Okay, lets say someone DOESN"T get accepted into CRNA school the first time around...

jonas42 · Feb 13, 2004

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Roland · Feb 14, 2004

deepz, I was using a bit of humor as a rhetorical tool. This was indicated by the fact that I mentioned that THEY would then call security. I was trying to illustrate what I believe to be the absurdity of any admissions board that wouldn't consider being an acute care advanced practice nurse to be a PLUS. Seriously, I DO believe the posters who tell me that it wouldn't help, and would probably hurt our chances of being accepted. However, I still can't understand how advanced pharmacy,pathophysiology and accessment classes (such as those that you get in a good NP program) wouldn't make someone a superior applicant (assuming they still had current ICU experience, meaning that they worked while getting their NP cert). Doesn't it bother you if that really is the case from the standpoint of logic? Maybe, I am missing something in my analysis and there are valid reasons WHY getting an acute care NP cert. WOULDN'T tend to make a better CRNA.

More likely, it's not a matter of logic, just the way things are (just as I heard it said many times that being a nurse and applying to Medical school makes things more difficult, even though the experience should be helpful cetaris paribus). I know that not everything is logical, but it still grates at me.

The point about asking tough questions from CRNA schools is also well taken. However, I want to as Bill O'Reilly says get them "out of there spinning mode". I want the real scoop, the stuff that they might tell there friends while having a drink after work, but not put in their press releases. Then I want to take that information and make it available to anyone (not just me) who has the desire to take advantage of such information. As much as I want to succeed I want THOSE type of people to also get accepted (this attitude burns my wife because she believes that charity starts at home when things are rough). Maybe this is the LIBERAL coming out in me since she says that despite my conservative rants, that I'm a classic bleeding heart in her analysis (she is a true conservative through and through). The bottom line is that I want to obtain this information, I don't want to do it in a way that will jeopardize my (or even worse her) chances of being accepted. If that makes me a "weanie" then that's how it will have to be.

gaspassah · Feb 14, 2004

in my opinion, as humble as it is, is that some panels think that ppl with multiple degrees sometimes appear to be searching for something, rather than committed to what they are doing. ie i wasnt satisfied as a nurse, so i tried np, not satisfied with np so i tried crna, not satisfied so i tried ____ . in my short anesthesia experience i find that CRNA schools really want dedication to the profession, and ppl that are going to want to stay in the profession. i have never done the np route, but i'm not sure that the preceptorship in the np arena is as severe as the anesthesia arena (or has the ability to be). if someone is not dedicated to "surviving" anesthesia school then a spot is wasted for the next guy who would have sacrificed anything to be in that spot. and i can tell you, there are preceptors who can make a students life hell in clinical, if you arent prepared everday you step into the OR. it is difficult sometimes for an adult learner to be told, example "what do you mean you don't know if pavulon has byproducts, how can you come in this OR and not know how the drugs you are giving work"...etc etc..= clinical unsatisfactory. without that dedication some ppl quit, not what the entrance committees are looking for.

this is just an example, but i thought it may be an angle you may not have looked at roland.

not trying to start anything, just another view,

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TraumaNurse · Feb 14, 2004

Roland,

I think that what would help your chances of getting in would be to take those courses as a non-matriculated student instead of enrolling in an NP program. Most of the core nursing courses overlap for all APNs including anesthesia. A friend of mine did not get accepted to the CRNA program last year so she took Adv. Pharm and adv. Patho as a non-matriculated student. She has been accepted to the program this year and starts with me in May and now has 2 less courses to take. I think it's a bad idea to pursue another degree but a great idea to show you can do well in graduate nursing courses by taking them as non-matric.

