Do you arrest abusive patients? - page 3

We are having a debate on and off about whether or not to arrest someone who is abusive in the ED. Not someone who has assaulted a staff memeber...that's a "no brainer"...bye bye my... Read More

  1. by   RNin92
    Quote from teeituptom
    he can alwys hit them with the walker
    if he could lift it!!!
  2. by   JBudd
    Quote from teeituptom
    and pepper spray also

    Uh-uhhh! not in my ER! We had a berserker running down the hall, when the cops peppered him, they only got half of it on him and the other half on the nurse behind him
    guess which one got the most care the fastest? and PD is banned from using it here ever again. Now tasers.......
  3. by   teeituptom
    Tasers

    I like that high tech stuff
  4. by   RNin92
    I think I have to move out of the Midwest to the Southwest...

    You guys got all the fun stuff!
    Pepper spray AND tasers!!!

  5. by   Dr. Gonzo
    No you should not arrest a patient for being verbally abusive even if he threatens your life. I been verbally abused not a big deal it wasnt the first time i been yelled at and wont be the last time. Now if a patient attacks you and he's not a psyche patient then you should donate their body to a medical school.
  6. by   Calfax
    Quote from Dr. Gonzo
    No you should not arrest a patient for being verbally abusive even if he threatens your life. I been verbally abused not a big deal it wasnt the first time i been yelled at and wont be the last time. Now if a patient attacks you and he's not a psyche patient then you should donate their body to a medical school.
    I'm gonna have to disagree with Dr. Gonzo on this one...but I will allow that it's situational. If the patient's psychotic or disoriented or something, OK. But if they're just an drunken arse'ole or justa plain old arse'ole...then yes. Arrest his arse....with prejudice.

    Imagine if you went into Starbuck's and threatend to kill the coffee guy because you had to wait too long for a latte. They'd call the police and you'd go to jail.

    Suppose, Dr. Gonzo, you're at your favorite bar and your favorite waitress or bartender is being loudly berated by an angry patron for...say, pouring the wrong drink (or more likely, cutting him off...)? Mightn't you come to your barmaid's aid and twist off said patron's head for such an impoliteness? You would.

    You don't shoot the cable guy because he didn't hook up the Spice channel....you just slip him 50 bucks. (imagine how'd that improve wait times in the ER

    In effect what you're saying is that you and your co-workers don't deserve the same respect and social courtesy afforded to all other service industry members. Hell, no. It's not like I don't have enough problems without the local Toyota dealer screaming at me because his kid has had a fever all afternoon.

    Now, I'm military.....but I have no problem having our unruly non-military customers escorted out of the hospital by SP's into the custody of the local PD. You shouldn't either. My military customers who misbehave are dealt with accordingly as well.

    The bottom line is that no, you don't get to be rude and disrespectful and nasty to ER nurses, be it a patient, doctor or other.

    ER nurses, you work hard, you deserve respect for saving lives and relieving suffering. Anyone who whines can go to nursing school just like we did and feel free to do it better. Anyone who threatens your life needs to be reported. Lastly, a healthy knowledge of firearms, brightly lit parking lots, unlisted phone numbers, no last names, and safety in numbers needs to be part of every ER nurse's routine.
  7. by   Dr. Gonzo
    Look if someone is in the ER it's usually not cause they wanna be their. Most of them are cranky i understand so if their verbally abusive big deal. Just call security and have them deal with them.
  8. by   critcarenurse16
    Just last night I had a patient go nuts--got abusive and violent with staff. We had the police come in and 'talk' to pt, pt started hitting police--not the right thing to do. I wouldn't let them handcuff pt to bed like they wanted to though. We managed to 'get pt settled down' (haldol, ativan, versed) and pt took a little nap. So yes! We call the police for violent pts but as far as I know no one has ever been arrested for violence against a staff member.
  9. by   soltera
    Quote from teeituptom
    he can alwys hit them with the walker

    hehehehehe
  10. by   RNin92
    Quote from critcarenurse16
    Just last night I had a patient go nuts--got abusive and violent with staff. We had the police come in and 'talk' to pt, pt started hitting police--not the right thing to do. I wouldn't let them handcuff pt to bed like they wanted to though. We managed to 'get pt settled down' (haldol, ativan, versed) and pt took a little nap. So yes! We call the police for violent pts but as far as I know no one has ever been arrested for violence against a staff member.
    I guess this is the reason I posted this thread to start with.

