Calif RN disagrees with CNA in many ways. Am I alone? - page 4

Hello! I am new to this site but felt compelled to ask the question. Am I the only RN in Calif that disagrees with CNA's "teamster tactics" regarding important health care and nursing issues? These... Read More

  1. by   Nancy2
    Interested persons may want to check out these web sites:
    notinourhouse.org, and stopunions.com. they are both done by employees and have a lot of information for people asking questions about CNA ( and SEIU ) Not everyone thinks unions are the answer....
  2. by   Sheri257
    Quote from Nancy2
    Interested persons may want to check out these web sites:
    notinourhouse.org, and stopunions.com. they are both done by employees and have a lot of information for people asking questions about CNA ( and SEIU ) Not everyone thinks unions are the answer....
    Ok ... now that I've looked at these websites, I'm more confused than ever.

    If you look at the stopunions.com site, for example, there's this page called "The Math" where they compared how much people would make under a CNA contract versus no CNA contract at all.

    http://www.stopunions.com/the_math.htm

    By their own accounting, RNs would still have made more money with CNA than not, even taking into account union dues.

    Their argument is that it's "only" $1,300 to $1,400 more per year but, I find it fascinating that any anti-union site (with an obvious bias) would find any benefit to a CNA contract at all. Especially since they didn't account for the things like the tax deductibility of union dues which actually make the dues less expensive than they claim.

    So, again, I'm trying to figure out what's the problem here? Especially since even an anti-union website still found a net benefit? What's so horrible about that?

    It also looks like they have more of a problem with SEIU than CNA, and I don't blame them for that. I'm not a great fan of SEIU or other unions that aren't run by RN's. I've always believed that RNs should represent RNs.

    Last edit by Sheri257 on Apr 16, '05
  3. by   Nancy2
    Quote from lizz
    Ok ... now that I've looked at these websites, I'm more confused than ever.

    If you look at the stopunions.com site, for example, there's this page called "The Math" where they compared how much people would make under a CNA contract versus no CNA contract at all.

    http://www.stopunions.com/the_math.htm

    By their own accounting, RNs would still have made more money with CNA than not, even taking into account union dues.

    Their argument is that it's "only" $1,300 to $1,400 more per year but, I find it fascinating that any anti-union site (with an obvious bias) would find any benefit to a CNA contract at all. Especially since they didn't account for the things like the tax deductibility of union dues which actually make the dues less expensive than they claim.

    So, again, I'm trying to figure out what's the problem here? Especially since even an anti-union website still found a net benefit? What's so horrible about that?

    It also looks like they have more of a problem with SEIU than CNA, and I don't blame them for that. I'm not a great fan of SEIU or other unions that aren't run by RN's. I've always believed that RNs should represent RNs.

    I believe the point of the math is that the union did not deliver what it promised!!! And union dues are not entirely tax deductible. They go into the box on schedule A with scrubs and other stuff and the amount that is over 2% of your Adjusted Gross Income (including your spouse's income if you're married) is then deductible. For most people it is NOT deductible. That is a common misconception. You can find these rule on the IRS website.
    If all you found on that website was the "Do The Math" page, and you found no other reasons listed anywhere, why RNs would not want to be represented by a union that is headed by a teamster who pays her husband to do research for them and calls it science then I'm afraid you have already made up your mind and are not confused at all. Good Luck!
  4. by   JustMe
    I was there when the union took over CNA and disaffiliated from ANA. The union people (mostly Kaiser nurses--they have a very good communication network) told the membership a bunch of lies about ANA, got themselves elected to the Board, and then voted to disaffiliate from ANA. Now they are using my dues money to go to other states to try and get them to pull out of ANA as well. The question is always "what does ANA do for you?" If the nurses are not up-to-date about what ANA is doing in Washington, then they may wonder what ANA does for them. But I can testify to the hard work ANA does for bedside nurses, for ALL nurses, and does not deserve the flack it's getting from CNA.

