I don't get it...CNA Ohio

[Miss Mab]

Seriously, I'm not being sarcastic, perhaps a bit dense but:

There's so much dramatic verbiage surrounding the happenings there i.e., taking food from kids mouths, crushing dreams and three years toil in smithereens and as a CNA member myself I ought to be applying a red A to my chest....etc.

Without weighing in too much on how I read what happened there(and it does sound like after three years of working so vociferously it seems a bit shady that most of the actual nurses didn't appear to know about the election even happening until very late in the game and they were then prohibited from discussing it (?) but that's really not my point)

Why can't the SEIU and all the workers who invested all that hard work just reschedule another election date?

Soon.

Because all the work has been done already.

And everybody's there.

And now there's no way to claim secret deals.

No possibility that an RN wouldn't know exactly what they were voting for or against this time or why.

Is there some rule I missed 'cause I really did try to read all of the different threads. I'm being serious, I really don't get it exactly.

And I know it's not 'cause the unions can't handle the additional time or work involved. I mean, say what you will about CNA, but damn they are one busy group of nurses.

In the last few days, they were involved in this Ohio thing, got a local county hospital here to withdraw their own strike call and keep negotiating, ratified a pretty nifty new contract for thousands of UC nurses while also continuing to execute the final plans for the 10 day Sutter strike that starts this weekend.

I don't like some of what they do with my $$, either, but I 'll sure never accuse 'em of being lazy....

I honestly wish the best for those in Ohio:redbeathe

[NRSKarenRN, BSN, RN]

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[Organize1199]

Alright Chico David,

Fair enough. Let's chill for awhile. I'll own my participation, and in particular you have my apology for calling Rose Ann DeMoro a "nut" in this venue, which certainly should be a more positive place.

But what's good for the goose is good for the gander. I'd ask you to own up to the CNA's part. It's just not fair to say that I have "devolved" the conversation. It started so low down in the gutter, there was nowhere lower to go. Let's take a moment, without getting riled up again, just to debrief the conflict & try to develop a more positive way forward.

Our conversation began with a March 9th post from the CNA, here:

https://allnurses.com/forums/f167/attention-chp-ohio-rn-s-287639.html#post2706146

The post was actually a part of CNA's Vote No campaign. It was an article which called us a corrupt, "company union", "scheming" with the boss to "Silence RNs" and "Force RNs" to join our union. It was directed to Ohio nurses who were set to vote three days later. The poster physically participated in the CNA union-busting operation the same day she posted it, in Springfield Ohio.

Let's just recognize that this space cannot be positive if the CNA uses it to help run a VOTE NO. It is also very negative when CNA organizers use this site to promote division and disunity. I'm talking in particular about CNA organizers posting things like "SEIU Agrees to Gag Nursing Home Workers". It's dishonest and is posted for one reason only, to divide us from each other. It only serves the boss.

I want to ask you, Chico David, as a CNA leader. In the interests of keeping this space positive and constructive, can you agree to some ground rules?

* Don't use this venue as part of a union busting or raiding campaign

* Don't use this venue to trash SEIU (or UAN, ANA, or other unions)

* Don't use this venue to insult, demean or belittle SEIU members

* Check facts before posting anything that has anything to do with SEIU.

In particular, if CNA would give SEIU a chance to respond offline before making public, inflammatory statements - that would go a long way.

Peace.

[Chico David, BSN, RN]

From Organize1199:

I want to ask you, Chico David, as a CNA leader. In the interests of keeping this space positive and constructive, can you agree to some ground rules?

* Don't use this venue as part of a union busting or raiding campaign

* Don't use this venue to trash SEIU (or UAN, ANA, or other unions)

* Don't use this venue to insult, demean or belittle SEIU members

* Check facts before posting anything that has anything to do with SEIU.

In particular, if CNA would give SEIU a chance to respond offline before making public, inflammatory statements - that would go a long way.

But that would, naturally require reciprocation on your part, with CNA/NNOC substituted for SEIU etc in all of the above points. Then, of course, we run into issues of definition - When many members of another union contact us for help in getting out, is that a "raid" - or a rescue? Is "trashing" synonymous with "critique"? If I quote a union leader's own words - as pubished in a nationally known newspaper or their own writings - to illustrate their beliefs, is that illegitimate? Am I allowed to quote their internal critics, or only their supporters? What's considered a sufficient fact check, when there may be no truly unbiased sources?

such devilish details.

