BSN minimum requirement

Sue Wernet · Mar 8, 2001

Originally posted by Lburns:
It is my firm belief that the minimum requirement for nursing should be a BSN. We want to be accepted as a profession, yet we allow 2 year programs to dominate the field. Now I went to a 2 year program and will be finishing my BSN this semester. My school did a great job preparing me for "tasks" of nursing, but oh, it is so much more than that. Many other countries have moved or are moving towards 4yr degree minimums and the US needs to stay atop in this competative field. The nursing shortage will not always be here and it is to your advantage to get your degree now. The 2 yr programs will make a great footstep in the years to come, but the 4yr degree will become the RNs of the future. As nurses move into the 21st century we need to pull together to demonstrate our power as a profession, the only way to do this is to have strong, educated nurses in not just bedside tasks but critically thinking, politics, research and community health. Think about it, comments welcome.

Hi. I just reread what I just submitted. I meant tosay that many diploma Rns and AD Rn's go back to school for their BSNs and/or MSNs to try to open doors toward better paying less stressful nurse jobs and in turn improve the quality of their lives and of their immediate families lives (that they are providing an income for).

Maybe that will make my post clearer.

What do you think about this?

Sue Wernet · Mar 8, 2001

Originally posted by Lburns:
It is my firm belief that the minimum requirement for nursing should be a BSN. We want to be accepted as a profession, yet we allow 2 year programs to dominate the field. Now I went to a 2 year program and will be finishing my BSN this semester. My school did a great job preparing me for "tasks" of nursing, but oh, it is so much more than that. Many other countries have moved or are moving towards 4yr degree minimums and the US needs to stay atop in this competative field. The nursing shortage will not always be here and it is to your advantage to get your degree now. The 2 yr programs will make a great footstep in the years to come, but the 4yr degree will become the RNs of the future. As nurses move into the 21st century we need to pull together to demonstrate our power as a profession, the only way to do this is to have strong, educated nurses in not just bedside tasks but critically thinking, politics, research and community health. Think about it, comments welcome.

Hi. I just reread what I just submitted. I meant tosay that many diploma Rns and AD Rn's go back to school for their BSNs and/or MSNs to try to open doors toward better paying less stressful nurse jobs and in turn improve the quality of their lives and of their immediate families lives (that they are providing an income for).

Maybe that will make my post clearer.

What do you think about this?

FamilymanRNBSN L/D · Mar 8, 2001

Originally posted by sheripa:
Get a life and eat ****!! Ha Ha.

I think maybe there has been some miss understanding on my part. I was not responding to you but rather to Tim-gn or whatever his name is in your deffence. I agree with you completely, please reread my posting (both postings). My first posting is general but basically it agrees with your statements about our proffession. The second statement was in regards to the comments tim made about you being rpoud to be the first in your family, or something just plain ignorant...I didn't appreciate his shallow exchange and I know you didn't need me to deffend you or anything, but the guy was out of line an I could not stand the comments he made. Hope I bump into on the friendly side of things.

FamilymanRNBSN L/D · Mar 8, 2001

Originally posted by sheripa:
Get a life and eat ****!! Ha Ha.

I think maybe there has been some miss understanding on my part. I was not responding to you but rather to Tim-gn or whatever his name is in your deffence. I agree with you completely, please reread my posting (both postings). My first posting is general but basically it agrees with your statements about our proffession. The second statement was in regards to the comments tim made about you being rpoud to be the first in your family, or something just plain ignorant...I didn't appreciate his shallow exchange and I know you didn't need me to deffend you or anything, but the guy was out of line an I could not stand the comments he made. Hope I bump into on the friendly side of things.

timonrn · Mar 8, 2001

It all boils down to this: Give me a good nurse anytime to back me up while my pt is laying on the floor bleeding out from a GI bleed, or having massive chest pains--I don't care if you are an LPN, ADN, BSN or a NA--If you are competent and helpful--that's what I need!! I'll sort out the credentials later!! (anyone who works charge knows what I am talking about). PS-I have a BSN and I'm tired of the remarks I hear all the time from people who think that it was a waste of education!! It is only a waste if you don't continue to make yourself a better nurse thru your education--don't stop at ADN or BSN--go and get BLS certified, then ACLS, PALS etcetc!! Our higher accuity pts need us to be better trained beyond basic nursing skills.

