Any GEPN Yale CNM out there?

midwifetobe85 · Feb 11, 2013

Hi Everyone,
I'm applying to CNM school and I was hoping to connect with Yale alumni who are CNM to see how you found the program. I have heard mixed things about the MSN at Yale but I haven't heard anything specifically regarding the midwifery route.
Thanks
Emkay

Hi Emkay!

I also just applied for a CNM program too! I chose Frontier in the end because everyone has spoken SO highly of it and I really like their emphasis on out if hospital birth.

I actually spoke in depth with a girl who graduated from Yale's midwifery program last year. She didn't do the nursing year though, just the two midwifery years. She felt it was definitely a strong program, but that it was heavily weighted toward the academic/scholarly/research end of things and a light on clinical experiences. (Makes sense, it IS Yale.)

She told me that she had a friend who had just graduated from SUNY Downstate (an excellent program) and that her friend had many more clinical opportunities and experiences than she did.

Personally, considering the expense I would far prefer more clinical than research experience. I interviewed and was accepted at SUNY Downstate and had a wonderful experience meeting the midwives. (The admissions office is a MESS though). But I really wanted to attend but chose not to because I'm really not a city person.

Where Else are you thinking of applying? I've looked into just about every program. Maybe I can help?

EmmKay · Feb 12, 2013

Hi Fellow Birth Junkie,

My restriction is that I need to do a direct entry program as I do not have a nursing degree- so Frontier is not an option for me. If I don't get into a direct entry CNM program like Yale, then I'll have to look at doing a ABSN in Boston where I am based and then figuring out what to do for the CNM portion. I couldn't handle living in NY, esp cost wise as I have a family....

How hard was it for your to find a preceptor for Frontier? They told me I would have to find my own and I'm not even sure I could do that!

Congratulations on being on the way to midwifery!

EMily

EmmKay · Feb 12, 2013

Also- at the risk of being boo-ed of the forum- I don't actually want to be a nurse. I very specifically want to be a nurse midwife. So going a ABSN route kind of freaks me out to be honest....does that make any sense?

elkpark · Feb 12, 2013

Also- at the risk of being boo-ed of the forum- I don't actually want to be a nurse. I very specifically want to be a nurse midwife. So going a ABSN route kind of freaks me out to be honest....does that make any sense?

Umm, nurse midwives are nurses. Direct entry programs are basically an accelerated BSN program attached to an MSN program -- you will have to complete a year or so of basic nursing education, including didactic coursework and clinical experience in all the major domains (med surg, OB, peds, psych) in a direct entry MSN program, so it's more or less "six of one, half dozen of the other" whether you do a straight direct entry program, or an ABSN and then a traditional MSN program. In order to be a CNM, you'll have to be educated and licensed as a "regular" RN, regardless of the route you take to get there. :)

midwifetobe85 · Feb 13, 2013

Hi Fellow Birth Junkie,
My restriction is that I need to do a direct entry program as I do not have a nursing degree- so Frontier is not an option for me. If I don't get into a direct entry CNM program like Yale, then I'll have to look at doing a ABSN in Boston where I am based and then figuring out what to do for the CNM portion. I couldn't handle living in NY, esp cost wise as I have a family....
How hard was it for your to find a preceptor for Frontier? They told me I would have to find my own and I'm not even sure I could do that!
Congratulations on being on the way to midwifery!
EMily

Hi Emily! How funny, I'm also in Boston! I know exactly what you're talking about. While, yes, CNMs are also nurses, the role of a midwife is very different than the role of a nurse or an NP. In nearly every other country, including Canada and the UK, midwives are only trained in midwifery not nursing too. And to be honest, I think that's a better approach. The skills a nurse brings to midwifery are certainly valid, but I believe the education could be much more streamlined and focused on the information and skills relevant to the profession. A graduate entry program like Yale's is three years. The first year covers general nursing which includes a lot of unnecessary content (to midwifery) like trach care. In the UK and Canada it's three straight years of material specific to midwifery. And I've met plenty of excellent CNMs who wholeheartedly agree.

Anyway, as you probably can tell, I too did not actually want to be a nurse. I chose an ABSN to be followed by the MSN because it was ultimately less expensive. (I did my ABSN at Binghamton U.) I definitely considered Yale but is SO expensive and I've heard they're not generous w aid. Plus, as I said apparently they're also a little light on the clinical experience.

I would have considered doing L&D, but its not really an easy option for new grads. So, Ive applied directly to midwifery school, which is really where I want to be anyway. So in a way, this approach isn't really any different from the GEPN, it just involves the hassle of another app in between.

