Flu shot issue

coolpeach · Oct 31, 2010

My supervisor gave me the vaccine the same as everyone else on my floor, and I took her word for it that it was the flu vaccine. I have tried to look at everything in my life to see if it could be anything else. I was fine before I got the vaccine, and sick after. I have two grown children, and one teen, and all are well. I haven't been around anyone ill that I know of. I am older, and a creature of habit so I haven't eaten anything new or different. I haven't started using any new soaps, cleaners, shampoos, perfumes etc. I work in ortho so my patients are usually broken, and not sick. I did NOT work around anyone with anything viral that we knew about. All of my patients are adults, and I haven't been around any children (other than my teen). I have been busy with education, family, career so I haven't dated since the ice age (sad, but true) so I can cross out sexually transmitted. The absolute only thing new was the flu shot, and the symptoms started as soon as I got it, progressed, and still haven't went away.

I get the shot every year with no problem. I am as confused as you. I don't know what I am going to do next year. I don't want the flu, but I don't want this either.

I am feeling a little bit less mentally foggy since stopping the steroids on Friday, and starting the antibiotics. The rash is not any better, and actually seems worse. The itchiness, and burning are far worse (probably from stopping the steroids), and the rash has spread to more areas. If you have a clue I would love to hear it. Back to the Dr. tomorrow.

mystcnurse, MSN, APRN, NP · Nov 5, 2010

We found something to agree on, I'm especially glad that you're born and bred Canadian as well.
I'll stick to science instead of overly melodramatic propaganda.

I'm just curious what science you are talking about? So funny, because the advertisement on the top of this page said "more Americans die from influenza than from breast cancer" the "source" listed, is the CDC - and then "find a flu shot". If you go to the CDCs website, it states that b/t 3,000 and 49,000 Americans die from influenza each year. Hmmm. That's kind of a large spread. That's the best information available? Seriously???

There is no evidence that the influenza shot is effective, or that it is safe. All you have to do is simply read the package insert to find this out, and you can see the package inserts of all available vaccinations on line. You can also go to Cochrane, which is basically the most reliable source of evidence based information available, to find that vaccinating healthcare professionals has not been shown to reduce influenza in their patients.

As patient advocates and as a nurse advocates, it seems that the ethical principle of autonomy should be upheld. Without clear evidence of effectiveness or safety, no one, especially health care providers, should be either forced to take this vaccination or even GIVEN the vaccination, specifically the new one that includes the untested H1N1. And I'm not talking about this BS "several studies have shown"... when you look at the studies, you find that they are usually funded by the vaccine manufacturers, and that they are very poorly performed, and that they are usually "observational studies". Nurses and other medical professionals should be at least educated enough to analyze the research and find the flaws in it, not take everything that they hear, the media hype, the shame "you need to protect your patients!", the propoganda, and SWALLOW it whole!

People who say "the flu shot is safe" are being ridiculously over confident. That is very scary. I think the important thing for us to realize, is that we know VERY little. Afluria was basically mandated for children 6 months to 5 years in Australia, until "post marketing effects" on these children were found in very high numbers. They STOPPED giving it, but it is the injection that they are forcing on the health care workers (minus the MDs) where I work. BTW, I am resigning based on the fact that I cannot work for an organization that makes decisions based on media hype and not scientific evidence. My question is, WHY were these kids having adverse reactions? And if they were having adverse reactions, what is it doing to adults? Will we find in 10 years that having a vaccination repeatedly injected into our muscles, year after year, increases the risk for autoimmune disorders? Causes cancer? Etc, etc. We simply DO NOT KNOW.

MANY drugs are approved by the FDA (who, incidentally, is overrun with executives who have stock and/or other alliances in many of the drug companies they are supposed to be over-seeing), and deemed safe, to only later be found to cause serious adverse reactions.

The Joint Commission recently began a campaign regarding a "vaccination challenge". Generally, the Joint Commission makes decisions that make sense. This time, they decided to go with a pharmaceutical manufacturer funded "challenge", to try and get hospitals to MAKE their staffs comply. Not sure what they get if they do, but Smith Kline Glaxco Welcom is paying for it. I think this is extremely unethical. And totally disrespectful to nurses everywhere. Hey, I guess they couldn't get the public to "comply" last year, so this year, they thought they would just force who they can. Who knows. You can find a video on YouTube of the Council on Foreign relations, in 2009, discussing the orchostration of a fake flu vaccine shortage as a way to get the public to get the shot. I think the participants exact words are "you know that when people think something is in demand, they'll line up for it" and then you hear laughter from the rest of the participants.

