Does God Make Mistakes? - page 4

I looked up at the doctor across the crib who is still hovering over him and checking his ventilator and trachea. Wildly he flailed as the doctor touched his abdomen. I tried to calm him by holding... Read More

  1. Visit  CountyRat} profile page
    5
    agrippa asked: "how can a just, all loving, all powerful god allow such suffering? how can he let bad things happen to good people & vice versa? this is a question that i struggle with almost daily."

    we all struggle with it, agrippa. our entire lives are struggles, from the day we are born (without knowing why we were born) to the day we die (without knowing why we must die.) and between those two moments, we wonder, "why am i here? would it matter if i wasn't?"

    the fact that we ask questions that we cannot answer is not evidence for or against the existence of god, it is merely a revelation of what it means to be human.

    agrippa, you presented us with a very thoughtful question, one that deserves a sincere response. may i attempt to offer you a response? as with your question, i cannot give you a pat answer to the question that i pose, but i have found it helpful to wrestle with it, and perhaps you will too:

    in light of how cruelly we treat each other, how casually we ignore the needy, how cavalierly we take for granted the gift of life that we enjoy for so short a time, how can a just god allow us the pleasures, comforts, companionship, and satisfactions of the life that he has given us, and that we so often take for granted and enjoy without showing any gratitude?

    i am not a very smart man, and i am certainly not a good man, so my answer to the question will be no more valuable than anyone else’s. however, it helps me to remember that, every day of my life, i enjoy more and better than i deserve, and that if an all-powerful god did deal out justice this afternoon, i would be found worthy of punishment, just like those "other" people that i too easily look down my nose at (i say it to my shame, but it is true whether i admit it or not).

    he is there, and he is good. so good that he suffers our disrespect, and forgives our ignoring him and disobeying him for the sake of jesus christ his son.
    Last edit by CountyRat on Jul 22, '09 : Reason: syntax error
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  3. Visit  FranEMTnurse} profile page
    0
    Quote from DaFreak71
    I guess ultimately this question presumes that there is a God. I think it's great that in your case the patient and mom showed signs of acknowledging each other though.

    I had a pt who was born perfectly healthy but aspirated on a balloon when he was three years old. He can't smile, can't make noises, doesn't recognize anyone, has uncontrollable spasms, contractures up the wazzoo, and a family situation that made it clear he was a mere disability paycheck. I took care of him in his home and never saw parental interaction aside from the few times the pt was yelled at. Parent even told me not to suction his trach often because if the nurses paid too much attention to the pt "he would produce secretions just to get attention". Ummm...this is an individual with ZERO thinking abilities and of course....the pt is a DNR.

    I think in this case (assuming there is a God) God didn't make a mistake...the parent did by not being as vigiliant in supervising around balloons. The other mistake was to keep him a DNR (he's almost 30 now). That's my opinion.

    But in the case where the pt is not even dealt with warmly by the parents and relies on 16 hours a day of nursing care in the home while the parent watches TV...I kept asking myself "What is the point of all of this"? I did my best to take care of the pt (read to the pt, stroke the pts forehead, talk to pt during my shift, etc) but wow...it was hard and try as I might...I could not find any objective or subjective quality of life for this poor pt.

    just my
    How sad to see this person rejected by his parents. IMHO, if they feel this way toward their son. And you bet the parent was to blame. Poor son. Personally, I hope God does remove his suffering if he is still alive. Hopefully God was merciful and took him out of that miserable environment.
  4. Visit  cardiacRN2006} profile page
    0
    Quote from Franemtnurse
    How sad to see this person rejected by his parents. IMHO, if they feel this way toward their son. And you bet the parent was to blame. Poor son. Personally, I hope God does remove his suffering if he is still alive. Hopefully God was merciful and took him out of that miserable environment.

    No, God did not remove him from that environment. He didn't remove his suffering. He wasn't merciful. The poster said he is in his 30's now. So, that's 30 years of misery and suffering.