And I hear you about NY...that's why I turned down the offer from Downstate, I just couldn't stand the idea of living there.

I'm not attending Frontier yet -(fingers crossed) I'd start in May. So I can't say for sure regarding a preceptor. But I spoke with their regional coordinator who felt I wouldn't have a problem. I've heard the areas where students have issues locating a preceptor include rural areas where there aren't enough CNMs (not a issue for Boston) and areas where there is a local CNM program to compete with (also not an issue).

Do you have doula, childbirth educator, or lactation consultant/educator experience? That's the one thing about Frontier. You can apply without nursing experience but have to have other experience in a birth-related field. If not, I would definitely recommend going for one simply because regardless of what you do it will be good experience and will look good on your résumé.

There are other distance options and I believe at least one of them does not require any prior nursing experience. Take a look- http://www.midwife.org/rp/eduprog_options.cfm?id=7

Hopefully this was helpful!

elkpark · Feb 13, 2013

In nearly every other country, including Canada and the UK, midwives are only trained in midwifery not nursing too. And to be honest, I think that's a better approach. The skills a nurse brings to midwifery are certainly valid, but I believe the education could be much more streamlined and focused on the information and skills relevant to the profession.

There are non-nurse midwifery programs in the US -- people who don't want to be nurses are welcome to pursue that path.

midwifetobe85 · Feb 13, 2013

There are non-nurse midwifery programs in the US -- people who don't want to be nurses are welcome to pursue that path.

Seriously elkpark? There's no need to be passive aggressive and you don't need to take it personally. I was not making any comments on the value, validity or importance of the nursing profession. I think it's incredibly honorable work. But, the American model of midwifery education which was created in the last hundred years (at Frontier no I might add) is a unique response to the profession nearly having been eradicated at the beginning of the 20th century. There is nothing wrong with saying that I prefer the British model.

I chose nurse midwifery over the CPM because the CPM is not well supported, as I'm sure you know. It's illegal in half the states and you can only attend home births. While home birth midwifery is a future goal, I also want to work with a varied population of women and in health clinics here and abroad and the CNM will allow me to do that. I did look into foreign education, but unfortunately our system does not acknowledge their credentials.

I think it's unfortunate that you feel you have to stoop to passive aggressive remarks.

elkpark · Feb 14, 2013

I did not intend to be passive-aggressive; since no one had mentioned non-nurse midwifery options, I didn't know if you and the OP were aware of them. I didn't take anything personally, and didn't mean any offense.

midwifetobe85 · Feb 14, 2013

I did not intend to be passive-aggressive; since no one had mentioned non-nurse midwifery options I didn't know if you and the OP were aware of them. I didn't take anything personally, and didn't mean any offense.[/quote']
Ok, my apologies than. I misread your tone. I've encountered a lot of resistance to this subject in the past and perhaps that influenced my interpretation. Sorry about that.

queenanneslace, ADN, MSN, APRN, CNM · Feb 15, 2013

There are technically *two* direct-entry midwifery options in the US. The AMCB-certified CM and the NARM certified CPM.

Just to confuse this issue thoroughly.

I would personally LOVE it if more states would recognize the CM credential. I think that route is appealing to many potential midwives - and completing an RN program appears to be a deterrent (not saying good or bad) to many would-be CNMs.

It's my belief that if CMs were recognized and licensed in more states, more aspiring midwives would take this route. I also think practicing CPMs would consider this route as well. I know many practicing CPMs that want to provide a broader scope of care and be better integrated in the health care system. That nursing degree is seen as a considerable obstacle for some.

trauerweidchen · Feb 16, 2013

There are technically *two* direct-entry midwifery options in the US. The AMCB-certified CM and the NARM certified CPM.
Just to confuse this issue thoroughly.
I would personally LOVE it if more states would recognize the CM credential. I think that route is appealing to many potential midwives - and completing an RN program appears to be a deterrent (not saying good or bad) to many would-be CNMs.
It's my belief that if CMs were recognized and licensed in more states, more aspiring midwives would take this route. I also think practicing CPMs would consider this route as well. I know many practicing CPMs that want to provide a broader scope of care and be better integrated in the health care system. That nursing degree is seen as a considerable obstacle for some.

The problem is really political (at least from what I have read); the CM credential is seen by some as a break of faith between the ACNM and NARM, a way to circumvent or subvert the CPM credential. I personally think there's room for all types of midwives, and would like to see a university-level direct entry program that creates midwives who are qualified to work both in and out of hospitals, organized much like some overseas midwifery educational systems. (Sort of like the GEPN program, but more specialized and available at universities all over the country.) That seems like a pipe dream for the time being, however.