I don't think the "nazi Germany" comment is so out of touch. There is a lot going on right now in the US that is very scary, unconstitutional and downright unAmerican. The reason that there ever WAS a Nazi Germany, was because the people were slowly and methodically led to give up their rights and those who questioned were ridiculed, at first, and later pretty much shot on the spot. Those who ridiculed or just stood by and did nothing were as guilty as those who did the shooting. They allowed it to happen.

It is CORRECT to question. Questioning is one of the main characteristics of a "critical thinker".

I've looked at all the "evidence" in depth. There isn't any. And if I'm wrong, please show me. Standing by on pins and needles.

Ciao.

martinhea13 · Nov 5, 2010

good for you for sharing these points! i'd written a reply on the "nazi germany" issue as well, which i lost several paragraphs as the reply didn't post. if you look into the history of the drug companies, we'll find only a few "biggies" who were around at the time of the second world war. one biggie was ig farben, who'd conveniently set up shop next to auschwitz. ig farben was a chemical manufacturing company that manufactured sarin gas. after the war ended, many of the scientists, physicists and engineers were brough to america and given immunity from the nuremburg trials in exchange for divulging their trade secrets, and agreeing to work for american interests alone. the rockefellers were at that same time, busy buying up control of the medical establishment and set up harvard as the pre-eminent centre for medical research and education. in fact william rockefeller's interest in big oil soon became an interest in big pharma. at one time, he tried to sell unrefined petroleum as a cancer cure. rockefeller and i.g farben and the drug companies they soon controlled acted to suppress effective drugs until it's cartel could be established.

"ig farben came into being in 1925. bosch convinced bayer, basf, hoechst, and many smaller companies to form a cartel powerful enough to withstand turbulent times. although bosch, who became chairman, criticized adolf hitler publicly as late as 1939, he was unable or unwilling to prevent more opportunistic members of ig farben management from joining the nazi party, providing financial backing to the regime, and taking an active role in secret war preparations."

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/08_34/b4097098922518.htm

eustace mullins who wrote extensively about the various controlling interests being set up in the u.s. and who was a protege of ezra pound, wrote:

"franks (as in lord oliver franks who directed wellcome trust - my note)was ambassador to the united states from 1948 to 1952. he also was a director of the rockefeller foundation, as its principlal representative in england. he also was a director of the schroeder bank, which handled hitler's personal bank account; director of the rhodes trus in charge of approving rhodes scholarships; visiting professor at the university of chicago; and chairman of lloyd's bank, one of england's big five."

"rockefeller control over the medical establishment also was excercised through the rockefeller sanitary commission and the rockefeller institute for medical research, at one time headed by dr. detlev bronk, already named as a suspected member of mj-12. rockefeller's general education board has spent more than $100 million to gain control of the nations medical schools and turn our physicians to physicians of the allopathic school, dedicated to surgery and the heavy use of drugs." eustace mullins, as quoted in the rise of the fourth reich, jim marrs.

also, i make the following points:

how does someone like donald rumsfeld (ceo of searle - manufacturer or aspartame), become g (dubya) bush's chief of staff? i encourage you to look into the number of people who've moved from positions within drug companies or the cdc or the fda to positions in government.... this is your homework assignment.

as well, the parliamentary assembly of the commission of europe published a report highly critical of the behavior of the who and the drug companies who manufactured the vaccine for the "h1n1 pandemic":

doc. 12283

7 june 2010

the handling of the h1n1 pandemic: more transparency needed

report1

social health and family affairs committee

rapporteur: mr paul flynn, united kingdom, socialist group

summary

on 11 june 2009, the world health organization (who) officially declared “pandemic (h1n1) 2009”. the way in which the h1n1 influenza pandemic has been handled, not only by who, but also by the competent health authorities at the level of the european union and at national level, gives rise to alarm. some of the consequences of decisions taken and advice given are particularly troubling, as they led to distortion of priorities of public health services across europe, waste of large sums of public money and also unjustified scares and fears about health risks faced by the european public at large.

grave shortcomings have been identified regarding the transparency of decision-making processes relating to the pandemic which have generated concerns about the possible influence of the pharmaceutical industry on some of the major decisions relating to the pandemic. it must be feared that this lack of transparency and accountability will result in a plummet in confidence in the advice given by major public health institutions. (read the full report here).

hope you find this enlightening and a window into the inner workings of our health institutions.