    Yes, I still belong to CNA. I look at paying my union dues like paying my malpractice insurance--my dues are my insurance that someone will be on my side if I'm wrongfully terminated. But I don't participate in running the organization anymore. And I don't hesitate to explain to people how CNA is attempting to undermine the work of ANA.

    I have to give CNA credit for getting the ratio law passed, but their aggressive tactics are a turn-off for the general public. Overall, the public has little opinion of the activist tactics of any group. It is definitely more professional to work through the system. I belong to the ANA\Calif. and give my full support to ANA, a professional organization, rather than to a union.
  5. by   Sheri257
    Quote from CheriP.
    But I can testify to the hard work ANA does for bedside nurses, for ALL nurses, and does not deserve the flack it's getting from CNA.

    I have to give CNA credit for getting the ratio law passed, but their aggressive tactics are a turn-off for the general public.
    I have to disagree with a couple of points here:

    The ANA failed to get nurses out of the overtime regulation last year, which exempted certain professions, including nurses, from overtime pay. That doesn't impact California RN's much because this state has a strong overtime law but, it could seriously hurt RN's in states that don't have mandated overtime compensation. Police and fireman were able to get out of the regulation but, the ANA failed to do the same for nurses.

    Maybe the ANA doesn't deserve all the flack it's getting from CNA. But I was disappointed with their performance on the overtime issue.

    As far as the general public, Schwarzenegger's approval rating is down 20 points since CNA began their campaign and protests. If the general public was really "turned off" his approval rating would be up, not down.

    I don't think the general public has a problem with CNA.

    Last edit by Sheri257 on Apr 21, '05
  6. by   Sheri257
    Quote from Nancy2
    I believe the point of the math is that the union did not deliver what it promised!!!
    Ok. Where did the union not deliver what they promised? That page shows a net benefit and doesn't talk about the union not delivering (at least that I can see) so, if you have another reference or link, I'd love to see it.

    Quote from Nancy2
    And union dues are not entirely tax deductible. They go into the box on schedule A with scrubs and other stuff and the amount that is over 2% of your Adjusted Gross Income (including your spouse's income if you're married) is then deductible. For most people it is NOT deductible.
    True. Good point. Perhaps I should have been more specific.

    Quote from Nancy2
    If all you found on that website was the "Do The Math" page, and you found no other reasons listed anywhere, why RNs would not want to be represented by a union that is headed by a teamster who pays her husband to do research for them and calls it science then I'm afraid you have already made up your mind and are not confused at all. Good Luck!
    Huh? I'm not sure what you're talking about with the teamster. Could you post a link? And are you talking about SEIU or CNA?

    I am pro-union. But, believe or not, I'm also interested in understanding the reasons why some people find unions so objectionable.

    Last edit by Sheri257 on Apr 21, '05
  7. by   fergus51
    The ANA is very professional, I'll give them that. I just don't know how effective they are and I want results.
  8. by   JustMe
    Quote from lizz
    I have to disagree with a couple of points here:

    The ANA failed to get nurses out of the overtime regulation last year, which exempted certain professions, including nurses, from overtime pay. That doesn't impact California RN's much because this state has a strong overtime law but, it could seriously hurt RN's in states that don't have mandated overtime compensation. Police and fireman were able to get out of the regulation but, the ANA failed to do the same for nurses.

    Maybe the ANA doesn't deserve all the flack it's getting from CNA. But I was disappointed with their performance on the overtime issue.

    As far as the general public, Schwarzenegger's approval rating is down 20 points since CNA began their campaign and protests. If the general public was really "turned off" his approval rating would be up, not down.

    I don't think the general public has a problem with CNA.

    You have to remember that we have a Republican Congress. ANA is working as best they can within the system. ANA also took a giant step a few years ago and formed the UAN, the union for nurses within ANA. UAN represents a number of nurses in states where the state nursing association does not have a union arm. If nurses want overtime pay, they can organize under UAN and get contract language like California has.

    As far as Arnold is concerned, nurses aren't the only ones protesting his tactics. Teachers, police and firefighters are also campaigning against his waffling on a number of subjects. And that's why his approval rating is down. I don't think the general public has a problem with CNA per se, but I was totally embarrassed that they disrupted the conference recognizing accomplishments by women--there has to be a better way.