timonrn · Mar 8, 2001

It all boils down to this: Give me a good nurse anytime to back me up while my pt is laying on the floor bleeding out from a GI bleed, or having massive chest pains--I don't care if you are an LPN, ADN, BSN or a NA--If you are competent and helpful--that's what I need!! I'll sort out the credentials later!! (anyone who works charge knows what I am talking about). PS-I have a BSN and I'm tired of the remarks I hear all the time from people who think that it was a waste of education!! It is only a waste if you don't continue to make yourself a better nurse thru your education--don't stop at ADN or BSN--go and get BLS certified, then ACLS, PALS etcetc!! Our higher accuity pts need us to be better trained beyond basic nursing skills.

emtrn2k1 · Mar 8, 2001

"AMen!!!!!!!". Instead of discussing how differently each one prepares a better nurse, whether to think or to 'be at the bedside'--why don't we all try to stregthen the profession and learn from each other. If we divide ourselves--how can we expect others to respect us as a profession. Remember a house divided against itself cannot stand--promote the profession, lets shoot for education promotion not necessarily letters behind a name. Question, how many states have mandatory education requirements--if so basic info.

Thanks

Nurses Rule!!!

emtrn2k1 · Mar 8, 2001

"AMen!!!!!!!". Instead of discussing how differently each one prepares a better nurse, whether to think or to 'be at the bedside'--why don't we all try to stregthen the profession and learn from each other. If we divide ourselves--how can we expect others to respect us as a profession. Remember a house divided against itself cannot stand--promote the profession, lets shoot for education promotion not necessarily letters behind a name. Question, how many states have mandatory education requirements--if so basic info.

Thanks

Nurses Rule!!!

emtrn2k1 · Mar 8, 2001

GREAT CRITICAL THINKING GLORIA- NOW DID YOU HAVE TO HAVE YOUR BSN TO THINK OF THAT--OR DOes it come natural--is that possible that some people just have a natural ability to connect things without having someone put a 'real degree' behind their name --as opposed to a AS (must not be a real degree-whaddya think--sorry but some of this stuff just infuriates me--particularly the point that everyone wants a quick way out--I didn't want a quick way out--I wanted to be a nurse. I fully intend to get my BSN not because I don't want to do the care but because I want success for myself. Nothing more, I don't want to be a clinical coordinator--I'm too much of a people person. But I also want to be able to feed my children while I am pursuing my self-improvement. Nurses UNITE--support each other, and watch the profession grow. Bicker and watch it FALL even further apart.

Originally posted by Brownms46:
Bickering...B****ing?? I think not! Even though I totally disagreed with the original poster, I have enjoyed reading the posts that sprang from it. The following is a quote from one I truly enjoyed..."I do believe that BSN should be the level of entry for those reasons but mostly because it allows an individual nurse to easily walk forward from the bedside into other roles when (or if) she tires of the role that the ADN/diploma program so aptly prepares their students for"

This post validated my original post! "Allows the individual nurse to easily walk FORWARD FROM THE BEDSIDE into OTHER ROLES when(or if)she TIRES of the role that the ADN/diploma program so aptly prepares their students for" Now lets see if my uneducated tired old brain can grasp this concept. Now tell me if I get it wrong now. So the ADN/diploma programs aptly prepare their students for...umm now let me see here...nursing?? Hold on..I'll get it ...if those programs prepare them to nurse at the bedside...umm where does the BSN/MSN programs prepare you to work?? Hmmm..must NOT be at the bedside..eh? Now..let me go even further here...oooh this means really stretching my brain matter ...hold on...neurons are firing...HEY..I get it. Get you ADN....go on to get your BSN/MSN...so you DON'T have to work at the bedside anymore...is that it??? OOOhhh ok...so now...if having your BSN should be the entry level to nursing...and all the BSN as getting away from the bedside...and there are no other levels of nursing...ummm...now let me see here.....WHO IS AT THE BEDSIDE??
OOh don't tell me...IT's THE NEW GRADS!!! Now won't that increase superlative patient care. Yeah ...right!

