New study on unions and wages - page 3

this is a study of all woman workers, not nurse specific, but is still pretty thought provoking - and nothing really new as it is similar to numerous other studies over the years. here's the brief... Read More

  1. Visit  Atheos profile page
    0
    Quote from Californiasunshine
    And why does the CNA keep being decertified? And the SEIU under investigation? Hmmmm.........could it be not all is well in Kansas????

    Quit making illogical leaps that make no sense.

    3-5 unions under investigation. Hundreds of unions in good standing.

    You tell me...
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  3. Visit  Californiasunshine profile page
    0
    The fact that i can be a nurse has nothing to do with a scheming industry. sorry dude we got rid of the CNA. they aint all that. I dont take care of 30 pts, i get a break, but if i dont it's my choosing because a patient needs my care.
    And I could give you a history lesson or two if you would like. unions had their place at one time, but they have become greedy and corporate. I dont need them to speak up for me. Not in this day and age. we have laws, regulatory agencies, etc. I would imagine those that so "rabidly" defend unions must reap the benefits that your members pay you for. And when that doesnt work for you anymore, you will go back to working nites.
  4. Visit  Californiasunshine profile page
    0
    The SEIU has how many members? How many does the CNA have? 2 million....85,000.......they are not 2 little unions. try unioncorruption.com and educate yourself.

    And you are quite wrong.........IT IS THE UNIONS RESPOSIBILITY TO PROTECT THE INDUSTRY. What do you pay union dues for? So they can better your wages? No, to protect the RN standard of care. You better quit while you are NOT ahead. You cant be a real nurse. You work for a union, and the members pay for your car. You misrepresent the profession.
    Last edit by sirI on Jan 4, '09 : Reason: noncontributory
  5. Visit  Atheos profile page
    0
    Quote from Californiasunshine
    The fact that i can be a nurse has nothing to do with a scheming industry. sorry dude we got rid of the CNA. they aint all that.
    No ones speaking of JUST the CNA. We are talking of unions. All of them at large.

    I dont take care of 30 pts, i get a break, but if i dont it's my choosing because a patient needs my care.
    You get those benefits BECAUSE of unions. Claiming otherwise is either a lie or horribly misinformed.


    And I could give you a history lesson or two if you would like. unions
    Well you don't seem to know where your benefits came from so...

    had their place at one time, but they have become greedy and corporate. I dont need them to speak up for me. Not in this day and age. we have laws, regulatory agencies, etc. I would imagine those that so "rabidly" defend unions must reap the benefits that your members pay you for. And when that doesnt work for you anymore, you will go back to working nites.
    Regulatory agencies? Like in the Auto and Bank industry? ROFL...

    As to rabidly defending unions... Unions are superior. Do people engage in illicit behavior? Yes but that's people... To equate corrupt people to corrupt organizations is ludicrous. Enron wasn't corrupt. It's leaders were corrupt.

    No one pays me for anything. There is no aide union here.

    You are speaking of 1 experience with one union. That hardly makes you knowledgeable about unions does it. It seems most people here are speaking of things they are told. Of course, that par for the course as far as people go though isn't it.

    Get rid of the unions, give all the power back to the corporations and see what happens. We ALL know what happens when corporations are allowed to do whatever they like. Can you say 'current economic crisis.'

    If your employer throws you under the bus you WON'T be able to stand up for yourself. You'll be under the bus.
  6. Visit  Atheos profile page
    0
    Quote from Californiasunshine
    The SEIU has how many members? How many does the CNA have? 2 million....85,000.......they are not 2 little unions. try unioncorruption.com and educate yourself.

    And you are quite wrong.........IT IS THE UNIONS RESPOSIBILITY TO PROTECT THE INDUSTRY. What do you pay union dues for? So they can better your wages? No, to protect the RN standard of care. You better quit while you are NOT ahead. You cant be a real nurse. You work for a union, and the members pay for your car. You misrepresent the profession. Silly boy.

    I NEVER said I was a nurse. I also must wonder why you have to move to insulting me...

    Makes one wonder...

    When one resorts to personal attacks it is the clearest sign they've got no substance in their argument.