No, I don't think I'll agree to your rules. I'll abide by the rules of the site as best I am able, you do the same, and we'll let the managers of the site be the judge whether either of us transgresses them. It is, after all their site and their rules, not either of ours.

[SEIU PSYCH RN]

Chico says: "Oh, I almost forgot: On the clarification you asked for, I meant the sudden massive SEIU presence on this site. All joined this month just for the purpose of attacking CNA."

Your organizers used allnurses as part of your VOTE NO campaign. On March 9, an anti-union CNA organizer (who personally passed out anti-union pamphlets at a Springfield, Ohio CHP hospital) posted "Attention CHP Ohio RN's" on the Ohio regional section of this site, here:

https://allnurses.com/forums/f167/attention-chp-ohio-rn-s-287639.html

The article employs the divisive language of separating RNs from other employees ("CHP RNs deserve to be part of a professional RN union, not a Service Employees union." - your emphasis, not mine). The post says "VOTE NO" at least five times. It is followed by numerous "replies" by other CNA spokespersons.

The article is foaming at the mouth with hatred and jam-packed with lie after lie after lie.

That was March 9th. SEIU supporters begin responding on March 12. It's time to bust out those critical thinking skills you've been touting...

With respect to your belittling and demeaning the three-year effort of the women and men who have driven this campaign - the hundred and fifty CHP workers who marched on the boss at his Cincinatti headquarters, in April 2005; the (many) hundreds who have participated in town hall meetings, ballot initiatives and so forth - you ought to be ashamed.

Chico also says:

...none of what they said or handed out was "anti-union". It was anti-

YOUR

union.

During an organizing drive, management frequently argues that it isn't all unions, but THIS union. They fill literature with lies about the union, and gerenally seek to divide workers, break solidarity and destroy hope. That's what you did. It's called union-busting, and nothing could be more anti-union.

SO help me understand anti-your union is not anti-union

[Chico David, BSN, RN]

from SEIU PSYCH RN:

SO help me understand anti-your union is not anti-union

I'll give a short answer, even though I think most nurses can get the distinction without needing it spelled out for them. There's a big difference between these two messages:

1. Unions are bad.

2. This is not the best union for you, you deserve better.

But that's the last I'm going to engage on this subject tonight, because I am just having too much fun savoring our incredible organizing victory in Texas, which you can read about here:

https://allnurses.com/forums/f323/incredible-cna-nnoc-victory-houston-291972.html

And, before anyone asks, this was won under an organizing agreement, but a VERY different organizing agreement than what SEIU had in Ohio.

[Organize1199]

I am glad the Tenet nurses decided to form a union and I congratulate them on their victory. After the years of work SEIU put into winning the agreement, it would be heartbreaking to lose.

https://allnurses.com/forums/f195/ohio-rn-s-launch-radio-ad-285506.html#post2713829

[RN Power Ohio]

"RN Power",

You drove down from your Cleveland law firm to stop hospital workers from organizing a union. You betrayed 8,000 Ohio families. Have you no sense of decency, of right and wrong? Can you even distinguish the truth from the lies you've been repeating?

Oraganize 1199,

As we are all setting the record straight on these forums. I would like to do so here. You did a "google" search and decided you know enough about me to make comments about me and other NNOC Ohio members.

I am a registered nurse- are you?

For years, I spoke out in my workplace as a patient advocate and went up against the hospital time and time again. Have you?

I worked in a "world class hospital" and watched as the roof caved in on my patients (literally) while new and illustrious buildings were being built all around them. Yet everytime it rained the ceiling in my unit leaked on the patients who were predominantly uninsured- got wet! Yet again, I raised issue for my patients.

I witnessed the loss of dignity that my patients suffered because I was unable to care for them appropriately.

I decided to defend the patients I saw being injured day after day. As an independent consultant- I am proud to say that I work with some of the most respected plaintiff attorneys in the state of Ohio and the US. Through my work I have the priviledge of educating the brightest attorneys about the most complex theories in medicine and standards of care- ensuring that only meritorious claims see the light of day in the court room.

