OPINION PLEASE-er triage situation-overwhelmed!

Specialties Emergency

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:angryfire My newER director has recently told us that we are triaging "wrong". As an example, she said that a patient recently signed in as "lady partsl bleeding". The pt. waited in the waiting room for 1/2 hour, then left to go to another hospital and miscarried in the parking lot. Her point was, the triage nurse should;ve gone out to the waiting room and asked the pt if she was pregnant. So What? I should have been more assertive, but now I question was the pregnancy viable? Were there 10 people to triage before her? Were we on diversion? Were we holding multiple admits? were there 4 ""chest pain" patients in their 60's and 70's before her? Where was I supposed to put THEM? Was the charge nurse available to help triage? If we were absolutely full to the brim, what was the triage nurse supposed to do? AARRGH. waiting times where I am are 8-10 hours. sometimes even 10-18 hours at county hospital.. If we are full to the brim, what are we supposed to do? I must've blanked out at this discussion, although I was "greatly irritated" (read: really pissed off_) I, for some reason, couldn/t defend us at the time. the more I think about it, the more it irritates me. Any suggestions? Any good replies? I was not the nurse in question. I was in triage last night, and was ordering labs/xrays whatever I could to help speed up things. I do my job and I do it well, but sometimes we are just overwhelmed and we have absolutely no power over the situation. I don't need my "boss" to tell me how to triage. Let's see how SHE does!:angryfire

Specializes in Telemetry, ICU, Psych.

To the OP, I'm not a nurse, but I work as an ED tech in the same area. I actually think that I used to work at the same hospital that you do.

No matter how good a nurse/tech/doc someone is, working in a bad enough environment can be enough to cause mistakes (not that I'm saying you made a mistake). The hospitals in our area can be crazy, and a 6-8 average wait in one certain hospital is not uncommon. The problem is that - when the $h!t hits the fan, it's the nurse that gets blamed.

I do feel sorry for the patient - don't get me wrong. Good luck in your situation. If need be, leave that place. PHX has plenty of better hospitals that can not only save your piece of mind, but your licensce as well.

CrazyPremed

I will be a hard a@$ here...so she miscarried, so what? She was not in danger---she needs an ultra sound at some point....why do gyne's not explain to women that unless they go through x number of pads an hour they do not need to be in ED--gyne should be available for them, we cannot save the fetus...emotional support is all we can offer and in a busy ER---let's face it, 90% of the time we suck at this....either no time, or overwhelmed with other that are screaming. I wish we could have more time for them;leads to another question--why can't they go to L and D to miscarry so the RN's there who know how to deal with this are available?

Other issue--the lady chose to leave--her choice--she is an adult!!! My only question is did the RN at triage explain the wait and offer 'outs' ie if your bleeding worsens, or you cramp, or you feel faint throw your shoe at my head.

I work in an ED where on a bad day we can have up to 12-14 hour waits, due to slow docs and admitted pt's--but a calm, cool, knowlegable triage nurse makes it OK----as long as you care and remind them you know they are there, do bloods, etc.. makes for a much better dept. If a manager or educator thinks they can do a better job--BRING IT ON-- otherwise get back to fixing the issues, (or just talking about them, as they seem to do--lol)

Specializes in Emergency Room.

sorry, I originally posted this, and then my internet stopped working. The person in question had just signed in, she had not yet been triaged. There WERE 4 elderly chest pain patients signed in ahead of her that had not been triaged yet (but they were working on them). 3 of the 4 were admitted to the telemetry unit that night. Besides the chest pain patients, there were about 10 others in front of her, and not an empty bed in sight. My point was, with a pregnancy that was not viable what difference would it have made? I suppose the triage nurse could've gone out to check if she was pregnant, but as a triage nurse do you worry more about elderly chest pain patients or lady partsl bleeds? Maybe something would have been done differently if she was viable...I still don't know where they would've put her.... but she WAS NOT viable. I'm sure the only reason she brought it up was because the patient is probably causing some sort of ruckus. Otherwise, she would have not known that she left and went to another hospital. The thing that upsets me is that the director sides with this patient (who saw a registration clerk only) and doesn't acknowledge that we A. don't have enough nurses. B. are holding multiple admits C. have upteem patients who are SICK waiting for triage . aargh. When will they see that sometimes the "customer" is NOT always right, and in the emergency room, we do NOT HAVE "customers", we have PATIENTS.

Specializes in Emergency Room.

oh, FYI, when we tell our manager that we don't have a replacement for a nurse leaving at her appointed time, or we have a sick call and no fast track nurse or whatever, her answer is "Make It Work".