Laidback Al · Nov 6, 2010

. . . . Nurses and other medical professionals should be at least educated enough to analyze the research and find the flaws in it, not take everything that they hear, the media hype, . . . the propoganda, and SWALLOW it whole!

mystcnurse, thanks for posting your opinions about the the efficacy of influenza vaccines. You make a strong point that the HCW should be sufficiently educated in science and objective reasoning to evaluated any kind of claim backed up by "research".

However, you substantially weaken your argument about vaccinations when you uncritically embrace conspiracy theories about politics in US. Nazi Germany? Unconstitutional and unAmerican behaviors? Where is the science and the "research" that this this happening? Better yet, how is the fact that you think hard science doesn't support mass flu vaccinations translate to an oppressive political regime in the US? Where is your "evidence that you looked at in depth" that this is occurring? Or is it possible that in the political arena you may have swallowed the media hype and political propaganda that you have accused others of in the vaccination arena?

I don't think the "nazi Germany" comment is so out of touch. There is a lot going on right now in the US that is very scary, unconstitutional and downright unAmerican. The reason that there ever WAS a Nazi Germany, was because the people were slowly and methodically led to give up their rights and those who questioned were ridiculed, at first, and later pretty much shot on the spot. Those who ridiculed or just stood by and did nothing were as guilty as those who did the shooting. They allowed it to happen.
It is CORRECT to question. Questioning is one of the main characteristics of a "critical thinker".
I've looked at all the "evidence" in depth. There isn't any. And if I'm wrong, please show me. Standing by on pins and needles.
Ciao.

Wishinonastar, BSN · Nov 6, 2010

Wow, such paranoia. The problem that you fail to recognize is that you cannot "prove" that people getting the flu shot makes a difference unless you withold the flu shot for a time and see what happens. Even then there are too many variables. They can only take what is known and extrapolate it to various scenarios. Viruses are unpredictable and this method is all we have. The hope is to prevent a massive global pandemic that will wipe out large chunks of the population which is way overdue because of overpopulation. We are resisting and fighting nature's way.

I really think that it is a personal decision and I don't think I would stay at an employer who required the vaccine. That is just wrong on so many levels- very "Big Brother". You have to weight your own risk, and that of your loved ones.

Coolpeach please keep us posted. I think it sounds like a viral rash or an autoimmune reaction perhaps triggered by the vaccine but symptomatic of other things going on with you. Either way it is terrible and I really hope that you are doing better. The nurse who gave you the shot is probably freaking out. I had a patient once with Guillain-Barre syndrome after a vaccine (not the flu vaccine) and it made me terrfied of vaccines for a long time, but now that I have seen lots of people die from flu complications I am more inclined to take my chances with the shot.

mystcnurse, MSN, APRN, NP · Nov 6, 2010

The term "conspiracy theory" is part of the "political and media hype". All you really have to do is open your eyes, to see the direction this country is going in, and HAS been going in for quite some time. Bailouts? Body scanners? The Patriot Act? Forced vaccinations on health care workers? Corporations are now considered "persons"? Martinhea13's post is historically very accurate, and worth the read. However, I did not say we "lived" in Nazi Germany. I said that it was not so out of the realm of reality for someone to make the comparison. Instead of telling her or him how you are so glad they are in Canada, it might be worth it to have a respectful and analytical discussion on the subject.

martinhea13 · Nov 6, 2010

please read my post above yours regarding the 'nazi germany' comments... :coollook:

i also give you this page from wiki:

ig farben was founded on december 25, 1925, as a merger of the following six companies:[color=#0645ad][2]

