Air Force

allnurses Guide · Jan 17, 2014

Okay, I am now learning that it is very competitive. I am at a GREAT program. What are some ways to make myself a competitive applicant in the AF?

Not to dash your hopes, but compared to the military NA programs most civilian NA programs do not have the same high caliber of programs at producing independent CRNAs.

The best thing you can do at this point is do well in school, make a good impression with your instructors/preceptors, and get good references.

manusko · Jan 18, 2014

You can correct if I am wrong but I pretty sure that does not apply to entering the military. The contract would be subsequently be voided as far as requiring so much time before quitting. You have to also keep in mind it is taking lots of military applicants 12+ months to get in and then you may still have to wait around for a few more months for officer training slot.[/quote']
Not familiar with that situation. Just when someone tries to leave without proper notice to another civilian job. I have seen others leave jobs when they enter the military but not upper leek providers so I am sure you are correct.

bradleyclose · Jan 18, 2014

I would agree with you, but VCU has been the top NA school in the country for 5 years. The reason why the military school is ahead on the list is due to alphabetical order. I am confident in my skills and know that I will be an independent provider. I respect the military schools, but there is much to consider (especially why any how the schools are ranked). Thanks for the input, it really helps.

as1013 · Jan 18, 2014

Besides considering the average number of clinical hours, cases, and clinical rotation units, in your opinion what other factors should a potential NA student consider in a NA school? Is there anything in particular to focus on to ensure the school will prepare you to be an independent provider?

I've looked at the US News rankings of best schools but just wondering what current NAs and NA students feel about the topic?

jwk · Jan 18, 2014

It is illegal for an employer to discriminate against someone based on military status, but it happens frequently.
Getting a job after graduation is more important than telling a future employer that you may or may not being joining the military.
JWK why don't you tell us how you handled the process of joining the military as a commissioned officer with the months to sometimes years of processing time. I would love to hear all about your military experience as an commissioned officer.

It's not discrimination based on military status. It's based on a track record of being less than honest. It wouldn't apply just to military people - anyone that does that would be treated the same way - which is what I already said.

As noted previously - why can't you just have a discussion without making things personal? Did I attack you in this thread? No. You never miss a chance to ridicule and belittle everyone that doesn't march lock-step with you. Why is that?

bradleyclose · Jan 18, 2014

First off, consider what the US News rankings mean: nothing (I know I argued it earlier). Those rankings are based on accreditation and then they take surveys and have each of the schools administration fill them out based on other schools they have visited or observed. It is 90% subjective. However, with some schools in the news lately because of poor judgement, they deserve to be at the bottom.

You need to look at the faculty. Are they tenured professors with years and experience, both didactically and clinically and still have the DRIVE to learn? Or are they graduates that did well and were invited back to teach. Look at the rigor of the basic courses (you want them to be difficult): physiology, pharmacology, and chemistry. Look at the sites where they go. Sometimes when the sites have anesthesia residents, you are NEVER in a room by yourself so your quick judgement skills are halted. Things of this nature that may be hard to find are some good indicators. Most important, you are the best indicator. If an ICU nurse just does something b/c that is what the order is and does not know the physiology, physics, and pharmacology behind it, then that is a poor indicator. EVERYTHING you do, ask yourself 'Why I am doing this?" (even for simple things like, why did I grab THAT syringe (think about physics and pressure), why is the HOB at 30 degrees, why and how is the pulse oximeter the most important assessment finding tool ever invented?).

Just some ideas, haha.

allnurses Guide · Jan 18, 2014

I would agree with you, but VCU has been the top NA school in the country for 5 years. The reason why the military school is ahead on the list is due to alphabetical order. I am confident in my skills and know that I will be an independent provider. I respect the military schools, but there is much to consider (especially why any how the schools are ranked). Thanks for the input, it really helps.

VCU is considered an excellent school. The military program is ranked higher because of reputation not d/t anything tangible.

You should a have a decent chance as long as there are open slots. I did hear the AF no longer has HPSP slots for NA students though. I was told this d/t the AF starting the direct accession to NA school program.

allnurses Guide · Jan 18, 2014

Besides considering the average number of clinical hours, cases, and clinical rotation units, in your opinion what other factors should a potential NA student consider in a NA school? Is there anything in particular to focus on to ensure the school will prepare you to be an independent provider?
I've looked at the US News rankings of best schools but just wondering what current NAs and NA students feel about the topic?

If you are ready to work independently right after graduation including doing all your own blocks, CVLs, pull solo call then you have probably have picked a good program.

US News has more to do with a reputation contents than anything else.

allnurses Guide · Jan 18, 2014

It's not discrimination based on military status. It's based on a track record of being less than honest. It wouldn't apply just to military people - anyone that does that would be treated the same way - which is what I already said.
As noted previously - why can't you just have a discussion without making things personal? Did I attack you in this thread? No. You never miss a chance to ridicule and belittle everyone that doesn't march lock-step with you. Why is that?

