Does god make mistakes?

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Chapis

400 Posts

Specializes in interested in NICU!!.

"If God were perfect, then why allow a woman with 8 babies to have more? Why allow the babies to suffer? Why allow people to be so vain that it causes pollution and suffering. Why make us the way we are?"

Since I believe in the Bible, and the Bible says God is perfect-I believe it-without any doubt. You asked why does God 'allow' babies to suffer, people to be so vain. . .etc. . . and my answer is found on the Bible-(to which, I believe what the Bible says), which God gave us the 'Free Will". Finally-we choose to be who we are and how we act or react to situations, I believe we shape ourselves with the help of God, or those that do not believe in God, they shape themselves in their own 'belief'. Anyhow, I don't want my answer to be taken-rude-was not meant that way, just wanted to answer the questions you had on your post.

Specializes in LTC, CPR instructor, First aid instructor..
Agrippa said:
This was well written and touching.

As someone mentioned before, this does presume the existence of God. To me, it seems as if the issues you faced in this experience is one that has been questioned from the beginning of christian thought.

How can a just, all loving, all powerful God allow such suffering? How can he let bad things happen to good people & vice versa? This is a question that I struggle with almost daily.

I believe God does allow these things to happen to teach us things. For instance: Where would we be in healthcare today if not for people who are born with disabilities? We have come very far in healthcare, due to babies being born with heart defects, children with cancer, people born with chromosomal defects, birth defects of all kinds, and autoimmune diseases as well.

Specializes in LTC, CPR instructor, First aid instructor..
amateur said:
i think that God gives us these 'challenges' and its up to us to react from it. so its our fault if we commit mistakes and not Him, if we do the right one then we should be congratulated... if no one will, its easy ---- flex the elbow of your right hand... then hold that elbow with your left hand and then tap your own left shoulder. there you will feel better, PROMISE. i do it all the time.:lol2::D

Love it! :yeah:

CountyRat

323 Posts

Specializes in Wilderness Medicine, ICU, Adult Ed..

agrippa asked: "how can a just, all loving, all powerful god allow such suffering? how can he let bad things happen to good people & vice versa? this is a question that i struggle with almost daily."

we all struggle with it, agrippa. our entire lives are struggles, from the day we are born (without knowing why we were born) to the day we die (without knowing why we must die.) and between those two moments, we wonder, "why am i here? would it matter if i wasn't?"

the fact that we ask questions that we cannot answer is not evidence for or against the existence of god, it is merely a revelation of what it means to be human.

agrippa, you presented us with a very thoughtful question, one that deserves a sincere response. may i attempt to offer you a response? as with your question, i cannot give you a pat answer to the question that i pose, but i have found it helpful to wrestle with it, and perhaps you will too:

in light of how cruelly we treat each other, how casually we ignore the needy, how cavalierly we take for granted the gift of life that we enjoy for so short a time, how can a just god allow us the pleasures, comforts, companionship, and satisfactions of the life that he has given us, and that we so often take for granted and enjoy without showing any gratitude?

i am not a very smart man, and i am certainly not a good man, so my answer to the question will be no more valuable than anyone else’s. however, it helps me to remember that, every day of my life, i enjoy more and better than i deserve, and that if an all-powerful god did deal out justice this afternoon, i would be found worthy of punishment, just like those "other" people that i too easily look down my nose at (i say it to my shame, but it is true whether i admit it or not).

he is there, and he is good. so good that he suffers our disrespect, and forgives our ignoring him and disobeying him for the sake of jesus christ his son.

Specializes in LTC, CPR instructor, First aid instructor..
DaFreak71 said:
I guess ultimately this question presumes that there is a God. I think it's great that in your case the patient and mom showed signs of acknowledging each other though.

I had a pt who was born perfectly healthy but aspirated on a balloon when he was three years old. He can't smile, can't make noises, doesn't recognize anyone, has uncontrollable spasms, contractures up the wazzoo, and a family situation that made it clear he was a mere disability paycheck. I took care of him in his home and never saw parental interaction aside from the few times the pt was yelled at. Parent even told me not to suction his trach often because if the nurses paid too much attention to the pt "he would produce secretions just to get attention". Ummm...this is an individual with ZERO thinking abilities and of course....the pt is a DNR.

I think in this case (assuming there is a God) God didn't make a mistake...the parent did by not being as vigiliant in supervising around balloons. The other mistake was to keep him a DNR (he's almost 30 now). That's my opinion.

But in the case where the pt is not even dealt with warmly by the parents and relies on 16 hours a day of nursing care in the home while the parent watches TV...I kept asking myself "What is the point of all of this"? I did my best to take care of the pt (read to the pt, stroke the pts forehead, talk to pt during my shift, etc) but wow...it was hard and try as I might...I could not find any objective or subjective quality of life for this poor pt.

just my :twocents:

How sad to see this person rejected by his parents. IMHO, if they feel this way toward their son. And you bet the parent was to blame. Poor son. Personally, I hope God does remove his suffering if he is still alive. Hopefully God was merciful and took him out of that miserable environment.:cry:

Specializes in Cardiac.
Franemtnurse said:
How sad to see this person rejected by his parents. IMHO, if they feel this way toward their son. And you bet the parent was to blame. Poor son. Personally, I hope God does remove his suffering if he is still alive. Hopefully God was merciful and took him out of that miserable environment.:cry:

No, God did not remove him from that environment. He didn't remove his suffering. He wasn't merciful. The poster said he is in his 30's now. So, that's 30 years of misery and suffering.

And all so someone could learn something?

