Okay, lets say someone DOESN"T get accepted into CRNA school the first time around...

Roland · Feb 11, 2004

Also, I decided to go back to the very beginning of this forum and reread all of the posts, in an effort to mine some gems of arcane wisdom. I came across this post, and was wondering if it was still relevent advice. If so how widely available is PACU training in most ICU's?

Join Date: Dec 2001

Posts: 3 Dantedressage,

It doesn't matter where or when you recieved your one year critical care experience. You should be working there now and gaining as much experience as possible.

Really, the final say comes from your personal interview...it's grueling and it's actually like a verbal boards type thing. However, if you really do well and know your business, sell yourself as the best, the interviewers will want you in regardless of how you went about it.

Get your ICU experience now & continue to work there until you quit, or if you want a change, switch to PACU after you have strong ICU experience...PACU experience is another plus because your already familiar with dealing the P/O complications of anesthesia, it's one on one usually, your used to the drugs etc...don't eliminate that possibility, especially good if your hospital recovers the critical care patients....Good luck & I hope to see you in the CRNA world

loisane · Feb 11, 2004

In my experiences with admissions committees, current ICU experience is prefered. PACU experience is not as desirable (although I have read different opinions on this, here on this board). NP won't matter either way. Just the way it looks, in my neck of the woods.

loisane crna

TraumaNurse · Feb 11, 2004

I have also heard the opinion that going for your NP after being turned down for CRNA does not show dedication to the anesthesia profession and may be looked down upon if you are reapplying to CRNA school. I think, if you really want to be an anesthetist, for round two, take a couple of graduate classes as a non-matriculated student that will go towards your program when you do get in. Also, if you don't have it already, get your CCRN, get more ICU experience and do some another things that proves your interest and dedication to the anesthesia profession. If you are turned down for a position in a CRNA program, ask the director what you can do to improve your application for next year...whatever they tell you...do it!

CRNA, DNSc · Feb 12, 2004

If you go for your NP and earn an MSN you have just thrown a possible wrench in the works!!!! If you earn a MSN and the anesthesia program you are applying to grants an MSN- they may not be able to admit you because they can not grant a second same degree. Unless they have a post-masters certificate program you might be out of luck at that school. I also agree that if you are not accepted and instead go for an NP- what does that say to an admissions committee about how much you want to be a nurse anesthetist??? :rolleyes:

Roland · Feb 12, 2004

I think you guys are correct, and you didn't even mention possible ramifications on financial aid. However, logically I would argue to the admissions committee that getting an ACUTE care NP degree (and getting good grades of course) while still employed as an ICU nurse, was fairly impressive. I would defy them to logically explain how advanced pathophysiology and pharmacy classes (such as the ones that you take in a good acute care NP program) could do ANYTHING, but to make me better prepaired for CRNA school. I would then go on to explain that I took the NP classes to ensure that my family could at least make an adequate living, in the event I was NOT able to get accepted into a CRNA program. I might point out that were they in my shoes, with a child and family to worry about, that they might do the same. Of course, they would then call security to have me escorted from the building! That is exactly why (in addition to her superior clinical skills) that I think my wife has a better shot at becoming a CRNA.

Seriously, thanks for the input it may have saved us from a mistake that we would regret for the rest of our lives. How many times would you try to apply to CRNA programs (let's say you tried for four programs each year), until you accepted that you probably were not going to get accepted and move on to something else (such as NP school). I'm thinking if after about three years of doing your best (that would be twelve schools) that it might be best to accept that it's just not meant to happen. This also brings up the question of whether or not you would maximize your chances for success by reapplying to the same programs that rejected you the last time or different ones. One of the challenges is knowing exactly WHICH programs are the toughest to get into. A medical school student might after being rejected by Duke and John Hopkins apply to IU's School of Medicine, because he could evaluate data (such as average GPA and MCAT scores) which would tell him that he had a better chance of being accepted at that institution. However, with CRNA schools this data (at least in my experience) is harder to come by.

Roland · Feb 12, 2004

What I'm really looking for are some of those "secret nuggets" that exist in almost every field, but which you usually don't learn about until it's too late. Consider, several years ago I considered attending Pharmacy school at Butler (I decided against it because of finances, 25K for four years AFTER being accepted was just too steep). I agonized in two semesters of calculus knowing that I really needed A's (or at the very least B+'s) to be competitive since the average entering GPA was around 3.6 . In addition, they had relatively high PCAT score requirements. Imagine, how I felt when I learned that IF I had completed my FIRST two years of pre-pharmacy work at Butler, I would have been GUARANTEED entrance into their pharmacy school by scoring a 2.5 GPA or better! I'm not saying that there are CRNA "hints" this profound, but there are seemingly little things (such as whether or not to reapply to the same schools that declined you again or to apply to different ones) that can probably make a big difference.