Gloria

emtrn2k1 · Mar 8, 2001

GREAT CRITICAL THINKING GLORIA- NOW DID YOU HAVE TO HAVE YOUR BSN TO THINK OF THAT--OR DOes it come natural--is that possible that some people just have a natural ability to connect things without having someone put a 'real degree' behind their name --as opposed to a AS (must not be a real degree-whaddya think--sorry but some of this stuff just infuriates me--particularly the point that everyone wants a quick way out--I didn't want a quick way out--I wanted to be a nurse. I fully intend to get my BSN not because I don't want to do the care but because I want success for myself. Nothing more, I don't want to be a clinical coordinator--I'm too much of a people person. But I also want to be able to feed my children while I am pursuing my self-improvement. Nurses UNITE--support each other, and watch the profession grow. Bicker and watch it FALL even further apart.

Originally posted by Brownms46:
Bickering...B****ing?? I think not! Even though I totally disagreed with the original poster, I have enjoyed reading the posts that sprang from it. The following is a quote from one I truly enjoyed..."I do believe that BSN should be the level of entry for those reasons but mostly because it allows an individual nurse to easily walk forward from the bedside into other roles when (or if) she tires of the role that the ADN/diploma program so aptly prepares their students for"

This post validated my original post! "Allows the individual nurse to easily walk FORWARD FROM THE BEDSIDE into OTHER ROLES when(or if)she TIRES of the role that the ADN/diploma program so aptly prepares their students for" Now lets see if my uneducated tired old brain can grasp this concept. Now tell me if I get it wrong now. So the ADN/diploma programs aptly prepare their students for...umm now let me see here...nursing?? Hold on..I'll get it ...if those programs prepare them to nurse at the bedside...umm where does the BSN/MSN programs prepare you to work?? Hmmm..must NOT be at the bedside..eh? Now..let me go even further here...oooh this means really stretching my brain matter ...hold on...neurons are firing...HEY..I get it. Get you ADN....go on to get your BSN/MSN...so you DON'T have to work at the bedside anymore...is that it??? OOOhhh ok...so now...if having your BSN should be the entry level to nursing...and all the BSN as getting away from the bedside...and there are no other levels of nursing...ummm...now let me see here.....WHO IS AT THE BEDSIDE??
OOh don't tell me...IT's THE NEW GRADS!!! Now won't that increase superlative patient care. Yeah ...right!

Gloria

emtrn2k1 · Mar 8, 2001

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE READ THIS POST__IT IS LONG BUT WORTH IT!!!!!!!!!

Let's hit on this issue--Docs go to what 8 years of school, and then internship and all that hoopla--how about this . . . Doc prescribes x med for y pt. Z nurse notes that x med is contraindicated and calls d. dr. who then gives another med, or asks z nurse what she thinks--depending on if you are in a teaching hospital or not. Now ask a NP to prescribe a med, I'll bet you run into much less occurance of this happening, because generally NPs have practiced, and worked in nursing field and are more conscientious. Further, lets look at PA's. They go to school for 1/2 the time as a doc, but make twice the money as an RN--what is wrong with this picture. Our profession is falling to pieces because we let it. My original post said that we would be cutting our noses off to spite our faces--that is so true, right now we can't afford to make BSN the minimum requirement. I got my AD so I could support my family while I improve my own education. Period. I have every desire to obtain my BSN, MSN and whatever I might want to pursue after that. I am a member of multiple organizations, and plan to become certified in multiple related specialties. I am excited!!!!! We should encourage every one to want to be. First lets encourage mandatory education credits nationwide, or worldwide-- lets start by pulling ourselves up and trudging on faster and harder than any other profession has done before. Let us not only demand higher wages, but show the intelligence and quality that prove we are professionals. Let's stop eating our young, and stabbing each other in the back. Nurses unfortunately have an insatiable need to degrade one another--not all - generalization there. If you give personality testing to nurses across the board, there will be variations, but a general concensus emerges that is caring, supportive, people sometimes needy and co-dependent, sometimes independent. There is a commonality among us that we want to help. PERIOD. Let's help each other, ourselves, and the profession. FIRST LET'S BE PROFESSIONAL!!!!! Maybe now is not the time to make entry level BSN--there is too much demand. But we can start by making education mandatory. We can start by emailing, writing, calling (whatever)our legislators and having our voice heard. We can join together, unite and begin to revamp this profession that was once an unacceptable choice for a woman of knowledge--anybody who has read the history of Florence Nightingale will find this-- Is this what we want others to see of us--fortunately this is a nurses website, but anybody can read. How many of you tell your kids to STOP FIGHTING. . .well, my point exactly. Can't we just all get along--I know that is colloquial--but isn't it true. To Ms. Burns AMEN to you for wanting to improve the profession. Let's go for it!!!!!