    By the way, do you belong to CNA? If you do, try asking them why they're spending your dues money on disrupting other states. They won't even recognize your question. I've already tried.
  9. by   JustMe
    Quote from fergus51
    The ANA is very professional, I'll give them that. I just don't know how effective they are and I want results.
    Do you belong to ANA? Are you active? Do you write your congressmen/women with information that is factual and shows common sense? If you want results from your organization, then participate!
  10. by   Nancy2
    As far as the general public, Schwarzenegger's approval rating is down 20 points since CNA began their campaign and protests. If the general public was really "turned off" his approval rating would be up, not down.

    I don't think the general public has a problem with CNA.

    [/QUOTE]

    I think we should have a poll on the public opinion of CNA when they do these polls on the governor
  11. by   fergus51
    Quote from CheriP.
    Do you belong to ANA? Are you active? Do you write your congressmen/women with information that is factual and shows common sense? If you want results from your organization, then participate!
    Not anymore. I did briefly as a new nurse back when I bought into the power of the ANA and the duty of every nurse to belong to her professional organization. After a while I became a little more practical. I saw the results of unions in Canada and here in the US. Now that I belong to CNA, I participate with them instead. I feel like they have much more ability to directly affect my working environment since that's how my contract is negotiated. Getting ratios passed sealed the deal for me. That was one of the main reasons I chose to move to California.

    ANA seems irrelevant to me. I know that isn't the pc answer, but I just don't see why I should spend my money on the ANA. Lobbying and all that sounds great, but I'm more concerned with my time at the bedside than what the ANA can't get done in Washington. I know, they would probably be more powerful if all nurses joined. But as it is, they represent a tiny minority.
  12. by   Sheri257
    Quote from Nancy2
    I think we should have a poll on the public opinion of CNA when they do these polls on the governor
    Actually, as far as I know, CNA doesn't do polls. The polls I was referring to were done or commissioned by other groups or, at least, that's what the newspapers are reporting.

    The governor's approval rating is down. This has been widely reported in the news so, again, I don't think people have a problem with CNA. Yes, teachers, firefighters and policemen have also been criticizing the governor, but CNA was out front and started the ball rolling, and they've gotten the most publicity.

    Last edit by Sheri257 on Apr 23, '05
  13. by   lindarn
    Quote from fergus51
    The ANA is very professional, I'll give them that. I just don't know how effective they are and I want results.
    I am a former resident of California, and feel qualified to answer this question.

    ANA has not done anything, that was the point of seceeding form the ANA. ANa did nothing for anyone, when Care Redesign took hold all over the country. Staffing was cut drastically, the profession has been de- skilled, and since then patient care and safety have sufferd dramatically. Where have you been?

    I also put blame on the Boards of Nursing for the selling off of our professional practice to the highest bidder. It is one thing to allow un-licensed assitive personnel to give bed baths, etc. It is quite another to allow them to take over a professional practice, like giving meds. If I decided that I wanted to do brain surgery, and took a 6 week class on the "how to's of doing it", I would think/hope that the AMA and the State Boards of Medicine would put a stop to it. Where is the ANA and the State Boards of Nursing? Why is it OK to dumb down RN profesisonal practice to unlicensed personnel, and not OK to dumb down the practice of medicine? Or for that matter Physical Therapy, or Occupational Therapy?

    Do you see my point? Their State Boards, and National Governing bodies (equivalent to the ANA), advocate for their members. They hold onto their professional practice like glue. Can you say that about the ANA? They abandoned the entire nursing profession with the upheaval that has ensued since then. I put full blame for the whole mess on the regulating agencies that oversee the practice of nursing, including, by the way, JACHO. I wish that ALL THE STATE NURSES ASSOCIATIONS would withdraw from ANA. That would send a message! Wouldn't it?

    Lindarn, RN BSN ,CCRN
    Spokane, Washington
    Cal State Long Beach BSN, 5/87

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