New national nurses union forms - page 12

A new national union of up to 154,000 registered nurses was created in Phoenix today, replacing one of the most aggressive nurse unions in the industry and combining its membership with two other... Read More

  1. Visit  Chico David RN profile page
    4
    Quote from PICUPNP
    My argument rests in the fact that unionization shouldn't be forced on RNs. I'm a firm believer in Democracy but not the way unions use it to hide behind.
    When you say you believe in democracy, then what exactly do you mean? When a group of nurses votes by majority to unionize, when they elect by majority representatives who negotiate a union shop contract, when they ratify by majority a contract that requires union membership, the minority who want otherwise must bow to the will of the majority. That is the very essence of what democracy is. One who truly believes in democracy, still believes in it even when they don't like the result. I accept the results of the process in government, even when it elects people I don't like and forces me to pay taxes for things in which I don't believe. If I think the process is unfair, I have options to work with others to try to reform the process, but I can't just ignore the result. People who accept democracy only when the result pleases them aren't really believers in democracy.
    CMCRN, Eclectic1, herring_RN, and 1 other like this.
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  3. Visit  paacollins profile page
    0
    I wonder what this will mean for NC nurses like me. NC HATES unions.
  4. Visit  nicurn001 profile page
    3
    Quote from PICUPNP
    My argument rests in the fact that unionization shouldn't be forced on RNs. I'm a firm believer in Democracy but not the way unions use it to hide behind.
    Chico David RN has put the response eloquently in post #143 .

    Where is the forced unionization ( ie.specifically , AGAINST the nursing electorates will at a facility) you talk of ?.
  5. Visit  Eclectic1 profile page
    8
    There's a lot to swallow with this comment, isn't there? One sentence and three non sequiturs--a record. Nobody is trying to destroy all corporations, only to balance all the power that they exert over us individuals. A middle class only exists when the cost of labor is well valued. that is why we seek strength in numbers through unions... a most democratic of systems. At the end of the day it is the only way that we maintain our standard of living. One only needs to compare standards through world history to see that throwing ourselves at the mercy and good will of the mythical free-market doesn't work out too well for those of us who work for a living. Enjoy a 40hr. work-week, overtime, holidays, child labor laws, workman's comp, and retirement funds? Thank the people who democratized the work place.
    CMCRN, Hoozdo, Heogog53, and 5 others like this.
  6. Visit  Chico David RN profile page
    3
    Quote from Eclectic1
    There's a lot to swallow with this comment, isn't there? One sentence and three non sequiturs--a record. Nobody is trying to destroy all corporations, only to balance all the power that they exert over us individuals. A middle class only exists when the cost of labor is well valued. that is why we seek strength in numbers through unions... a most democratic of systems. At the end of the day it is the only way that we maintain our standard of living. One only needs to compare standards through world history to see that throwing ourselves at the mercy and good will of the mythical free-market doesn't work out too well for those of us who work for a living. Enjoy a 40hr. work-week, overtime, holidays, child labor laws, workman's comp, and retirement funds? Thank the people who democratized the work place.
    Nice to see the rare American who knows some history.
    morte, Nurse_Diane, and herring_RN like this.
  7. Visit  Chico David RN profile page
    2
    Quote from paacollins
    I wonder what this will mean for NC nurses like me. NC HATES unions.
    Oh, I suspect that North Carolina will not be on the top of the list of places to organize. But even in the conservative, southern, "right to work for less" states, there will be islands that will organize first and then it will build out from there. Prediction: among the so-called "sunbelt" states, Florida, Arizona, Texas and Nevada will be the centers of action in the next few years, then once solid bases are built there, organizing activity will fan out from there. People have had so much anti-union propaganda fed to them for the last 50 years, that they usually need to see some examples of unions at work close up before they get the reality. That's why there is so much activity in Nevada right now. The nurses there can see the example of California nearby and see what organizing has meant to California nurses.
    herring_RN and Eclectic1 like this.
  8. Visit  Nurse_Diane profile page
    2
    Quote from Mike SIE
    Above all when ever called in to yoiur supervisor ask if this meeting will involve any disciplinary action. If he says it will cancel the meeting untill you can have a union repo go in with you..
    absolutely....
    Chico David RN and herring_RN like this.
  9. Visit  Eclectic1 profile page
    6
    additionally everyone needs to realize that those at the top of management have contracts! yes contracts, just like the ones that they seek to deny the workers! also they join together in groups--unionize if you will-- but they call it the chamber of commerce or various lobbying groups, and they hire some folks to post on web-sites (like this one) acting all concerned (aka concern trolls). too often they use their collective strength against the workforce long before any individual can act. ceo's get bonuses not just for promoting the long-term success, but for short term profits! profits that are too often realized from borrowing against assets, breaking companies apart, and then bankrupting. there are more accounting scams than can be noted here, but the bottom line is the only way we defend ourselves as a middleclass is through the democratic process of organizing. friends, there might have been a more innocent time when we could just trust in the goodwill of strangers like blanche dubois, but today too many companies profit through tricks and traps, many of which you never see until it is too late. we've all seen it happen to others. it takes a huge dose of cognitive dissonance to ignore the possibility of being their next victim.
    Heogog53, karenchad, herring_RN, and 3 others like this.
  10. Visit  schroeders_piano profile page
    0
    I've read all the posts on here and I find it funny that some who are in support of unions have decried the fact that CEOs are making thousands of dollars at the worker's expense. Yet, these same people are not crying out at the fact that union leaders are making thousands of dollars as well.