    ETA: Oh silly me... New poster... I'll stop feeding it...
    Last edit by sirI on Jan 4, '09 : Reason: quoted edited post
  7. Visit  Chico David RN profile page
    1
    Quote from Californiasunshine
    The fact that i can be a nurse has nothing to do with a scheming industry. sorry dude we got rid of the CNA. they aint all that. I dont take care of 30 pts, i get a break, but if i dont it's my choosing because a patient needs my care.
    And I could give you a history lesson or two if you would like. unions had their place at one time, but they have become greedy and corporate. I dont need them to speak up for me. Not in this day and age. we have laws, regulatory agencies, etc. I would imagine those that so "rabidly" defend unions must reap the benefits that your members pay you for. And when that doesnt work for you anymore, you will go back to working nites.
    Just for a couple of doses of reality here: if you get a break, if there are laws and regulatory agencies to protect workers, it is because unions fought to create those laws and agencies. They did not just happen by magic. California's safe staffing law (the reason you don't have too many patients to care for) was 100% the work of CNA - union members and staff wrote the bill, found a legislator to carry it, drive it through the legislature - then did it all again the next year after a Republican governor vetoed the bill. A few years later, when the current governor tried to roll back part of the law, it was CNA that mobilized thousands of nurses to demonstrate and went to court to fight him - and eventually won.
    And there are active efforts by industry to overturn nearly all of the protections that unions won for workers. Just for one example, in California's current budget crisis, one of the demands of the Governor and the Republicans in the legislature is that the Democrats accept taking away the law that requires your employer to give you breaks - and they may succeed in that. Without unions to fight for them, all those laws and regulations would be history in short order.
    And on that last part, I'm a union member who pays my dues like everyone else and puts in hundreds of hours a year on bargaining team, exec board etc. as a volunteer in addition to my regular nursing job.
    talaxandra likes this.
  8. Visit  Californiasunshine profile page
    0
    So the perfect defense is an offense............why do you have RN after your name?
    I didnt insult you, I cant insult you. you talk in circles.

    I have a very long history with unions. that's plural for union. that means more than 1. I do not think that they belong in our, oh excuse me, you never said you were a nurse, the profession at this point in time. My experience is more havoc than good for the most part.

    They create animosity between the rank and file. During an election, negotiations, a strike vote, a decertification, it's never good. We have grown,
    and we are professionals. So, I thank us for growing, but I should have put all of those union dues in a shoe box under my bed, because they did not get me to where i am now.
  9. Visit  Californiasunshine profile page
    0
    Stanley, you are an aide? Why is it that you work in a non-union facility if you feel that unions are superior? Just curious. There are many facilities out there.
  10. Visit  Atheos profile page
    3
    Quote from Californiasunshine
    Stanley, you are an aide? Why is it that you work in a non-union facility if you feel that unions are superior? Just curious. There are many facilities out there.

    1. My name says RN2B -> RN Too Be

    2. There are no union facilities here in my area.

    3. I work at a nonprofit, private pay military based continuing care center. Nonprofit and military based. Prior military leadership (CEO, etc). The military model is superior than civilian models. That's just me though.

    4. I was (well technically still am) in the IBEW. I've SEEN the work from union and nonunion shops. It gets old not being given contracts because we are 'too expensive' but then get contracted to come back and fix the work done poorly by nonunion shops.

    5. More unions are good than bad. You can't equate a few doing poorly or doing things they shouldn't to all of the rest of them.

    6. Unions aren't perfect. They should change and evolve. For instance, the IBEW ended up changing many things it wanted with the times. High wages are nice butthey aren't the only thing. It's a give and take. People however aren't perfect. Some get greedy. However, the number of greedy for profit corporations far exceeds the number of greedy unions.

    7. There ARE good nonunion employers. Sure, but they are not the norm and we all know that. Those places where EVERYONE loves to work and no one leaves. My employer is like that. The people that are here have been here in terms of decades not years. But, in my time as an aide I've NEVER run into a facility like this before. 9 years to find this place...

    8. No one can stick up for themselves. We've all been railroaded by a bad employer. The only choices you have is to take it or leave. That's not a choice.

    9. Yes, there are bad employees in the unions AND it can be a pain to get rid of them. I agree that should be changed. Not all unions are like that though. Some specifically boot these people.

    10. This can go on forever. In the long run though we benefit MORE by having unions than by not having them. Should we change them? Yes, but that falls on the membership. The membership IS the union. If a union is doing bad things it is ONLY because the membership allows it.
    RN4MERCY, jsrRN, and herring_RN like this.
  11. Visit  NRSKarenRN profile page
    2
    just a reminder....

    please focus on the topic and not each person..

    debates
    we promote the idea of lively debate. this means you are free to disagree with anyone on any type of subject matter as long as your criticism is constructive and polite.



    Chico David RN and Atheos like this.
  12. Visit  Californiasunshine profile page
    0
    I guess when you do become an RN, and I wish you luck, you may see some things that you are not seeing right now.
    working with the military is something that I have never done, but have heard no different then what you have stated.

    And you are right, we can go on forever and i can state facts about unions and why at this point in time I feel we need to move forward as professionals, because our strength is in our professionalism not in unionism. My opinion as a professional and a former union advocate speaks to that.


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