    And all so someone could learn something?
  5. Visit  CountyRat} profile page
    3
    Quote from cardiacrn2006
    if god were perfect, then why allow a woman with 8 babies to have more? why allow the babies to suffer? why allow people to be so vain that it causes pollution and suffering. why make us the way we are?
    i think that the op wrote that the woman had been pregnant 8 times, but had only two live births. this invites an interesting question. you don't believe there is a perfect god because there is evil in the world (and i agree with you about there being evil in the world) and you obviously value goodness (since you speak ill of suffering and pollution, you must believe there is such a thing as good since if there is no good and bad, causing suffering and polluting cannot be bad, so there is nothing to complain about (and again i agree with you). then tell me, which is good and which is bad:

    was the loss of six out of eight pregnancies good (because six people were spared the misery of life in an imperfect, suffering world) or bad (because six lives never experienced the joys life offers)? which of those two outcomes would be consistent with a good and merciful god, as opposed to the impersonal, uncaring cosmos that i think you are offering as an alternative to god?
  6. Visit  FranEMTnurse} profile page
    0
    Quote from cardiacRN2006
    No, God did not remove him from that environment. He didn't remove his suffering. He wasn't merciful. The poster said he is in his 30's now. So, that's 30 years of misery and suffering.

    And all so someone could learn something?
    Sometimes God does allow suffering a long time. I should know. I have been ill most of my life, and am now disabled. I do believe everything happens for a reason. If children weren't abused in our societies, there would be no need for child protective services. The same for adult protective services. If you read a thread posted a couple weeks ago by flightnurse titled, "I Cried Today," you may understand what I'm talking about here.
  7. Visit  MaritesaRN} profile page
    7
    [quote=Franemtnurse;3759494]
    Quote from Agrippa
    This was well written and touching.

    As someone mentioned before, this does presume the existence of God. To me, it seems as if the issues you faced in this experience is one that has been questioned from the beginning of christian thought.

    How can a just, all loving, all powerful God allow such suffering? How can he let bad things happen to good people & vice versa? This is a question that I struggle with almost daily.
    tquote]I believe God does allow these things to happen to teach us things. For instance: Where would we be in healthcare today if not for people who are born with disabilities? We have come very far in healthcare, due to babies being born with heart defects, children with cancer, people born with chromosomal defects, birth defects of all kinds, and autoimmune diseases as well.

    :heartbeatThere are days I feel that God is so far away....but then realizing that I was the one who walked and strayed far from Him...... I believe in God...but there are days I stumble w/ my trust and faith.......but all I have to do is to remember the sacrifice He gave us. He must love us so much to send His only beloved son to die for people who do not even know Him or appreciate Him !!! No way I will sacrifice my son or daughter for a bunch of ungrateful people !!!! .............but then....... He is God and I 'm not and not capable to give or even understand this unselfish sacrifice...... someday I would like to have the privilege to understand and comprehend all this.............our mind may be too small to comprehend such a big thing to understand.
  8. Visit  FranEMTnurse} profile page
    2
    [quote=maritesa;3759701]
    Quote from Franemtnurse


    :heartbeatThere are days I feel that God is so far away....but then realizing that I was the one who walked and strayed far from Him...... I believe in God...but there are days I stumble w/ my trust and faith.......but all I have to do is to remember the sacrifice He gave us. He must love us so much to send His only beloved son to die for people who do not even know Him or appreciate Him !!! No way I will sacrifice my son or daughter for a bunch of ungrateful people !!!! .............but then....... He is God and I 'm not and not capable to give or even understand this unselfish sacrifice...... someday I would like to have the privilege to understand and comprehend all this.............our mind may be too small to comprehend such a big thing to understand.
    You are so right my dear.
  9. Visit  cardiacRN2006} profile page
    1
    Quote from countyrat

    i think that the op wrote that the woman had been pregnant 8 times, but had only two live births. this invites an interesting question. you don't believe there is a perfect god because there is evil in the world (and i agree with you about there being evil in the world) and you obviously value goodness (since you speak ill of suffering and pollution, you must believe there is such a thing as good since if there is no good and bad, causing suffering and polluting cannot be bad, so there is nothing to complain about (and again i agree with you). then tell me, which is good and which is bad:

    was the loss of six out of eight pregnancies good (because six people were spared the misery of life in an imperfect, suffering world) or bad (because six lives never experienced the joys life offers)? which of those two outcomes would be consistent with a good and merciful god, as opposed to the impersonal, uncaring cosmos that i think you are offering as an alternative to god?
    well, i was obviously responding to something else, not to someone who experienced 6 miscarriages.

