lpn's in ER - page 2

I have been an Lpn for 17 years. I used to work in the Er in Western NY untill I moved by New York City. I was the first LPN in the ER back home and helped to write what they could and couldn't do.... Read More

  1. by   4XNURSE
    Originally posted by Nittlebug
    Wait a second. Now, I agree that having experienced personel in the ER is important, but the last I heard, LPNs still cannot give IV push meds, correct? Or is this different state to state? A huge number of ER patients get IV push meds and need RN assessments, so why should I (as an RN) have to do those tasks for an LPN when I already have a pt load? That's not fair, and I would speak out against hiring an LPN in our dept. based on just that.
    Nittlebug,

    I guess you'all up there in the mid-north of the country must have it good.

    I wish all I had to do was push IV meds all day long.

    Out here in the far southwest we spend a few minutes out of a 12 hour shift pushing meds. We, the RNs, LVNs, ED techs, CNAs, have to work for a living. If I have to push a few meds for my experienced LVN, (LPN in most of the country) so be it. We all have to do foley caths, ng tubes, clean up the feces, vomit, blood, and just plain dirt. Our patients need bed pans, clean gowns, bandages, splints, vag speculums(uuuugh), lab tests, trips to
    X-ray, CT scans,throat cultures, hell, even a little TLC once in a while. Here in the real world a RN/BSN isn't needed for all that stuff, and my good friendly LVN/LPN partners do just fine, or better.

    Oh yeah, You are probably one of those that thinks I shouldn't be a nurse. I have XY chromozomes. I have to ask my LVN friend/partner with XX to go in on the vag exams. Does that disqualify me? Am I unfit to be a nurse, too?

    What comes around goes around, I guess. In my warped opinion you RNs with your "I'm superior" attitude, need to come on back down to earth. We all need each other. Kick your stupid little piece of paper, called a degree, out of the way, and observe. We're all nurses. We all have something to contribute. Let's get together and improve patient care, instead of trying to tell everyone how much better you are than someone else.

    just my $ .02

    ken - RN/BSN
    Last edit by 4XNURSE on Mar 30, '02
  2. by   Momfergie
    [font=courier new][size=4]all i can say is, "go ken"!!! you need to take a trip over to the "why such poor opinion of lpn's" forum... i sure took a beatin' over there on this subject! thanks for your $0.02.:kiss
  3. by   4XNURSE
    Momfergie,

    I'm just getting fed up to my ugly, old eyeballs, with all the RNs who think their feces doesn't smell bad. Work is work. We need to share the tasks, and promote patient care.

    Life isn't fair! Some of these people need to quit the whining and live in the real world.

    OK, I'm trying to stop myself.

    You're welcome! I'll work with you any time.

    ken
  4. by   mother/babyRN
    Usually I can see and agree or disagree with points on both sides, and althought I still do, I fail to understand why it is seemingly ok and a GOOD thing to really sock it to, bash or otherwise tell Rns how "horrible" they are when they(we) disagree or voice an opinion ( which was put out there as a question, by the way), and NOT tolerate any sort of criticism or opposite opinion against an LPN in any way , shape or form...I am not of the opinion either should be bashed or preferred, but I can respect the passion the accompanies both opinions. Ken, I think you have a right to your opinion, but you delivered it in a way bound to elicit a defensive response from an RN that might have remotely agreed with you....I have worked with LPNs in both critical care AND obs whom I would trust with my life, and worked with RNs I wouldn't want my dog to have as caretakers. It is individual..Promoting divisiveness by "bashing" each other promotes just that, division.....Ultimately, it is a hospital or management, or state law decision, OR some combination....Unless someone has been both an LPN and an RN, neither can speak for the other side....Thats what experience was created for.....
  5. by   4XNURSE
    mother/babyRN,

    I've said this before. I'll say it again. Walt Disney said it quite eloquently in Cinderella. "If the shoe fits, wear it." If what I said applies to you, then I am offended by your attitude toward LVN/LPNs. If what I said does not apply to you, I would hope you wouldn't be offended. Nittlebug says she would vote not to have LPNs in the ER, simply because she might have to push the LPNs IV push meds. What a crock!

    Did you miss the part about getting together and working for our patients?

    As I read some of the posts on this site - the whole thing, I am both amazed and apalled by the elitist view taken by some of the RN crowd.

    I, as a party of one, think our profession would do well to unite at all levels. Not crying about how unfair it is that I(we)/you are somehow mistreated as a result of having to work together with someone who has a different scope of practice. If instead of whining about having to push a few more meds, we would just share the work load, our patients would all be better served. Quit worrying about who has the hardest assignment, and take care of the patients.