    I am not a union supporter. There will be no Norma Rae moment for me where I jump up on the nurse's station and hold sign saying "union". The reason I am not a union supporter is because I have seen the bad side of being a union member.

    I am also not a union supporter because many times unions become too political. Instead of spending time and resources on it's union members, many unions are focusing in on supporting politicians and legislation. I can't be a part of something that may support a politician or a piece of legislation that I don't agree with.

    Some have used the UAW and the auto industry as examples in support of and against unions. Although the collapse of the auto industry cannot solely be placed on the UAW, the UAW shares part of the blame. At a time when the auto industry needed the union to be flexible, the UAW was unwilling to bend.

    Start the flaming now.
  11. Visit  lamazeteacher profile page
    3
    Quote from PICUPNP
    I love how you keep skirting around the issue. If you have to pay dues to be employed, that is forced unionism. It's absolutely ridiculous to have to pay for employment. This has nothing to do with democracy, just simple facts.
    One could also call paying taxes on money earned, paying for employment. That's mandatory, paying union dues isn't! A democracy assures that all people have equal opportunity, not freedom from paying any fees arising from their employment or professional affiliation! We also pay Medicare, unemployment insurance, etc., etc. :spin:
  12. Visit  lamazeteacher profile page
    3
    Quote from picupnp
    some of my stance is about $$$$. it's those dollars that we work so hard to earn and support ourselves. conversely, i don't know any nurses making the $200k/yr like your united union leader.
    what proof have you of that claim?

    the other part of my stance revolves directly around forcing nurses to pay dues. it's ridiculous. how so?

    especially dues that contribute to someone making exponentially more money than those who are paying them.how do you know that? i know that you all (?) like to hide behind the "democratic process" as a way to explain the closed shop issue, but it is forced unionism regardless of what is said on this forum. i, for one, am glad that there are organizations out there making it hard for you to spread your union nationwide.
    it seems that the accusations you've hurled at unions, are unfounded. prove your points, or don't make them.
    karenchad, morte, and Jerry 75 like this.
  13. Visit  heron profile page
    7
    Quote from PICUPNP
    My argument rests in the fact that unionization shouldn't be forced on RNs. I'm a firm believer in Democracy but not the way unions use it to hide behind.
    It seems you also believe that, since you should be able to work in a union shop without joining a union, you somehow are entitled to the benefits of their contract without any obligation on your part.

    In other words, a handout.
    Nurse_Diane, Jerry 75, karenchad, and 4 others like this.
  14. Visit  heron profile page
    9
    Quote from schroeders_piano

    Some have used the UAW and the auto industry as examples in support of and against unions. Although the collapse of the auto industry cannot solely be placed on the UAW, the UAW shares part of the blame. At a time when the auto industry needed the union to be flexible, the UAW was unwilling to bend.

    Start the flaming now.
    No flaming here, but this isn't quite true. When the auto industry was crying the blues, the unions had already agreed to major rollbacks.

    I can't for the life of me figure out why it's the union's fault that management made lousy decisions about marketing, design and corporate structure.

    ETA ... as for the bad side of unions, there surely is one. The difference is that while I can't fire an idiot in management, I can fire an idiot in my union. In every union I've been in, the local officials and reps are elected. If you have a bad, unresponsive union, do something about it. Don't wait for it to be done for you.
    Last edit by heron on Dec 31, '09
    CMCRN, Heogog53, Jerry 75, and 6 others like this.


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