Would you honestly hire someone that said they were waiting to get into the military? If a person needs a job after graduation there is absolutely nothing wrong with not mentioning you may or may not be going into the military. It is not illegal. Most of the time as I have already mentioned you will have months of waiting to find out that you got in the military and often a couple of months before going to commissioned officer training.

Why do you insist on hanging around a CRNA board? You have no clue about the process of becoming an AF CRNA. You have obviously never worked solo. You have never worked as a military provider. The only time you give advice it is from a limited ACT perspective and/or in lock step with the ASA, so you tell me why I feel the need to refute advice from an AA on a CRNA board. I do not spend my time hanging out on AA boards trying to stir things up, but it seems you spend the majority of your time posting on one CRNA board or another. I am not attacking you. I am refuting the need of the AA profession or the use advice from someone in that profession for someone looking to be an independent/military CRNA when the AA profession does not allow someone to be either independent or a military anesthesia provider.

allnurses Guide · Jan 18, 2014

First off, consider what the US News rankings mean: nothing (I know I argued it earlier). Those rankings are based on accreditation and then they take surveys and have each of the schools administration fill them out based on other schools they have visited or observed. It is 90% subjective. However, with some schools in the news lately because of poor judgement, they deserve to be at the bottom.
You need to look at the faculty. Are they tenured professors with years and experience, both didactically and clinically and still have the DRIVE to learn? Or are they graduates that did well and were invited back to teach. Look at the rigor of the basic courses (you want them to be difficult): physiology, pharmacology, and chemistry. Look at the sites where they go. Sometimes when the sites have anesthesia residents, you are NEVER in a room by yourself so your quick judgement skills are halted. Things of this nature that may be hard to find are some good indicators. Most important, you are the best indicator. If an ICU nurse just does something b/c that is what the order is and does not know the physiology, physics, and pharmacology behind it, then that is a poor indicator. EVERYTHING you do, ask yourself 'Why I am doing this?" (even for simple things like, why did I grab THAT syringe (think about physics and pressure), why is the HOB at 30 degrees, why and how is the pulse oximeter the most important assessment finding tool ever invented?).
Just some ideas, haha.

I will add that the school should have rotations through independent CRNA sites and/or military sites. You should come out of school proficient enough to be able to work by your self from day one. You should be able to perform your own PNBs, CVLS, your own independent preop assessments (this one drives me nuts when SRNAs haven't got to do these during school), be proficient at neuraxial anesthesia, and be able to pull solo call.

I will say this about the US News ranking system when a school is number 1 the system is great according to that school but when they fall below number 1 then all you hear from the school is how the system is nothing more than just a subjective popularity contest. It is funny I listened to the Army program members say this when they were not number 1, but as soon as they were number 1 they started plastering the US News ranking everywhere...

jwk · Jan 18, 2014

Would you honestly hire someone that said they were waiting to get into the military? If a person needs a job after graduation there is absolutely nothing wrong with not mentioning you may or may not be going into the military. It is not illegal. Most of the time as I have already mentioned you will have months of waiting to find out that you got in the military and often a couple of months before going to commissioned officer training.
Why do you insist on hanging around a CRNA board? You have no clue about the process of becoming an AF CRNA. You have obviously never worked solo. You have never worked as a military provider. The only time you give advice it is from a limited ACT perspective and/or in lock step with the ASA, so you tell me why I feel the need to refute advice from an AA on a CRNA board. I do not spend my time hanging out on AA boards trying to stir things up, but it seems you spend the majority of your time posting on one CRNA board or another. I am not attacking you. I am refuting the need of the AA profession or the use advice from someone in that profession for someone looking to be an independent/military CRNA when the AA profession does not allow someone to be either independent or a military anesthesia provider.

Actually, if someone came in and was honest and said up front "I'm waiting for a military appointment", we would probably hire them if we had an opening, and since we have a locum tenens division, that would probably be where they would be placed. Haven't you heard of that "honesty is the best policy" concept?

Most people on this board have no clue about being an Air Force CRNA. I wasn't speaking to that point - only to the point about lying to a potential employer about your intentions. That is not unique to CRNA's - or AA's, MD's, or the kid next door that wants to go flip burgers after school.

Turn it around - what would you think of someone who jumps through all the hoops to become a CRNA in the armed forces, runs through all the applications and background checks, delaying or possibly dissuading others by taking up a slot in the application process, and just as they're ready to take their oath, takes a better job in a non-military position. And then decides after a few months or a year, "Nah, maybe I should have taken the military slot". Would he be welcomed back with open arms, or would he be looked at as "you had your shot and blew it"?

Ultraposh · Jan 18, 2014

hey bradleyclose, how is it that you will go from msn to dnap in 3 months? thanks