Anyone challenged the NCLEX? - page 2

The board allows anyone with > five years of advanced medical training (independent of a doctor) to challenge the NCLEX. Just wondering...... Read More

  1. by   gerry79
    My guess is that Califrnia, like many other states, wants there nurses to have degrees. This has been a hot topic on this site and many others. I feel that the state is trying to eleminate a potentially large pool of RNs
  2. by   Sheri257
    Quote from gerry79
    My guess is that Califrnia, like many other states, wants there nurses to have degrees. This has been a hot topic on this site and many others. I feel that the state is trying to eleminate a potentially large pool of RNs
    Eliminate a large pool of RNs? Or, making sure people know what they're doing and don't endanger patient safety? I tend to think it's more of the latter.

    So far, I've been pretty impressed with the BORN. Yes, the requirements are tough, but that also makes me proud to be a resident of this state.

  3. by   smk1
    what about the gen ed courses that RN's have to complete and the science prereq's? do army personnel already get these as well? If not then i would just wonder how you could sit for the nclex if those requirements have not been completed, as the RN is "supposed to know the why along with the what and how." (not saying that you don't but the big mantra they are always telling us in school is "this class will help you to understand _ fill in the blank")the RN education isn't just the 2 yrs of nursing its all the stuff that comes before as well (ADN as well as BSN) so if the BON is making all the other students spend money to take these courses how would it justify waiving the background education that is supposed to help fill in the "why". Seriously not meaning to be argumentative here, just wondering how this works?!
  4. by   gerry79
    Lizz, I agree with you about patient safety. It would be criminal to hand out licenses to any and everybody who watched a few first aid tapes and put on a couple of bandaides. A close friend who worked for the Cali BON (recently retired) stated that stastically military medics who obtained their license by challenging the boards had a lower rate of complaints against them (incompitency) than that of RN's trained via the traditional route, and the NCLEX pass rate for military trained medics was comparable to many traditional nursing programs.

    SMKOEPKE if I am not mistaken, 30 unit obtion RN's dont take all of the gen ed classes. The California BoN states on its application for licensure that other states may not honor 30 unit obtion RN licenses. It is my humble and unprofessional opinion the the nursing profession as a whole is trying to standardize the minimum amount of education needed to become an RN. I would not be surprised if within the next 5-10 years that BSN will be the only excepted means of becoming an RN. The state of New York is already toying with the idea.
  5. by   Sheri257
    Quote from gerry79
    I would not be surprised if within the next 5-10 years that BSN will be the only excepted means of becoming an RN. The state of New York is already toying with the idea.
    Wouldn't surprize me either, actually. Although what a mess that would be. There are only about 20 BSN programs in the state, while there are more than 70 ADN programs.

    Talk about limiting the supply of RNs. :chuckle

  6. by   gerry79
    That would be a huge mess!!! I have read about nursing falling behind other medical/allied health professionals in the minimum standard of education needed to enter the field. I heard that 40 years ago or so, to become a Pharmacists all that was needed was a certificate, same with physical therapist and certain other allied health careers which now require Bac or higher. I guess the notion is that with a higher degree of education, the higher the salary that can be commanded.
  7. by   CA CoCoRN
    Mike, I am in the city of LOSt ANGELeS.

    gerry79 said:
    30 unit obtion RN's dont take all of the gen ed classes. The California BoN states on its application for licensure that other states may not honor 30 unit obtion RN licenses. It is my humble and unprofessional opinion the the nursing profession as a whole is trying to standardize the minimum amount of education needed to become an RN. I would not be surprised if within the next 5-10 years that BSN will be the only excepted means of becoming an RN. The state of New York is already toying with the idea.


    Funny thing, I am currently with my ADN and will pursue, in the next year, getting my BSN. Depending on the school I go to (my alma mater or another college) it will take me 3 semesters or 4-5. I don't care. This is what I want. Even as I "only" have my ADN, I still believe that the standard for "Professional Registered Nursing" SHOULD be a BSN. I want this PROFESSION to have every bit the esteem and integrity that other professions have. Especially at the level of RN. Maybe I'm an elitist snob, but I don't believe nursing (RN) will ever have the compensation nor respect that it should have without such a requirement. In a hospital setting, esp, ICU/Critical Care and L&D, the RN is the closest thing to a physician that the patient is going to get at any given time, depending on the situation. As such, we are required to have advanced skill, assessment as well as implementation of such skill.
    I mean, heck, I've got TWO babies in the world who were officially named for me. Why?? Because, in the absence of the physician, nature nor the patient would wait, and I had to deliver the womens' babies. They realized it wasn't my job, but were grateful that I had the presence of mind and SKILL to know what I was doing and make what could have been a "mess" okay and safe for them. Not to mention the countless other (actually, counting, it's been about 32) deliveries I've performed because of maternal or physical factors.

    Nursing is STILL looked upon by many as a lowly occupation. Many laypersons don't see the skill and knowledge that goes along with what we do. Some even see us as hospital waitpersons, wearing little white hats and white uniforms....not realizing that we are the ones collaborating with the physicians and other disciplines in keeping/getting their loved ones alive or home to them.

    Having a higher standard of education may even standardize moreso the knowledge that one NEEDS to be successful as an RN. There are some new RNs on my unit whose educations I question because it seems that the things I learned in my education were TOTALLY skipped by their programs. Either that, or the nurses are not up to par. That being said, having a longer duration of study could also weed out those nurses who are simply choosing the field for the money (in those markets where we are amply compensated) and won't be dedicated. Yes, the nursing profession is desperate for nurses...but as a nurse, a proud RN, I do not want "others" coming into it who will only denigrate my profession.