[color=#0645ad]basf
[color=#0645ad]bayer
[color=#0645ad]hoechst (including [color=#0645ad]cassella and chemische fabrik kalle)
[color=#0645ad]agfa
chemische fabrik griesheim-elektron
chemische fabrik vorm. weiler ter meer

predecessors

at the beginning of the 20th century the german chemical industry dominated the world market for [color=#0645ad]synthetic dyes. the three major firms [color=#0645ad]basf, [color=#0645ad]bayer and [color=#0645ad]hoechst produced several hundred different dyes, along with the five smaller firms [color=#0645ad]agfa, [color=#0645ad]cassella, chemische fabrik kalle, chemische fabrik griesheim-elektron and chemische fabrik vorm. weiler-ter meer concentrated on high-quality specialty dyes. in 1913 these eight firms produced almost 90 percent of the world supply of dyestuffs and sold about 80 percent of their production abroad.[color=#0645ad][3] the three major firms had also integrated upstream into the production of essential raw materials and they began to expand into other areas of chemistry such as [color=#0645ad]pharmaceuticals, [color=#0645ad]photographic film, [color=#0645ad]agricultural chemicals and [color=#0645ad]electrochemicals. contrary to other industries the founders and their families had little influence on the top-level decision-making of the leading german chemical firms, which was in the hands of professional salaried managers. because of this unique situation the economic historian [color=#0645ad]alfred chandler called the german dye companies "the world's first truly managerial industrial enterprises".[color=#0645ad][4]

[color=#0645ad]

indigo production at basf in 1890

with the world market for synthetic dyes and other chemical products dominated by the german industry, german firms competed vigorously for market shares. although [color=#0645ad]cartels were attempted they lasted at most for a few years. others argued for the formation of a profit pool or interessen-gemeinschaft (abbr. ig, lit. community of interest).[color=#0645ad][5] in contrast, the chairman of bayer, [color=#0645ad]carl duisberg, argued for a merger. during a trip to the united states in the spring of 1903 he had visited several of the large american [color=#0645ad]trusts such as [color=#0645ad]standard oil (rockefeller), [color=#0645ad]u.s. steel, [color=#0645ad]international paper and [color=#0645ad]alcoa.[color=#0645ad][6] in 1904, after having returned to germany he proposed a nationwide merger of the producers of dye and pharmaceuticals in a memorandum to gustav von brüning, the senior manager at hoechst.[color=#0645ad][7] hoechst and several pharmaceutical firms refused to join. instead, hoechst and cassella made an alliance based on mutual equity stakes in 1904. this prompted duisberg and heinrich von brunck, chairman of basf, to accelerate their negotiations. in october 1904 an interessen-gemeinschaft between bayer, basf and agfa was formed, also known as the dreibund or little ig. profits of the three firms were pooled, with basf and bayer getting 43 percent and agfa 14 percent of all profits.[color=#0645ad][8] the two alliances were loosely connected with each other through an agreement between basf and hoechst to jointly exploit the patent on the heumann-pfleger [color=#0645ad]indigo synthesis.[color=#0645ad][9]

within the dreibund bayer and basf concentrated on dye whereas agfa increasingly concentrated on photographic film. although there was some cooperation between the technical staff in production and accounting, there was little cooperation between the firms in other areas. neither were production or distribution facilities consolidated nor did the commercial staff cooperate.[color=#0645ad][10] in 1908 hoechst and cassella acquired 88 percent of the shares of chemische fabrik kalle. as hoechst, cassella and kalle were connected by mutual equity shares and were located close to each other in the [color=#0645ad]frankfurt area, this allowed them to cooperate more successfully than the dreibund, although they also did not rationalize or consolidate their production facilities.[color=#0645ad][10]

foundation of ig farben

ig farben was founded on december 25, 1925 as a merger of the following six companies: [color=#0645ad]basf (27.4 percent of equity capital), [color=#0645ad]bayer (27.4 percent), [color=#0645ad]hoechst including [color=#0645ad]cassella and chemische fabrik kalle (27.4 percent), [color=#0645ad]agfa (9.0 percent), chemische fabrik griesheim-elektron (6.9 percent) and chemische fabrik vorm. weiler ter meer (1.9 percent). in 1926 ig farben had a [color=#0645ad]market capitalization of 1.4 billion [color=#0645ad]reichsmark and a workforce of 100,000 people, of which 2.6 percent were university educated, 18.2 percent were salaried professionals and 79.2 percent were workers.[color=#0645ad][2]

similar mergers took place in other countries. in the united kingdom [color=#0645ad]brunner mond, [color=#0645ad]nobel industries, [color=#0645ad]united alkali company and [color=#0645ad]british dyestuffs merged to [color=#0645ad]imperial chemical industries in september 1926. in france établissements poulenc frères and société chimique des usines du rhône merged to [color=#0645ad]rhône-poulenc in 1928.[color=#0645ad][11]

the [color=#0645ad]ig farben building, headquarters for the conglomerate in [color=#0645ad]frankfurt am main, germany, was completed in 1931.