Originally posted by fergus51:
Is anyone else getting depressed about how we talk to eachother? I think the way the insults are flying on this board goes to show you that NOTHING will be able to unite all nurses. If we ALL had BSNs I am sure we would argue about which program prepared us more.

I do believe a nurse is a nurse because we all get the basic knowledge and specialization occurs after graduation anyways. And as for the number of years doctors go to school: find out what they studied too. A person can go to med school here after studying three years of anything along with about 4 or 5 prereqs. I know a doctor who took journalism so he only studied medicine for 3 years. But I NEVER hear other doctors putting him down. Infighting seems to be a nursing specialty nowadays and it's one area that sure doesn't require an advanced degree.

I got my BSN, but I don't think that makes me super nurse and I don't think it makes me a snobby ***** either. It was what was right for me and that's all that mattered.

emtrn2k1 · Mar 8, 2001

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE READ THIS POST__IT IS LONG BUT WORTH IT!!!!!!!!!

Let's hit on this issue--Docs go to what 8 years of school, and then internship and all that hoopla--how about this . . . Doc prescribes x med for y pt. Z nurse notes that x med is contraindicated and calls d. dr. who then gives another med, or asks z nurse what she thinks--depending on if you are in a teaching hospital or not. Now ask a NP to prescribe a med, I'll bet you run into much less occurance of this happening, because generally NPs have practiced, and worked in nursing field and are more conscientious. Further, lets look at PA's. They go to school for 1/2 the time as a doc, but make twice the money as an RN--what is wrong with this picture. Our profession is falling to pieces because we let it. My original post said that we would be cutting our noses off to spite our faces--that is so true, right now we can't afford to make BSN the minimum requirement. I got my AD so I could support my family while I improve my own education. Period. I have every desire to obtain my BSN, MSN and whatever I might want to pursue after that. I am a member of multiple organizations, and plan to become certified in multiple related specialties. I am excited!!!!! We should encourage every one to want to be. First lets encourage mandatory education credits nationwide, or worldwide-- lets start by pulling ourselves up and trudging on faster and harder than any other profession has done before. Let us not only demand higher wages, but show the intelligence and quality that prove we are professionals. Let's stop eating our young, and stabbing each other in the back. Nurses unfortunately have an insatiable need to degrade one another--not all - generalization there. If you give personality testing to nurses across the board, there will be variations, but a general concensus emerges that is caring, supportive, people sometimes needy and co-dependent, sometimes independent. There is a commonality among us that we want to help. PERIOD. Let's help each other, ourselves, and the profession. FIRST LET'S BE PROFESSIONAL!!!!! Maybe now is not the time to make entry level BSN--there is too much demand. But we can start by making education mandatory. We can start by emailing, writing, calling (whatever)our legislators and having our voice heard. We can join together, unite and begin to revamp this profession that was once an unacceptable choice for a woman of knowledge--anybody who has read the history of Florence Nightingale will find this-- Is this what we want others to see of us--fortunately this is a nurses website, but anybody can read. How many of you tell your kids to STOP FIGHTING. . .well, my point exactly. Can't we just all get along--I know that is colloquial--but isn't it true. To Ms. Burns AMEN to you for wanting to improve the profession. Let's go for it!!!!!

Originally posted by fergus51:
Is anyone else getting depressed about how we talk to eachother? I think the way the insults are flying on this board goes to show you that NOTHING will be able to unite all nurses. If we ALL had BSNs I am sure we would argue about which program prepared us more.

I do believe a nurse is a nurse because we all get the basic knowledge and specialization occurs after graduation anyways. And as for the number of years doctors go to school: find out what they studied too. A person can go to med school here after studying three years of anything along with about 4 or 5 prereqs. I know a doctor who took journalism so he only studied medicine for 3 years. But I NEVER hear other doctors putting him down. Infighting seems to be a nursing specialty nowadays and it's one area that sure doesn't require an advanced degree.

I got my BSN, but I don't think that makes me super nurse and I don't think it makes me a snobby ***** either. It was what was right for me and that's all that mattered.