    Quote from bigrusskcmo
    the original post said the mom had 8 other children. when is enough enough. now who suffers. the baby.

    so what's right, good, or bad?
    why do i have to offer an alternative to god? why is that my job?
    i'm mearly saying, how on earth is a perfect god someone who allows the things he allows?

    and while the op story had 6 miscarriages, still borns, etc, some crack ****** is spitting out kids that are unwanted, uncared for, and probably being abused, starved or mistreated.

    who learns from that? i mean, really?


    do you know what i've learned from my battle from infertility? i didn't learn anything good, that's for damn sure. i didn't learn compassion or kindness. nope. that's not what that battle taught me.

    i learned bitterness. but, i suppose that will be described as 'my choice' or 'my fault' or 'man's fault' or pollution, or vanity, etc, etc.

    whatever it takes to justify an all powerful, kind god. let's blame the world, but allow a god that allows suffering, cruelty, pain, etc..all to teach us something! how perfect!
    Last edit by Silverdragon102 on Jul 22, '09 : Reason: changed to all ******
    nitenite likes this.
  10. Visit  cardiacRN2006} profile page
    0
    Quote from Franemtnurse
    Sometimes God does allow suffering a long time. I should know. I have been ill most of my life, and am now disabled. I do believe everything happens for a reason. If children weren't abused in our societies, there would be no need for child protective services. The same for adult protective services. If you read a thread posted a couple weeks ago by flightnurse titled, "I Cried Today," you may understand what I'm talking about here.

    I read the thread. I know what it's talking about.
    If God didn't allow abuse of children, then we wouldn't need CPS. Why allow abuse so that we can have a govt agency to protect children? Why not just protect children? Why not?


    Besides, CPS barely protects children.
  11. Visit  Chapis} profile page
    0
    cardiacrn2006-can i ask you something that was not clear to me?

    do you believe there's not a god? or you do believe there is a god that is to blame for all this? :uhoh21:
  12. Visit  cardiacRN2006} profile page
    1
    What does it matter what I believe?


    Is it going to change anything? Why do I HAVE to believe one way or another? What if I believe neither options? What if I believe both?

    Doesnt' matter.

    This world speaks for itself.
    Agrippa likes this.
  13. Visit  Chapis} profile page
    0
    Sorry, just curious, as with your posts it wasn't clear to me which way you were leaning on, so that's why I asked.
  14. Visit  PatricParamedic} profile page
    2
    I think those of us with life science in our backgrounds, ought have no problem recognizing there certainly are biological errors, and they are spawned by the millions everyday of the year.

    Natural flaws can be seen in cornfields (conjoined cobs are about 1:100,000) as well as that certain, well-known actress with 12 toes. (Yes, she uses foot-doubles when needed)

    Does God Make Mistakes is truly a touching story, and no right-thinking one of us could rightly condescend to the nurse who authored it: That is an honest question and it comes from the heart.

    I've reached the point after 30 years where I believe this: The Lord started the ball rolling, and as the Creator, he or she is the Producer of our movie. But he/she leaves the Direction & the Acting, the Soundtrack & the Lyrics, the Successes & the Outtakes - to us.

    After 12,200 emergency patient tragedies, I see no sign whatsoever of Divine intervention. I see humanity fumbling along, trying to make sense of it all. Heaven & Hell? Sure. They are right here with us. Likely not some invisible Nirvana in the sky.
    limestone and MaritesaRN like this.


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