in 1938 the company had 218,000 employees.[color=#0645ad][12]

[color=#0645ad]

ig farben factory in monowitz (near auschwitz) 1941

world war ii

during the planning of the invasion of [color=#0645ad]czechoslovakia and [color=#0645ad]poland, ig farben cooperated closely with nazi officials and directed which chemical plants should be secured and delivered to ig farben.[1]

in 1941, an investigation exposed a "marriage" cartel between john d. rockefeller's united states-based standard oil co. and i.g. farben.[color=#0645ad][13][color=#0645ad][14] (see[color=#0645ad][15] and[color=#0645ad][16]) it also brought new evidence concerning complex price and marketing agreements between [color=#0645ad]dupont, a major investor in and producer of [color=#0645ad]leaded gasoline, [color=#0645ad]united states industrial alcohol company and their subsidiary, [color=#ba0000]cuba distilling co. the investigation was eventually dropped, like dozens of others in many different kinds of industries, due to the need to enlist industry support in the war effort. however, the top directors of many oil companies agreed to resign, and oil industry stocks in molasses companies were sold off as part of a compromise worked out.[color=#0645ad][17][color=#0645ad][18][color=#0645ad][19]

ig farben built a factory (named buna chemical plant) that produced [color=#0645ad]synthetic oil and [color=#0645ad]rubber (from [color=#0645ad]coal) at [color=#0645ad]auschwitz,[color=#0645ad][20] which was the beginning of [color=#0645ad]ss activity and camps in this location during [color=#0645ad]the holocaust. at its peak in 1944, this factory made use of 83,000 [color=#0645ad]slave laborers and prisoners.[color=#0645ad][21] the pesticide [color=#0645ad]zyklon b (infamous for its use in gas chambers during the holocaust), for which ig farben held the [color=#0645ad]patent, was manufactured by [color=#0645ad]degesch (deutsche gesellschaft für schädlingsbekämpfung), which ig farben owned 42.2 percent of (in shares) and which had ig farben managers in its managing committee.

of the 24 directors of ig farben indicted in the so-called ig farben trial (1947–1948) before a u.s. military tribunal at the subsequent nuremberg trials, 13 were sentenced to prison terms between one and eight years. some of those indicted in the trial were subsequently made leaders of the post-war companies that split off from ig farben, including those who were sentenced at nuremberg.

ruins of the synthetic petrol plant (hydrierwerke pölitz – aktiengeselschaft) in police, poland

facilities during world war ii

ig farben facilities were bombing targets of the [color=#0645ad]oil campaign of world war ii, and up to 1941, there were 5 [color=#0645ad]nazi germany buna plants that produced buna n by the [color=#0645ad]lebedev process.[color=#0645ad][22]:15