I discovered that the corruption of the hospital runs deeper than failure to staff appropriately. I have sat in court rooms where I heard the hospital defend itself using their own negligence as a defense! "You see jury- there is no way the RN could have checked the vital signs she had 13 post op patients to care for! How can a nurse be everywhere at once. This is why the patient was sent home with a blood pressure of 70/30" By the way tha man died. Not by fault of the RN but by negligence of a hospital who took no responsibility to ensure safe care environment. There is a standard of care for nurse staffing- and it is to staff unsafely! I believe that patients deserve better than this and am an advocate for ratio legislation in Ohio.

I have seen the way that tort reform has prevented all but the most severely injured and deceased from getting any sort of financial assistance for the injuries inflicted upon them. I have learned that the value of all lives are not equal in the eyes of the hospital and insurance industry. I have spoken with hundreds who are financially devestated because of the bills these unnecessary incidents have incurred.

Doesn't SEIU lobby for tort reform on behalf of hospitals and nursing homes so that people who are injured can't seek retribution for neglect, injury and death?? Tell me about the "deal" SEIU has made in Florida for it's staffing bill and in California for the right to organize nursing home workers?? Why are you taking away injured patients rights when you could be using your "power" to be sure that the care environment is safe. This is what SEIU "partnerships" do for American citizens. http://www.sfweekly.com/2004-06-30/news/partners-in-slime/

I am proud of what I do. You can try to make it sound negative- SEIU would as an advocate of undermining peoples rights and in the process undermining human rights. I am proud to be an NNOC Ohio activist, a direct-care registered nurse, a legal nurse consultant, a voice for guaranteed healthcare, an open and public patient advocate, an independent business professional. As Justice4Peace told you- your comments truly shine the light on how little you know about nurses our profession and the contributions we make to our communities.

It is for these reasons that I will stand out in a blizard with my toes numb while getting called names and enduring harrassment of SEIU organizers to expose a sham election that undermines union democracy.

[Organize1199]

A secret ballot election, administered by the NLRB. You need 50% + 1 for the union, to get the union. There are separate elections for each of 54 units which were voting.

Ground rules:

- No harassment from the employer

- No harassment from the union

- Each side sent a position paper to workers about why to vote their way

- Each side staffed an 800 number, so workers could talk to both or either side if they want to

- Workers can do whatever they want, as long as they are not supervisors (e.g., run VOTE YES or VOTE NO campaigns)

It is the most democratic format for a union election that has ever been devised.

There's just one thing CNA didn't like - they couldn't figure out how to raid it. Why was SEIU on the ballot, and not CNA? Well, heck why not UAW, ONA, UAN, NYSNA, the Teamsters, the Amalgamated Bakery Workers, the KY Nurses Association - why not put dozens of unions on the ballot?

SEIU ran a three-year campaign, which CNA did not participate in at all. CNA had no more business raiding in Ohio than any of those other unions.

Sorry, but if you don't campaign, you sometimes don't get to be on the ballot. Those are American democratic values.

[kam11882]

First, let me say that I am not an RN, but work closely with RNs. As such, I read allnurses religiously, but refrain from posing or replying. This is the first time I've posted at all.

My question is Organize1199-- are you a nurse?

[micurn55]

I find much of the language used by pro-CNA/NNOC posters on this site to describe SEIU troubling. (i.e. SEIU hurts human rights, SEIU is sleazy, SEIU is against patients.) This incredibly negative hateful language contrasts sharply with the posts by SEIU members, who seem to love their organization and to have made great strides with it.

To me, the question is why is the CNA/NNOC so focussed on SEIU, literally to the point of foaming at the mouth when this organization is mentioned in a positive light? Isn't the purpose of the CNA/NNOC to help nurses rise standards? To me, if that is the goal of the CNA/NNOC, it should focus on uniting nurses and not on tearing down SEIU.

By the way, I think there are a lot of posters on this site who are not nurses (both pro-CNA and pro-SEIU). No real way to regulate it on a website like this.

[SEIU PSYCH RN]

CNA is an organization who only organizes Rn's. We believe we are all stronger together. At my hospital we represent all professionals including Social Workers, Doctor's. Nurses. Pharmacist, and Sami counselors to name a few. They do not care about any other worker's, They prefer these nurses have no union because they want their brother and sisters to be a part of the process.

[SEIU PSYCH RN]

Those were not SEIU organizers you encountered they were not allowed to be there. These were the worker's who had fought for three years to get the chance to vote whichyou interferred with.