CountyRat

323 Posts

Specializes in Wilderness Medicine, ICU, Adult Ed..
cardiacrn2006 said:
if god were perfect, then why allow a woman with 8 babies to have more? why allow the babies to suffer? why allow people to be so vain that it causes pollution and suffering. why make us the way we are?

i think that the op wrote that the woman had been pregnant 8 times, but had only two live births. this invites an interesting question. you don't believe there is a perfect god because there is evil in the world (and i agree with you about there being evil in the world) and you obviously value goodness (since you speak ill of suffering and pollution, you must believe there is such a thing as good since if there is no good and bad, causing suffering and polluting cannot be bad, so there is nothing to complain about (and again i agree with you). then tell me, which is good and which is bad:

was the loss of six out of eight pregnancies good (because six people were spared the misery of life in an imperfect, suffering world) or bad (because six lives never experienced the joys life offers)? which of those two outcomes would be consistent with a good and merciful god, as opposed to the impersonal, uncaring cosmos that i think you are offering as an alternative to god?

Specializes in LTC, CPR instructor, First aid instructor..
cardiacRN2006 said:
No, God did not remove him from that environment. He didn't remove his suffering. He wasn't merciful. The poster said he is in his 30's now. So, that's 30 years of misery and suffering.

And all so someone could learn something?

Sometimes God does allow suffering a long time. I should know. I have been ill most of my life, and am now disabled. I do believe everything happens for a reason. If children weren't abused in our societies, there would be no need for child protective services. The same for adult protective services. If you read a thread posted a couple weeks ago by flightnurse titled, "I Cried Today," you may understand what I'm talking about here.

MaritesaRN

427 Posts

Specializes in psychiatric, UR analyst, fraud, DME,MedB.
Franemtnurse said:
Agrippa said:
This was well written and touching.

As someone mentioned before, this does presume the existence of God. To me, it seems as if the issues you faced in this experience is one that has been questioned from the beginning of christian thought.

How can a just, all loving, all powerful God allow such suffering? How can he let bad things happen to good people & vice versa? This is a question that I struggle with almost daily.

I believe God does allow these things to happen to teach us things. For instance: Where would we be in healthcare today if not for people who are born with disabilities? We have come very far in healthcare, due to babies being born with heart defects, children with cancer, people born with chromosomal defects, birth defects of all kinds, and autoimmune diseases as well.

There are days I feel that God is so far away....but then realizing that I was the one who walked and strayed far from Him...... I believe in God...but there are days I stumble w/ my trust and faith.......but all I have to do is to remember the sacrifice He gave us. He must love us so much to send His only beloved son to die for people who do not even know Him or appreciate Him !!! No way I will sacrifice my son or daughter for a bunch of ungrateful people !!!! .............but then....... He is God and I 'm not and not capable to give or even understand this unselfish sacrifice...... someday I would like to have the privilege to understand and comprehend all this.............our mind may be too small to comprehend such a big thing to understand.

Specializes in LTC, CPR instructor, First aid instructor..
maritesa said:

There are days I feel that God is so far away....but then realizing that I was the one who walked and strayed far from Him...... I believe in God...but there are days I stumble w/ my trust and faith.......but all I have to do is to remember the sacrifice He gave us. He must love us so much to send His only beloved son to die for people who do not even know Him or appreciate Him !!! No way I will sacrifice my son or daughter for a bunch of ungrateful people !!!! .............but then....... He is God and I 'm not and not capable to give or even understand this unselfish sacrifice...... someday I would like to have the privilege to understand and comprehend all this.............our mind may be too small to comprehend such a big thing to understand.

You are so right my dear.

Specializes in Cardiac.
countyrat said:

I think that the op wrote that the woman had been pregnant 8 times, but had only two live births. This invites an interesting question. You don't believe there is a perfect god because there is evil in the world (and I agree with you about there being evil in the world) and you obviously value goodness (since you speak ill of suffering and pollution, you must believe there is such a thing as good since if there is no good and bad, causing suffering and polluting cannot be bad, so there is nothing to complain about (and again I agree with you). Then tell me, which is good and which is bad:

Was the loss of six out of eight pregnancies good (because six people were spared the misery of life in an imperfect, suffering world) or bad (because six lives never experienced the joys life offers)? Which of those two outcomes would be consistent with a good and merciful god, as opposed to the impersonal, uncaring cosmos that I think you are offering as an alternative to god?

Well, I was obviously responding to something else, not to someone who experienced 6 miscarriages.

bigrusskcmo said:
The original post said the mom had 8 other children. when is enough enough. now who suffers. the baby.

So what's right, good, or bad?

Why do I have to offer an alternative to god? Why is that my job?

I'm merely saying, how on earth is a perfect god someone who allows the things he allows?

And while the op story had 6 miscarriages, still borns, etc, some crack ****** is spitting out kids that are unwanted, uncared for, and probably being abused, starved or mistreated.

Who learns from that? I mean, really?

Do you know what I've learned from my battle from infertility? I didn't learn anything good, that's for damn sure. I didn't learn compassion or kindness. Nope. That's not what that battle taught me.

I learned bitterness. But, I suppose that will be described as 'my choice' or 'my fault' or 'man's fault' or pollution, or vanity, etc, etc.

Whatever it takes to justify an all powerful, kind god. Let's blame the world, but allow a god that allows suffering, cruelty, pain, etc..All to teach us something! How perfect!

Specializes in Cardiac.
Franemtnurse said:
Sometimes God does allow suffering a long time. I should know. I have been ill most of my life, and am now disabled. I do believe everything happens for a reason. If children weren't abused in our societies, there would be no need for child protective services. The same for adult protective services. If you read a thread posted a couple weeks ago by flightnurse titled, "I Cried Today," you may understand what I'm talking about here.

I read the thread. I know what it's talking about.

If God didn't allow abuse of children, then we wouldn't need CPS. Why allow abuse so that we can have a govt agency to protect children? Why not just protect children? Why not?

Besides, CPS barely protects children.