dworyafter a contract was initiated by a march 2, 1942 contract with "ig farbenindustrie ag auschwitz",[color=#3366bb][1] the [color=#0645ad]synthetic rubber and oil plant at dwory (near auschwitz iii-[color=#0645ad]monowitz, which provided [color=#0645ad]forced labor) was under construction in november 1943).[color=#0645ad][23] the buna chemical plant) produced [color=#0645ad]synthetic oil and [color=#0645ad]rubber (from [color=#0645ad]coal) was the beginning of [color=#0645ad]ss activity and camps in this location during [color=#0645ad]the holocaust.[[color=#0645ad]citation needed] at its peak in 1944, this factory made use of 83,000 [color=#0645ad]slave laborers.[color=#0645ad][21] the pesticide [color=#0645ad]zyklon b (infamous for its use in gas chambers during the holocaust), for which ig farben held the [color=#0645ad]patent, was manufactured by [color=#0645ad]degesch (deutsche gesellschaft für schädlingsbekämpfung), which ig farben owned 42.2 percent of (in shares) and which had ig farben managers in its managing committee. today, the plant operates as "dwory s.a." [color=#3366bb][2]frankfurtin addition to the "cavernous" [color=#0645ad]ig farben building at frankfurt, a [color=#0645ad]hoechst ag chemical factory in frankfurt was bombed by the raf on september 26, 1944.ludwigshafen and oppauthe [color=#0645ad]i.g. farbenindustrie, a. g., works, ludwigshafen and oppau had several chemical plants.pölitz, north germany (today [color=#0645ad]police, poland)in 1937, ig farben, [color=#ba0000]rhenania-ossag, and [color=#0645ad]deutsch-amerikanische petroleum gesellschaft founded the hydrierwerke pölitz ag [color=#0645ad]synthetic fuel plant.[color=#0645ad][24]:193ff by 1943, the plant produced 15% of [color=#0645ad]nazi germany's synthetic fuels, 577,000 [color=#0645ad]tons.[color=#0645ad][24]:196waldenburgan ig farben plant was at waldenburg[color=#0645ad][25]:6break-up and liquidation

due to the severity of the [color=#0645ad]war crimes committed by ig farben during [color=#0645ad]world war ii, the company was considered to be too corrupt to be allowed to continue to exist. the [color=#0645ad]soviet union seized most of ig farben's assets located in the [color=#0645ad]soviet occupation zone (see [color=#0645ad]morgenthau plan), as part of their [color=#0645ad]reparation payments. the western allies however, in 1951, split the company up into its original constituent companies. the four largest quickly bought the smaller ones. today only agfa, basf, and bayer remain, hoechst having in 1999 demerged its industrial chemical operations to celanese ag and merged its life-sciences businesses with rhône-poulenc's to form aventis.

part of hoechst was afterwards celanese ag, while another part of the company was sold in 1997 to the chemical spin-off of sandoz, the muttenz (switzerland) based clariant.

ig farben was officially put into liquidation in 1952, but this does not mean the company ceased to exist as a legal entity; up to today, it is still in existence as a corporation "in liquidation", meaning that the purpose of the continuing existence of the corporation is being wound up and dissolved orderly. as of 2010, its shares are still traded on german markets[26]. on november 10, 2003, its liquidators filed for insolvency[27], but again, this does not discontinue the existence of the company as a legal person. it had contributed 500,000 dm (£160,000 or €255,646) towards a foundation for former captive laborers under the nazi regime. the remaining property, worth dm 21 million (£6.7 million or €10.7 million), went to a buyer. during this lengthy period, the holding company had been continually criticized for failing to pay any compensation to the former laborers, which was the stated reason for its continued existence after 1952.[citation needed] the company, in turn, blamed the ongoing legal disputes with the former captive laborers as being the reason it could not be legally dissolved and the remaining assets distributed as reparations. nevertheless, it refused to join a national compensation fund that was set up in 2001 to pay people who had suffered.[28] each year, the company's annual meeting in frankfurt was the site of demonstrations by hundreds of protesters.[29]

the accused against 23 persons charges were filed. in 1945, the sentence was as follows:

carl krauch (chairman of ig farben) - 6 years because of "slavery", released in 1950, 1955 board member of huels gmbh; otto ambros (director, planning ig auschwitz) - 8 years, released in 1952, from 1954 in various executivefunctions, and pharmaceutical issues, such grünenthal than or consultant for f. k. flick; ernst burgin - 2 years; heinrich bütefisch (board member, gasoline synthesis ig auschwitz) - 6 years because of "slavery", released in 1951, 1952 board member, among others, ruhr-chemie and coal-oil chemistry; walter dürrfeld - 8 years; fritz gajewski (board member, contact to dynamit nobel ag) - acquittal, 1949 gf for dynamit nobel ag; heinrich gattineau - acquittal; paul haefner - 2 years; erich von der heyde - acquittal; heinrich hörlein - acquittal; max ilgner - 3 years; friedrich jähne (director, chief engineer) - 1 year 6 months because of "looting", 1955 board member of the "new" hoechst; august knieriem - acquittal; hans kugler - 1 year 6 months; hans kuehne - acquittal; carl lautenschlager - acquittal; rudolf wilhelm mann - acquittal; fritz ter meer (board member, administrator ig auschwitz) - 7 years because of "looting" and "enslavement", released in 1952, 1955 board member of bayer; heinrich oster - 2 years; hermann schmitz (chairman, chief financial officer) - 4 years because of "looting", released in 1950, 1952 board member of the german bank west berlin, 1956 honorary chairman of the rheinische steel works; christian schneider - acquittal; georg von schnitzler - 5 years; carl wurster (director) - acquittal, 1952 chairman of the "new" basf, etc.....