TraumaNurse · Feb 12, 2004

I think you have to be careful not to overthink everything! Mental masterbation can sometimes be detrimental! I don't think there are a lot of 'hidden nuggets' in applying for CRNA school. Each school looks for different things in it's students. You must meet and usually exceed the minimums for all the schools requirements. The more experience, credentials and academic achievement one demonstrates, the better the chances of being accepted to any program. There are too many 'what ifs...' Don't obcess over all the possible scenarios during the application process. Do your best and relax.

Roland · Feb 13, 2004

best you can for all contingencies. I consider this to be long term "intelligence gathering" for a battle several years in the future which will play a large role in shaping our future destiny. My wife and I gave up a financially successful mortgage and residential appraisal business to pursue our dreams of becoming CRNA's (we went from earning over 100K per year to our current income of about 15K as students). I have male friends who spend ten hours a week on their FANTASY FOOTBALL teams, and an equal amount playing tournament Poker. Consider, for instance that I would almost guarentee you that there ARE certain CRNA schools which are easier to gain acceptance into than others. Part of my mission over the next several years is to ascertain those schools (obviously we are only talking about accredidated programs here). Consider also if we took two groups of a thousand "theoretical" CRNA applicants and had them either reapply to the same programs after being initially rejected OR applying to different programs after being turned down the first time we very well might find a significant difference in success rates. Even if that difference is only ten or twenty percent that could be HUGE. Consider, that in medicine a pharmacy company might earn BILLIONS for an antibiotic that was ten or twenty percent more successful in fighting a deadly infection than the best one currently on the market (just ask Eli Lilly).

Let me give you a real life example of how little known information can make a big difference. I know of someone who applied to an ASN program and did NOT get accepted despite having a 3.5 GPA in her prerequisite classes. She applied to a program that also used the NET examination in the admissions process. What she may not have known is that a "C" applicant, with a 90th percentile NET score is MORE competitive than an "A" applicant with a 70th percentile NET score at that institution. Had she realized this she might have applied to one of the local nursing programs that DO NOT utilize the NET examination, and almost certainly been accepted. There is no way to ensure success outside of God's will. However, failure to plan extensively invariably increases your odds of failure in most cases. Finally, you may rest assured that any helpful information that I obtain will be posted in this forum for the benefit of future CRNA applicants.

I think you have to be careful not to overthink everything! Mental masterbation can sometimes be detrimental! I don't think there are a lot of 'hidden nuggets' in applying for CRNA school. Each school looks for different things in it's students. You must meet and usually exceed the minimums for all the schools requirements. The more experience, credentials and academic achievement one demonstrates, the better the chances of being accepted to any program. There are too many 'what ifs...' Don't obcess over all the possible scenarios during the application process. Do your best and relax.

TraumaNurse · Feb 13, 2004

Roland,

One of the points I was making is that in order to be successful, it is best to be well rounded. There are plenty of people with 3.5 or better GPAs that will never get into CRNA school because they may lack other key ingredients (maybe GRE, experience, attitude, interview skills).

Also, one of the schools I interviewed at that I thought was the 'easiest' school to get in and I considered my shoe-in, I did not get in. I am #2 on the wait list. On the other hand, I was accepted at both of the other schools I applied to which were by most standards 'harder to get in to'.

Some schools are more competitive than others based on the number of applicants and number of students accepted. The more competition, the harder the school is to get into. So, if you are looking for a 'nugget', look for schools that have a good - number of applicants : accepted students ratio.

Roland · Feb 13, 2004

One of the reasons that I "dug up" the Major Evans post is that I intend to use it as a basis to find out exactly the type of information that you are referencing. Hopefully, the schools on his list will respond to me AND give me permission to "publish" on this forum, and useful information. IF they do it will serve as a reference for myself and others in the years to come (although it will need to be updated on a regular basis since many issues such applicant to accepted ratios are always in a state of flux). I hope to be able to "push" some of these schools not unlike a good investigative journalist to "spill the beans" on information that is not normally available.

deepz · Feb 13, 2004

.....I would defy them to logically explain how advanced pathophysiology and pharmacy classes ... could do ANYTHING, but to make me better prepaired for CRNA school. I would then go on to explain that ....

Wow. You would defy them to explain to you? You would then explain XYZ to them?

I would really advise against taking that sort of tone with any admissions board, or attempting to filch from CRNA schools 'nuggets' of intelligence which might grease the skids for your acceptance. You're more likely to skid on out the door with such a confrontational attitude, dude.

Do the work, get the grades, get accepted. Nothing trumps substance. Over-intellectualizing the process won't help.

JMHO deepz