Anti-CRNA website= such B.S.!!!!

Specialties CRNA

Published

Has anyone seen the grossly misinformed website called "Doctor by your side" ????

Website is a complete joke. I was just looking at it and the misrepresentation of MDA's vs. CRNA's is pretty disgusting. It's sad that this is an actual website for the public...another area for people to be misinformed and then form wrong opinions about CRNAs. :mad::mad::mad:

Specializes in Anesthesia, Pain, Emergency Medicine.

And don't forget. Most CRNA programs are year round schools. Mine was 3 semesters per year for a total of 7 semesters.

And that is 8-10 hr days.

There are NO online CRNA programs. The ones in new england/mid atlantic areas are 28-36 months....Some SRNAs do over 500-1,000 O.R. cases and a TON of clinicals hourse dealing with real patients and real anesthetics. So much training, and they make it seem so small and miniscule.
Specializes in cardiac, ICU, education.

Deleted and changed below

Specializes in cardiac, ICU, education.
Altogether to become a CRNA, it requires just about/ nearly the same amount of education and training as an MD.

Although I didn't read the website, MD's require a great deal more.

MD = 12-13 years

Accreditation Council for Medical Education http://www.acgme.org/acWebsite/downloads/RRC_progReq/040_anesthesiology_f07012011.pdf

4 years undergrad with requirements in science. Calc, microbiology, physics, etc.

4 years medical school with only a few weeks off in summer until junior year then year round.

1 year internship usually in internal medicine in hospital setting

3 years anesthesia residency with 65 hours/wk plus (the residents in our program work approx. 70-80 hours/wk)

Now about 40% residents doing another year in a anesthesia fellowship (cardiac, OB, peds, etc.)

CRNA= 7 years academic

4 years nursing school

1 year ICU experience

3 year DNP

According to the AANA

http://www.everhadgas.com/CRNA-AA_Comparison_Table_update_208.pdf

"Transcript data from nurse anesthesia students who were candidates for the 2006 national certification examination shows that the average number of

anesthetics administered was 836 over an average of 1,748 hours of anesthesia time."

MD residents over three years require a minimum of 500 anesthetics per year (1500 total) and 2,500 hours per year (7500 hours total) of anesthetic time. This does not include their internal med year.

I have no problem with CRNA's, one put my daughter to sleep for a recent surgery. However, MDs to have more education.

Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.

4 years undergrad with requirements in science. Calc, microbiology, physics, etc.

*** Maybe, maybe not. Plenty of medical schools do not require an undergrad degree. A physician may have as little as two years of pre medical school college. In my state we have a program for great candidates that guarantees them admission to medical school after only two years of college.

One other thing not mentioned but I think should be. That 2-4 years of college and 4 years of medical school may well have been done in Uganda, Russia or some other country with very different standards than the USA. All CRNAs are trained at American or Canadian schools, at least for the CRNA part of their education.

One thing I have always wondered. If so many physicians wish to limit the practice of anesthesia to physicians only, why do so many of them refuse to practice in rural and under served areas? Without CRNAs the little local hospital near my home would not be able to preform surgery at all.

Specializes in cardiac, ICU, education.
In my state we have a program for great candidates that guarantees them admission to medical school after only two years of college.

You are from Wisconsin. Which med school only requires 2 years??? MCW or UW?

All CRNAs are trained at American or Canadian schools, at least for the CRNA part of their education.

Same for residents. All American anesthesiologists have to do their residency in America as well. A CRNA can still do their undergrad in another country. No difference.

A

Specializes in cardiac, ICU, education.

Again, just saying that CRNA's have less school. Not a big deal, just the facts.

However, it is more than the "Doctors BYS" website gives them credit for. So I posted on their blog that they needed to do more research and that their facts are, in fact, wrong. I referred them to the AANA website for further information, however and surprisingly (sarcasm), my post was removed.

Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.

you are from wisconsin.

*** no, i am not from wisconsin. i happen to live in wisconsin at the moment but not from here.

which med school only requires 2 years??? mcw or uw?

*** i don't know about mcw, but uw (like many us and international schools) has an early admission program for high school seniors that allows those accepted to graduate from medical school in 6 years after high school.

same for residents. all american anesthesiologists have to do their residency in america as well.

*** ya, everybody knows that. however the website in questions does go on and on about the number of years of college.

a crna can still do their undergrad in another country.

*** yes, as i indicated.

no difference.

*** a matter of opinion.

Specializes in cardiac, ICU, education.
I don't know about MCW, but UW (like many US and international schools) has an early admission program for high school seniors that allows those accepted to graduate from medical school in 6 years after high school.

Yes, but I think that defeats the argument.

There are some candidates ( 130, they take classes like multivariable calculus and and linear algebra and getting bussed to the local university junior year because their school does not provide a high enough education for them. Furthermore, most of these fast-track candidates end up finishing their BS in med school.