let's look at some of these companies in the news:

bayer sells hiv tainted blood products to asia and latin america

see bayer on wiki

see dr. len horowitz's article on the subject here:

http://www.healingcelebrations.com/smallpoxandanthrax.htm

see baxter on wiki

baxter admits to releasing live h5n1 virus in contaminated product to europe. (i apologise that i can't post the actual toronto sun article as it's been removed)

excerpt from wiki on merk:

"between the wars and during [color=#0645ad]world war ii, the company was led by [color=#0645ad]george w. merck, who oversaw america's germ-warfare research at fort detrick."

the evidence is there that the major pharmaceutical companies had their origins in wwii era and ig farben or had as their directors, those people who had ties to the nazi regime. there is also equal proof that the pharmaceutical companies that exist today have engaged in practices that have sought to knowingly (through cover-ups) or unknowingly (accidental release) harm people through their products. if you can still disagree with this after reading the above information and the links and call it conspiracy, then you have some very rose-colored glasses indeed.

mystcnurse, MSN, APRN, NP · Nov 6, 2010

It's very interesting that article was removed. I saw it, should have saved it. Your information is accurate, but no body really wants to know this stuff, do they? Conspiracy theorist = anyone who questions what the MSM tells you.

Wishinonastar, BSN · Nov 6, 2010

HA HA HA. Have you read about what OTHER countries have going on? This is nothing, proves nothing and is not really appropriate for this website. That is what WIKI pages are for.

Of course many of these came out of the war years, that is when all the major research and development was going on. And of course the whole thing is about money, that is what for-profit entities are all about. Without $$$ we would have no modern pharmaceutical development- the risk is too high to do it out of benevolence and to serve mankind.

Next thing you know someone will theorize that they are injecting us with nano particles that will go into our brains and make us obedient sheep to serve without questioning authority.

martinhea13 · Nov 6, 2010

It's very interesting that article was removed. I saw it, should have saved it. Your information is accurate, but no body really wants to know this stuff, do they? Conspiracy theorist = anyone who questions what the MSM tells you.

Yes, when I first saw it it was in the Sun, and I think the Washington Journal or something like that... but since then all links to those articles return 404 errors. I think that people have a hard time getting past "the Government is our friend" mentality that has programmed us to accept drug companies, oil companies, insurance companies with that same mentality. It's only once you've been wronged by the system, or you see article after article showing how these drug manufacturers make billions of dollars each year even when they withold safety data or cover-up trial data, or deny that their drugs harm people, that you can fully start your journey down the rabbit hole. Questioning everything means following the money. When you find out who profits from all this stuff, you get pretty angry. The injustice of the global corporatocracy is becoming more visible and people will finally have had enough when they've lost everything to it. Conspiracy theorists are those who ask questions.... If you're not asking questions, then you're part of the problem and not the solution.

lamazeteacher · Nov 7, 2010

Took the Medrol for three days, and the symptoms got worse. Went back to the Dr. on Thursday, and they took me off the Medrol, and put me on Cefdinir antibiotic, and drew a CBC. CBC came back Friday and my WBC count was 14,000 a bit high, but nothing to get excited about. Everything else including esinophils (allergic reactions) were within range. Mind you that I had been taking steroids for 3 days, and had a mega steroid injection that could have suppressed the esionophils.
Rash is now worse with areas on back, neck, chest, rib area, stomach, hips, buttocks, arms (pretty much everywhere). Temp at the Dr was 101.2. Rash appears as a sunburned like area with tiny itchy dots in it. It also burns, and I have shooting burning sensation in areas similar to when I had Shingles a few years ago. Supposed to go back to Dr on Monday for a recheck (with the hopes the antibiotic would make it all better.)