    WHY don't we arrest these people?
    I am NOT talking about the psychs either...they have no control...
    I AM taking about the drunks and a$$es that think they can do or say anything because they are a$$es and drunks!

    NO WHERE ELSE would this behavior be tolerated. No WHERE.

    Just because we are nurses and want to help and nurture everyone...does NOT mean that we should be the verbal abuse-taking door mats. Calling security is fine if someone is getting unruly...loud...whatever...
    But when it escalates to threats and obscenities...WHY do I have to "take it" just because I am a nurse? WHY???

    A someone else said...even in a bar...you get out of line and become verbally abusive and/or threatening...you are asked to shut up or you are arrested. Period.

    I guarantee you that if one of the drunks who comes in my ER said "I want some God DA@# food now you stupid CU$#" to a waitress...he would be spending the rest of his evening compliments of the local authorities.
    Last edit by RNin92 on Apr 29, '04
  11. by   RainbowSkye
    Amen. I've always wondered why nurses feel they have to put up with abuse that no other profession would tolerate. I understand that we don't see folks at their best in the ER, and I'm willing to put up with more than, say, the person who works at the make-up conter at the local department store. Fear, pain and drugs (legal, illegal and alcohol) can often alter someone's normal perceptions and response.

    However, I think it may be part of the whole attitude and culture of nursing which allows us to think it's okay to put up with a variety of abuse. And I'm not talking about just abuse from patients, but from our co-workers, bosses and docs....

    I wonder what that is??????
  12. by   RainbowSkye
    I wonder what that is??????[/QUOTE]

    Sorry, I meant to say I wonder why that is...

    For me it started way back in the seventies in nursing school. We were taught to always stand up when a doctor came into the nurses' station and to offer our chair to him (most docs were male back then, btw). There was a nurse assigned to push a portable chart rack while the doctor made rounds and to stand at the bedside while he examined the patient. There was also a dressing nurse who made rounds with the physician - she pushed a little cart with all kinds of supplies, handed the doc what he needed and pretty much picked up after him (back in those days a nurse was not allowed to do the first dressing change after surgery). I remember docs throwing bloody, nasty dressings on the floor expecting me to pick up after him. I certainly learned my place in a hurry.

    I think this whole attitude sets the stage for an enviroment of abuse. There was a book I read a few years back called something like "The Pedagogy of Oppression" which addressed this issue. Despite that title, it was a pretty good (and eye opening) book.

    What do y'all think?
  13. by   Dr. Gonzo
    Quote from RainbowSkye
    I wonder what that is??????
    Sorry, I meant to say I wonder why that is...

    For me it started way back in the seventies in nursing school. We were taught to always stand up when a doctor came into the nurses' station and to offer our chair to him (most docs were male back then, btw). There was a nurse assigned to push a portable chart rack while the doctor made rounds and to stand at the bedside while he examined the patient. There was also a dressing nurse who made rounds with the physician - she pushed a little cart with all kinds of supplies, handed the doc what he needed and pretty much picked up after him (back in those days a nurse was not allowed to do the first dressing change after surgery). I remember docs throwing bloody, nasty dressings on the floor expecting me to pick up after him. I certainly learned my place in a hurry.

    I think this whole attitude sets the stage for an enviroment of abuse. There was a book I read a few years back called something like "The Pedagogy of Oppression" which addressed this issue. Despite that title, it was a pretty good (and eye opening) book.

    What do y'all think?[/QUOTE]You were taught to to always stand up when a doctor came into the nurses' station and to offer our chair to him. Wow i cant believe thats how it used to be what make doctors so special anyway most of the doctors i met are arrogant and think they know it all.
    Last edit by Dr. Gonzo on Apr 29, '04

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