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I had this random thought and was wondering y'all's opinion...

It's not something that's real serious, a bit humorous even but intriguing.

What if nurses with their doctorates were considered N.D.'s

John Smith N.D. CRNA

or something like that.

My point is that physicians go to a school of medicine and are therefore called medical doctors.

Nurses go to nursing school( terminal) and are therefore called nursing doctors? It's not a means to try and be equal with a physican so much as it is a way for those who've gone above and beyond to obtain their terminal degree to let clients know they have and help reassure the public APN's aren't glorified technicians.

Or something like that lol

I don't intend to offend with this post, sorry in advance if I did.

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Have you looked at any of the kazillion other threads here about this question? (Not this exact question, but the issue of nurses with doctorates being referred to as "Dr.") It gets discussed a lot.

"John Smith" would only put "ND" after his name if his school actually awarded an "ND" degree (MDs put "MD" after their names because that is the actual name of their degree, not because it's an abbreviation for "medical doctor"). I believe that some schools used to use that designation for their nursing doctorates (that weren't PhDs). There used to be a plethora of different names for non-PhD nursing doctorates -- part of the point of the DNP "push" is an effort to eliminate confusion and simplify to two degrees, the scholarly/academic PhD and the clinical/practice DNP.

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Specializes in ACNP-BC, Adult Critical Care, Cardiology.

The precursor to the practice doctorate now widely known as DNP were actually "ND" programs (Case Western is an example). AACN member schools sat down and decided on "DNP" because "ND" is already used as a degree in schools that offer Naturopathic Physician programs which awards the title of Doctor of Naturopathy (ND).

Doctor of Nursing Practice (DNP) Program: FPB School of Nursing at Case Western Reserve University

American Association of Naturopathic Physicians - notice that their professional association is also called AANP!

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The precursor to the practice doctorate now widely known as DNP were actually "ND" programs (Case Western is an example). AACN member schools sat down and decided on "DNP" because "ND" is already used as a degree in schools that offer Naturopathic Physician programs which awards the title of Doctor of Naturopathy (ND).

Doctor of Nursing Practice (DNP) Program: FPB School of Nursing at Case Western Reserve University

American Association of Naturopathic Physicians - notice that their professional association is also called AANP!

(Thanks for the info -- I was pretty sure there used to be "ND" degrees "out there" (back when there were a dozen or so different doctoral degrees in nursing ... :)))

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Well chit. Thanks for being so informative about it. Sure sounded cool :)

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And yes elk I have seen the numerous threads regarding the topic of what to call them. This one was different, that's why I posted it. Not to waste your time or more importantly, mine.

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Specializes in ACNP-BC, Adult Critical Care, Cardiology.
(Thanks for the info -- I was pretty sure there used to be "ND" degrees "out there" (back when there were a dozen or so different doctoral degrees in nursing ... :)))

Consequently, DNSc programs which were similar to PhD in Nursing programs have pretty much disappeared. Schools that used to offer DNSc have now transitioned to PhD.

Rush was adamant about the transition but later gave in: Why Rush will keep the DNSc. [J Prof Nurs. 2003 Jul-Aug] - PubMed - NCBI.

UCSF is now allowing DNSc alumni to convert to PhD:

UCSF Office of the Registrar - Nursing DNS to PhD Conversion

Yale is another one that had DNSc programs changed later to PhD

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Consequently, DNSc programs which were similar to PhD in Nursing programs have pretty much disappeared. Schools that used to offer DNSc have now transitioned to PhD.

Rush was adamant about the transition but later gave in: Why Rush will keep the DNSc. [J Prof Nurs. 2003 Jul-Aug] - PubMed - NCBI.

UCSF is now allowing DNSc alumni to convert to PhD:

UCSF Office of the Registrar - Nursing DNS to PhD Conversion

Yale is another one that had DNSc programs changed later to PhD

I'm aware of the sequence of events at Yale; I was there when they first started the DNSc.

I'm surprised by UCSF's action -- I've never heard of anyone being able to just switch a degree from one designation/classification to another (without having to complete some additional education/scholarship/whatever). Did the DNS students actually meet all the requirements for a PhD at the time they completed their DNS degrees, and, if so, why weren't they awarded PhDs in the first place? If not, how come they are just getting "given" PhDs without meeting the academic requirements every other PhD candidate has to meet. Hmmmm, very interesting ...

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Specializes in ACNP-BC, Adult Critical Care, Cardiology.

Not being a UCSF insider (just a clinician in their medical center)...I still managed to find the story behind the change and it is available in the public domain thanks to google. It's a good read if you care to know:

http://senate.ucsf.edu/2011-2012/i-gradc-01-12-12-agenda-at1.pdf

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Not being a UCSF insider (just a clinician in their medical center)...I still managed to find the story behind the change and it is available in the public domain thanks to google. It's a good read if you care to know:

http://senate.ucsf.edu/2011-2012/i-gradc-01-12-12-agenda-at1.pdf

Interesting read, but I'm still skeptical -- if the DNS students truly did meet all the academic/scholarly requirements of a PhD in the first place, why were they willing to, basically, get ripped off by the university in the first place, and why didn't the school just award them PhDs in the first place? The whole point, as it's been explained to me numerous times over the years in various places, of the "other" nursing doctorates (that focus on scholarship/research but aren't PhDs) is that those programs didn't (don't) meet the full requirements for PhDs -- if they did, they'd be PhDs ...

But, not trying to argue with you about it -- I realize it really has nothing to do with either of the two of us! :)

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Specializes in ACNP-BC, Adult Critical Care, Cardiology.

LOL...true. It sounded more like it was a political battle at the university level. UCSF is unique in that it's the only UC campus that only offers graduate degrees in the medical and health sciences. It doesn't offer undergrad programs (even in nursing). The university at the time felt that nursing wasn't a true scientific discipline worthy of a PhD hence the consolation price of a DNS. Sounds like a way for the university to apologize later and make up for their previous action. Other universities are doing the same if you read the entire article.

Sent from my iPhone using allnurses.com

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