I think this is a common problem in many ER's across the country. Just last week we had patients waiting to be seen for 6 hours. One of our regular dilaudid/phenergan cocktail craving junkies was in for the third time that week with back pain again and when he was told the wait would be at least six hours he left and went to another hospital and caused a big stink. Guess what our manager did? Called him up personally on his cell phone and apologized and told him that she hopes this does not stop him from comming to our hospital to be treated. Give me a break. I don't know what the answer is. The hardest thing is when you have at least six patients in the ED who are admitted and cannot go upstairs for hours, not because there is no available beds, but because it will put the nurse/patient ratio over 1 patient. I am sure most ER nurses can agree that there have been many times we have up to twelve patients by ourselves and nobody cares. We cannot tell the walk ins that they have to come back when the next shift gets here because we don't have enough nurses to care for them. I love my job in the ER but it just seems as if so many policies that apply to other units are foriegn in the ER.

The only thing I can think of in early pregnancy with non-viable bleeds is ectopic pregnancies.

I had a woman who was 6/40 the other day, generalised cramping abdo pain with bleeding, she herself stated she thought she was miscarrying. All her obs were normal, we had free gyn bays so I put her through the back, even apologised to the NIC incase I was being overcautious! Turned out she was ectopic and admitted... I guess somewhere in my subconsious I must have had doubts on her symptoms.

I agree, the hospital often sides with the patient. In some situations they are just a diffuser, and much like any other job they have to agree with the "customer" (Iknow, I know...they are patients not customers....), but to phone a junkie and request them to return? Are we desparate for money? medcaid must be offering alot of bucks!!!!

It's very frustrating when an administrator who gets the full knowledge of everything later points his or her finger at the triage nurse who was frantically working with the knowledge and resources the nurse had at that time. Every administrator needs to shadow a nurse for a busy twelve hour shift before they judge a situation primarily on the patient's complaints.

RN-one day, I very sorry for your experience, but just want to remind you that police officers don't normally stop their shift unless they truly need help. Not to say that you didn't need medical care either, because you most certainly did, but heat exhaustion and dehydration (if I read the post right) can be life-threatening also.

Sometimes it's also a matter of having the availability of a pelvic bed too. Are you sure there weren't other patients back there besided the officers who were more critical?

Anyway, I'm sorry for your experience and wish everything had gone better for you.

In regard to the woman who left the ER and miscarried (which she would have done anyway)-- I always wonder at the reasoning of patients who decide the wait time is too long and will drive a long distance to another hospital or just go home instead of waiting. Neither one of those is really a solution to the problem.

Specializes in ER, Trauma.

My answer would duplicate noryn's, so I'll spare you. It's easy for everyone (especially management) to look through the retrospectroscope and tell you what you did wrong. There are infinite possibilites they can use to torture you into beleiving you did wrong. All I know is that you saw the patient, not me. If you beleive you did the right thing, that's good enough for me. You can't be held responsible for not prediciting the future with 100% accuracy.

BUT!!! Since I also have worked in a ER with long waits and overwhelming census, I wrote a poem to describe it. When I get home I'll send "Owed To A Triage Nurse." You've been warned.

Having worked in an ER for a period of time and then was moved to another position that supports the ER, I would have to say that the ER is the most frustrating place to work most times. As one response said, the woman is an adult and chose to leave on her own free will - is the nurse responsible for that? We recently had a patient leave our ER after waiting for about 30 minutes and then went to her physician the next day (which was the option given to her the day before) and she had a hernia during pregnancy, subsequently had surgery. She filed a customer service complaint against the ER. It was stated that a QOC report was needing to be done, but the ER manager refused because as he stated "the adult individual left on her own free will". If the person chose to do so on their own free will, without telling the nurse she was leaving or bleeding heavier then who is at fault? Management needs to stand behind the nurses, without us they do not have jobs - fortunately, I have one that understands this, but not all do. Good Luck!!!!

Specializes in ER, Trauma.

Worked in a county hospital where people sometimes waited over 24 hours to get into a room. Triage had 3 recliners with monitors, O2, suction, etc. Sometimes had 9 patients to monitor in triage PLUS doing the triage of new arrivals. It inspired the following poem (during a coffee break. Had 10 minutes to myself but couldn't put the pen down!). Hope others enjoy or find comfort in it, or at least a chuckle.

ODE (OWED?) TO A TRIAGE NURSE.

Doing the paperwork

surrounded by locks

all of this chaos

in the triage box

get a good history

front man for docs

get them seen quickly

or so angrily they gawk

telephone's ringing

stab wound in walks

voice at the window

at the door knocks

rash covered patient

is it a pox

even when its quiet (yeah right)

hear monitors and clocks

please help me quickly

a scared patient talks

a policeman's radio

behind you it squawks

a "code 13" patient

security stalks

think like an owl

act like a fox

no one can releive you

until it runs in your socks

Specializes in Emergency Room.

As a closing note.................I hate triage. well, no, actually I LIKE triage for about 4-6 hours, then after that I hate it.:banghead:

I got kind of burned out after doing med/surg for 10 years, and went to er nursing about 7 years ago, thinking, well I don't have to have the same patient for days on end. Now I'm thinking, why didn't I become a paramedic? (or a doc). Then I would only have to spend a few MINUTES with the patients. Ha! (maybe I AM burned out!)

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