, organizations and non profits by June 1, 2011.

    Sorry for going on and on. I could keep going, but....anyway, I see you advocating all over this board! You are bringing awareness to tens of thousands right here!!! I love reading your post! I would say, keep up the good work, but not needed. I can tell your heart is all over this. Peace!
    BigButtNurse, trixie333, lindarn, and 1 other like this.
  8. Visit  BabyLady profile page
    2
    Quote from roser13
    Bottom line: ask the thousands and thousands of newly NCLEX'ed RN's and LPN's (who have spent months and months sending out hundreds of resumes, hoping for a job - any job) if they would mind attaching a picture to their next resume. Just depends on how badly you want the job.
    Now, along these lines..would I REFUSE to send in a pic?

    Nope...I really wouldn't. Jobs are too hard to find for new grads right now to pick and choose and I will be the first to admit it.

    My only point was that a picture does have a huge potential for discrimination.

    Now, does that mean that ALL employers will use it for that? Of course not...they may simply want an easy way to go through applications and remember who they spoke with...but the potential is there.
    Mrs. SnowStormRN and lindarn like this.
  9. Visit  hiddencatRN profile page
    3
    Quote from Chin up
    Having said that, this is the problem. Why the masses continue to be treated unjust by the capriciousnes of the few. Whether through fear, ignorance or desperation, the authoritarians know, we will happily oblige and be pacified. We are then made to feel grateful for the crumbs dangled in front of us, followed by expected loyalty and unhealthy dependence. Since we teach people how to treat us, it is time to command the respect we deserve and stop acting out of fear and desperation. Until we do, the status quo will remain. Peace!
    I completely agree. I don't think it's something that can change by individual actions though, because as individuals we have limited power. Labor rights advances have always been due to collective, organized action, because while one individual's power is limited, a large group of individuals acting together are very powerful. This is the reason I'm pro-union and pro-collective bargaining.
    kcmylorn, Chin up, and lindarn like this.
  10. Visit  vegasmomma profile page
    0
    I have often wondered if adding things to my resume like "physically fit" or "able to lift 50 pounds over my head" or "able to run 5k in 20 minutes" would be a positive way to overcome the age discrimination and snap judgment that is inevitable at my age.
  11. Visit  FLmomof5 profile page
    2
    Like another poster, I am up there in age....49. I look mid-30s so in my case a pic would be advantageous. I am fit (128 lbs at 5'4").

    IMHO, I think it could be any number of reasons....age *could* be one. Although some may think race....I didn't see that in the nurses hired out of my graduating class....and we are in the south! I would think weight. Too thin and you aren't strong enough to move morbidly obese patients and most ultra-thins are more succeptible to minor illnesses. Too fat and you won't keep up and you will cost the facility in either workers comp claims or you will have obesity related illnesses. (This, IMHO, would be the perception, as inaccurate as it could be!)

    Also, age discrimination has been around for quite some time. My mother was a floor supervisor...Nursing Diploma, BS and MS in hospital administration. Her hospital "re-engineered", so "everyone" was "terminated" and had to re-apply for their positions (that had a different naming convention). My mother was told that she didn't qualify for her current position. The nurse they hired was a young ADN who was given so much time to get her BSN then MSN to keep it. That nurse was obviously cheaper. 35 yrs down the tubes. My mom was lucky in that she still qualified for her retirement. Two years later, they were begging her to come back. She laughed at them!
    vegasmomma and lindarn like this.
  12. Visit  BigButtNurse profile page
    1
    The next time you're asked to submit a photo (if they haven't seen you in person), just send in a picture of Cindy Crawford when she was in her late 20's. That will get the job done!!!!
    lindarn likes this.

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