    I push the LVNs meds, she chaparones my vag exams. Whats the big deal?

    There are countless ways we can work together and improve the practice, without sniveling about somehow being mistreated by having to do someone elses IV meds, or assessments.


    I guess I need to go get some sleep. I seem to be getting quite crabby.

    Hope y'all have a great weekend & holiday

    ken
    Last edit by 4XNURSE on Mar 30, '02
  6. by   petiteflower
    In our small rural hospital, we staff with mostly RNS and everyone who is working is responsible for ER, when we do have LPN's they are allowed to cover, but it is our job as the RN's to triage those patients. I would not assign an LPN to a potential cardiac etc. But they sure can assess and care for routine things, thus freeing me up for the advanced care. I do not think that an LPN should work ER without an RN supervising, that is the RN's license on the line as well.
  7. by   micheledenisern
    Hi, Country air

    I'm Michele, and I supervise a FAST TRACK area in our ER, that is staffed by LPN'S.

    They are the best nurses, and do an excellent job. I myself was an LPN for 5 years, before I recieved my RN, and I feel I got more floor experience, as far as clinicals that when I was in RN school.

    In the main ER, we also have some LPN'S, and I would work with most of them in an instant. They are motivated, and are good clinicians, and provide excellent patient care. Like you wrote, I would work with some of these LPN'S over some of the RN"S any day.

    The hospital I work for is in OK, so I don't know what it would be like in N.C.
  8. by   micheledenisern
    Hey Ken,

    Loved your response about LPN'S. PLease as a new baby RN, never change your mindset.

    I am an RN, and feel exactly the same, and have since I started my movement up the ladder, since 1976.

    I believe everyone is important, from housekeeping on up. Be an advocate for the LPN'S. I staff 7 LPN'S in my FAST TRACK, and would'nt want anyone else, and the LPN'S that work in the main ER are sometimes more qualified then the RN'S. I personally don't mind doing the cardiacs, or helping with meds, knowing I have someone on the floor, watching my back also.

    Michele
  9. by   massEDgirl
    I think the situation is different if you have HAD lpn's in the ED for a while. I mean...I agree with the fact thet there are some lpn's that got it over some rn's big time.

    My hospital has not hired lpn's for a long time. About 8 years ago made them decide to go back to school or become a "nurses aide II"

    My ED has NEVER had lpn's working in it. It is just not a practice they would ever consider....for a lot of reasons that have already been mentioned in earlier posts.

    To the lpn's...Why would you even WANT to work in an ED......side by side with an rn...doing almost the same amount of work...and know you are getting paid way less money for this?? Personally I would have a hard time with this.
  10. by   KKERRN
    I would rather have LPN working with me than being short an nurse! We all need to be more positive team players! Our night shift seems to have more of the team spirit than our dayshift! I guess its because they do have more staffing...even though most shifts we see the same or even more patients. Why do so many nurses like to "eat their young". It seems more to our benefit to nourish our nurses,techs and EMT's to be able to function their best. We notice on certain nights the staff on made the difference on how well the flow of care and patients went! It seems no matter where you work there is always some personality conflicts or workers who only give a steady 50-65% work efffort!
    With the shortage of nurses already hitting our area, we need to learn to respect each other and be able to retain good staffing!
    Karen/KKERRN
  11. by   ER_RN07
    Hi!

    I work in the fast track of the ER. My hospital does not hire LPN's in the main ER. They have recently floating us to the GYN rooms when they are short. Which really does not bother me as I welcome the change! The RN's have been very supportive to me since I have begun floating to the GYN hall, I know it is a pain for them to have to push my med's for me, but as one RN put it the other day " If you were not here I would have to do everything plus push the meds."
  12. by   Nittlebug
    We don't hire LPNs in our ER. I am thankful we are not shortstaffed at this time. If we did ever hire LPNs due to a shortage of RNs I think we could make it work out that they get assigned appropriate patients. We have many non critical patients that need ER care but don't really require an RN. I think an LPN is qualified to do pt teaching of discharge instructions.
  13. by   rn2binmay
    Regardless of the amount of experience one nurse (lpn or rn) has over another, RN's, quite simply, have received a different level of education than LPNs. It is for this reason that part of an RN's scope of work is to oversee that of the LPN. If an LPN is unhappy with this arrangement, or enraged by any discussion of it, he or she should realize the RN's don't make the laws, the laws are made in the interest of patient safety.

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