Medical schools not requiring geniuses to finish their BS is a reasonable trade. Originally you made it sound like an above average students could just bypass a BS to go to medical school which is not the case at all.

Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
Yes, but I think that defeats the argument.

There are some candidates ( 130, they take classes like multivariable calculus and and linear algebra and getting bussed to the local university junior year because their school does not provide a high enough education for them. Furthermore, most of these fast-track candidates end up finishing their BS in med school.

Medical schools not requiring geniuses to finish their BS is a reasonable trade. Originally you made it sound like an above average students could just bypass a BS to go to medical school which is not the case at all.

*** You stated that a physician had 4 years of college and then 4 years of medical school. I corrected you. It is a fact that a physician standing before you may, or may not have an undergrad degree. Indian physicians, trained in India are not required to have an undergrad degree. In addition several off shore medical school like USIU do not require an undergrad degree. In the case of the BM/BS (Bachelor of Medicine / Bachelor of Surgery. there are residents walking all over my hospital with this degree) grads they may have as little as 5 years college after high school. You can read about it here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bachelor_of_Medicine,_Bachelor_of_Surgery

So it is entirely possible that an anesthesiologists may in face have FEWER years (5) or the same (6) of college education than the typical CRNA with a masters degree (6+). Of course the anesthesiologist will also have an intern year plus three years of residency vs the CRNA who has at least one and more likely 2-5 years as an independent practitioner ICU nurse.

Specializes in cardiac, ICU, education.
So it is entirely possible that an anesthesiologists may in face have FEWER years

Possible but highly unlikely, especially with the competitiveness. I have never met an anesthesiologist without a Bachelors.

I do have 2 CRNA's I work with that were not required to do a Masters Degree. They graduated years ago with a BSN and learned on the job. Now a BSN,MSN is required, but it is very possible to work with CRNA's who don't have a Masters degree.

And if you want to talk about offshore medical schools, than talk about foreign CRNA schools. We could do this all day. According to the AMA http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/education-careers/becoming-physician.page undergraduate degree is required.

Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.

possible but highly unlikely, especially with the competitiveness.

*** yes you are right. however the highly competitive nature of anesthesia residencies is a fairly recent development. it didn't used to be that way.

i have never met an anesthesiologist without a bachelors.

*** you must work with mostly american physicians. i work with mostly foreign trained physicians from all kinds of countries from the uk, russia, india, uganda and a dozen more.

.

i do have 2 crna's i work with that were not required to do a masters degree. they graduated years ago with a bsn and learned on the job. now a bsn,msn is required, but it is very possible to work with crna's who don't have a masters degree.

*** nope, the masters wasn't requires until 1997. i very much doubt that they "learned on the job". they must have attended some sort of anestesia program. the chief crna (he is a fishing buddy of mine) at the medical center across the street from one of the hospitals where i work doesn't have any sort of degree, not even an associates. he graduated from a hospital based diploma rn program and then attended an 18 month certificate course in anesthesia from a catholic hospital in 1969.

and if you want to talk about offshore medical schools, than talk about foreign crna schools.

*** i am not aware of any, except in canada and porto rico. could you please name a few?

we could do this all day. according to the ama http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/education-careers/becoming-physician.page undergraduate degree is required.

*** somebody better tell them that there are a ton of foreign trained physicians without undergrad degrees currently practising n the usa, and more starting residencies every year. the link you posted is an information link for american high school students who wish to became a doctor, not a comprehensive list of every possible path the a medical license.

man you really hate to be corrected.

Specializes in cardiac, ICU, education.
I am not aware of any, except in Canada and Porto Rico. Could you please name a few?

http://ifna-int.org/ifna/page?69

Right hand side of page

Man you really hate to be corrected.

No, not at all. I just hate the animosity between CRNAs and MDs. I think we look quite sad when we say "we are just as well trained" and "we nurses know more" about medicine than MD's. Sometimes that is the case, but we are just as guilty of showing very little respect as they are.

Not implying that you are saying that, but I hear it all too often and it sounds like we are the jealous little brother/sister. Nursing is different and as much as it pains me to say it (I am getting my PhD) medicine has really been the forefront of education and research, and nursing is a distant second.

We just don't have the funding or the resources that medicine has. We have a minimum requirement of 2 years for a degree and then wonder why physicians don't take us seriously when we say we know just as much as them. American physicians are the best trained physicians in the world. Yes, some of them have a God complex and it is frustrating. But when we respect their education and intelligence, we will be able to focus on our own to make it better.

Living in Wisconsin I am sure you heard of Aurora. There was a lot of animosity in a couple of the hospitals that had CRNA's (not Baycare, the Aurora in Eastern Wisconsin.) Guess what? Aurora no longer employs CRNA's. It is now a totally run physician group, as you know Aurora is the number one employer in the state. I hate seeing when we can't come together that we are eliminated.

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