    Gosh, I'm long winded, huh?
  8. by   Sheri257
    Well, since we've gotten a little sidetracked on the BSN issue, I'll add my two cents. I personally think it's more complicated than BSN versus ADN. A lot of it also depends upon the individual program.

    I too want to obtain my BSN, and generally think it's a great idea. But the program in my area isn't that great. Their NCLEX pass rate barely meets the state's minimum 70 percent requirement, and that's a good 15 percent below the state and national average. And, since I wouldn't obtain as much clinical experience in that program, I decided to go ADN and pursue my BSN later.

    I'm sure there are much better BSN programs in the state, but if I was forced to obtain a BSN right away, I'd also be forced into a program with less clinicals and a much lower NCLEX pass rate. Is that a good idea?

    I also suspect that one of the reasons this program isn't all that great is because it's an accelerated BSN, which is becoming more popular these days. Some accelerated BSN programs take only one year, whereas an ADN takes two years (not to mention ADN pre-reqs which, if they're anything like my program, can take another two years.)

    I can't help but wonder if NCLEX pass rates and other things like clinicals start to suffer when so much material is jammed into such an abbreviated time frame. And, it also begs the question, what is a BSN these days? Is a BSN really a BSN anymore, since it doesn't always involve four full years of education?

    I'm all for more educational requirements, actually. But sometimes you also have to look at the quality of the individual program and education, rather than just titles. Because when you do that, it becomes a lot more complicated when you're trying to answer the question of what is best.

    Last edit by Sheri257 on Apr 6, '04
  9. by   gerry79
    Excellent point Lizz! Accelerated BSN programs are becoming more popular. In my opinion, it can be viewed as just anther short cut to obtaining an RN license. So, more division in the ranks, Diploma, ADN, Accelerated BSN, BSN. How many other medical professions have such convoluted educational requirements towards lincensure. It must be brutal trying to cram at least 2 years of education into 1-1/2 years. I think that the accelerated programs would be great for Diploma, and AD nurses since the base knowledge is already there. With there being so many ways to obtain a nursing license, having a set standard may bring more respectability to the profession. I myself will be starting an ADN program soon and plan on obtaining a BSN shortly after, but must say that without the ADN program, my dreams of becoming a nurse would be just that, a dream.

    Gerry
  10. by   Sheri257
    Quote from gerry79
    Excellent point Lizz! Accelerated BSN programs are becoming more popular. In my opinion, it can be viewed as just anther short cut to obtaining an RN license. So, more division in the ranks, Diploma, ADN, Accelerated BSN, BSN. How many other medical professions have such convoluted educational requirements towards lincensure. It must be brutal trying to cram at least 2 years of education into 1-1/2 years. I think that the accelerated programs would be great for Diploma, and AD nurses since the base knowledge is already there.
    Gerry
    Yes, but from what I've read on this board, some of these accelerated BSN programs only require another college degree. It can be in a totally unrelated field ... no previous nursing education or experience required. Yet, you can obtain your BSN in just one year.

    So, it does make you wonder ...

  11. by   Alpha_RN
    Quote from MikeinSD
    The board allows anyone with > five years of advanced medical training (independent of a doctor) to challenge the NCLEX. Just wondering...
    I successfully 'challenged' the RN NCLEX in WV in 1993. I was an Army 91C.
    I have worked as an R.N. in different areas of nursing and am finally pursuing a BSN.

    I don not like the word 'challenge' because it demeans my Military training and experience. I prefer- Military Equivalency.

    Not just anybody who was a Military Medic can sit for the NCLEX.

    Sadly most States will not grant reciprocity, in spite of a supposed Nursing shortage that allows foreign Nurses to come to the States and work as R.N.s. some who can barely speak English and have little respect for our culture.

    Good luck to you.
  12. by   gerry79
    Alpha RN I believe that West Virginia is the only state that still allow military trainied Medics and Corpsman to challenge the board. I went to Navy IDC school in 98 with hopes of challenging the California board, but in 2000 California changed the rule and now only allow military medics and corpsman to challenge the LPN/LVN board. Are you saying that the only state that you can work in is West Virginia? I have one week to go before finishing my RN program, I had to take the conventional brick and mortar route to obtain my license.
  13. by   Alpha_RN
    Quote from gerry79
    alpha rn i believe that west virginia is the only state that still allow military trainied medics and corpsman to challenge the board. i went to navy idc school in 98 with hopes of challenging the california board, but in 2000 california changed the rule and now only allow military medics and corpsman to challenge the lpn/lvn board. are you saying that the only state that you can work in is west virginia? i have one week to go before finishing my rn program, i had to take the conventional brick and mortar route to obtain my license.
    yes gerry that is correct.

    i took my nclex in 1993. i hope to complete my bsn this year. so i've had a license as an r.n. for 13 years, and thirteen years of experience before getting my degree. and prior to that expericence as a medic and as an lpn.

    good to hear you are also finishing your degree.

    be proud of your service and don't allow anyone to denigrate the knowledge, skills and experience you gained as a corpsman as somehow substandard. it does enhance your ability to assess, plan, and implement care.

    after all military medics provide care for america's best under some of the most demanding conditions.

    my license says registered professional nurse, at the end of the day that is what matters.

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