Coolpeach, you have a right to be warmer than "cool" about your recent experiences post vaccination. While I've found your posts interesting, I don't believe the pattern (?) of your symptoms is related to that immunization! We have been taught that it is unwise to have a flu shot while ill, yet illness may not be detectable at the time we get one. That's what I think is happening for you, and that compromising health issues got much worse after your body received that stressor. Have you discussed what outcome your doctor expects from the various treatment modalities he/she's put you on?

The CDC has a question site for professionals that would possibly provide some assistance, and I wish more of us and physicians would avail themselves of it. I would have more confidence in my care provider if that was checked while I was in the room, rather than less. Openness to not knowing is something I prize. Today it's especially impossible to know everything! Would that those who doubt the efficacy/appropriateness of mandatory prophylaxis of illness, would consult authorities on that subject and not take the resistance of some (for many reasons) as facts!!!

I'll grant you that reliance for one's living persuades many scientists that what they're advocating has appropriate emphasis, however as long as they don't take stock (in lieu of more salary) or buy it of their employer, I'm reasonably comfortable that their ethics are OK. I'm not saying that anyone in healthcare should not own stock in health providing companies, yet I'm wary of it as a motivator for promoting causes.

The ability to trust is hard won, and for many of us, the physician is "being thrown out with the bathwater", tainted by others' behavior. You need to look to see what good there is by proponents of vaccinations, too. I had an example of that recently when I wanted to stay home with my URI "bugs", but a neighbor said she had "immunity to everything" as she's a teacher being exposed to children bathed in them all the time. So I went to her house for dinner, and later she came down with the symptoms I'd had. I felt bad enough about that, but when she told me that her chronically ill homebound friend that she visits came down with similar s&s, I feel guilt ridden.

Now I know that there are others who could have communicated that current "bug" to those women (surely not the ones for which the vaccination is intended, as that is for "bugs" anticipated for January/February on....), but in the future I'll stay home rather than confront the guilt I had after going against my better judgment.

It's not just for one's own protection that yearly flu vaccinations are promoted, especially among health care workers. Now that my s&s have finally abated, I will go to the supermarket that said they have the high dose vaccine, as I'm in that senior age range for which it's recommended, (I did find out about the recommendation, from the CDC website).

It is confusing that different states have different guidelines coming from their Public Health Depts. In CA, I was told that 2 separate flu shots were required, yet here in VA, the high dose stuff is available (no, I'm not suggesting that seniors leave by the busload to get their appropriate dosage out of state). :uhoh3:

More Nonsense: I just read in a British book, that the expression regarding "throwing the baby out with the bathwater", is derived from the common custom in earlier times (around the '30s) in that country, when water wasn't available in the quantities we enjoy today. Bathwater was shared by he/she who drew the first warm kettle heated bath, who saved the water (which became cooler and cooler and dirtier and dirtier) with all the other family members, until the possibly dirty diaper wearing baby coming last, couldn't be seen for all the murk therein, and occasionally was "thrown out with the bathwater", which was thrown onto the street!

martinhea13 · Nov 7, 2010

HA HA HA. Have you read about what OTHER countries have going on? This is nothing, proves nothing and is not really appropriate for this website. That is what WIKI pages are for.
Of course many of these came out of the war years, that is when all the major research and development was going on. And of course the whole thing is about money, that is what for-profit entities are all about. Without $$$ we would have no modern pharmaceutical development- the risk is too high to do it out of benevolence and to serve mankind.
Next thing you know someone will theorize that they are injecting us with nano particles that will go into our brains and make us obedient sheep to serve without questioning authority.

Not appropriate for this site? How so? I thought the threads were on the discussion of the Flu shot issue, forced vaccinations and the ethics of "false pandemics" in order to scare people into taking a shot they don't need. Is it not imperitive to know who runs these companies and what their background is? Have you seen the statistics on personal injury cases against pharmaceutical companies.

Does it not bother you that one person (Rockefeller, his foundation, etc..) owns oil companies, medical schools and pharmaceutical companies? There's certainly no one in the US with more ownership in companies or their subsidiaries than D. Rockefeller. For me that's a little too much centralization of power and influence for my likeing.

And on your last comment, that sounds a lot like a vaccine to me!

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/05/090519172045.htm