Roland · Feb 14, 2004

Taking the courses as a non-matriculated student is a great idea. Gas P. I think that your analysis is also right on. However, I would explain (to the admissions board) that my primary motivation for pursueing anesthesia rather than working as an NP was monetary, basically a business decision. I am sure that this would have negative ramifications for my chances, but it would be the truth. Why do we look negatively upon individuals for making "business decisions". Virtually every corporation in the United States, makes the majority of their decisions based upon financial ramifications. Indeed, if they didn't do so they would be held to account by their stockholders. Thus, a company like Eli Lilly or Pfizer might decide to get out of the vaccine business because it was less profitable than say the anti-dipressant business. In addition, to the extent that many Americans invest in these corporations to acquire wealth (say for retirement) they are endorsing this ethos. Of course I am not advocating making decisions that are not ethical for the sake of profit. That is a seperate discussion entirely. In fact, I would go so far as to say that when corporations like Enron act unethically that they are acting as traitors to our very economic system and should be treated the same way that we treat political traitors.

However, when individuals state their plain intentions of doing something substancially "for the money" we often look upon them negatively. I want to become a CRNA, and have my wife do the same primarily for the monetary and professional rewards. In the event that we are successful I hope to be able to parley that revenue into some sort of business or invention which can earn us even greater revenues. I believe that I could use such wealth to accomplish worthy objectives. Imagine for instance if Ted Turner instead of simply prattling away a billion dollars to the United Nations (where according to many calculations more than 50% is eaten by administative costs) he had instead established a corporation who's profits were dedicated to funding a worthy cause such as a chain of high quality private schools orientated towards depressed urban areas? This concept of "self sustaining charities" is unfortunately seldom utilized by the wealthy in America. Another example would be Oprah establishing a chain of retail outlets the profits of which would fund her plan for schools in Africa perpetually, rather than until her generous donations were exhausted.

Of course I realize my odds of becoming sufficently wealthy to implement these types of grand proposals are remote (indeed I calculate the odds of BOTH of us even becoming CRNA's much less parleying that revenue exponentially as less than one in twenty given optimal execution). However, this represents my best shot at obtaining my objectives. Furthermore, even if we fall short, having a nice apartment in Hawaii, and perhaps funding a free primary health care clinic or two wouldn't be so bad (of course the clinics would also sell health related items, in keeping with my self sustaining principals which I believe are key to expanding private charitable efforts in America). I dream of an America so vibrant with effective, charitable, private initiatives that those who seek to shackle us with the chains of Socialism in the name of necessity are relegated into the shadows of civic debate.

I suspect that many people who want to be CRNA's and M.D.'s are also motivated in large part by financial reward. However, they are usually reticent to articulate their true motivations without "spinning". To me it just goes to show how far we have swayed from the traditions upon which this nation was founded which is to say the pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness (as we define it). I believe with all my heart that if everyone pursues their vision of happiness (which may or may not be economic) in an ethical manner, that EVERYONE will tend to experience an enhanced lifestyle.

Berliner · Feb 15, 2004

The only problem, Roland, is you may never get to "explain" anything. You'll have the ACNP/ MSN already in your apps and they may just skip over you because they don't have a post-masters program/ abilities. As I have posted in many of your threads, I have an MSN and it was a huge problem in my application. I had a drag out fight to just be allowed to apply. I am finding out this week as to what other elements of my application weren't up to snuff and will let you know if the MSN was still a factor.

Roland · Feb 15, 2004

Berliner, I think you are correct. I thought the first advice was also correct. I was offering my diatribe to a hypothetical admissions board to see what would be the logical response. One of my points is that there may not be one! It may just be that like one poster said getting an ACNP somehow (in their minds) means you are less committed to being a CRNA. You can sometimes win the argument and lose the war (kind of like understanding that those who have the gold make the rules). I guess I was hoping that over time, just maybe someone in a position to make a difference would read my argument, perhaps agree, and then pass it on to others. You can sometimes effect change just by serving up items in the marketplace of ideas (of course this is usually not the case).

The advice to take courses as a non-matriculated student was really helpful. This was something that I didn't prevously know (at least not at a concious level) and it is something that should probably be applied my many (if not most) people who want to be CRNA's, but are not accepted the first time around.